Possible coup in Turkey

[Lexicus]

Great, sounds like he's getting set up for a very nice little bloodbath.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

But yeah, it's no mystery Erdogan doesn't give a crap about the Constitution, and wants to change it in order to have unchecked imperial powers. It's also no mystery that since much before the attempted coup Ergodan has been rounding up the opposition, and is not exactly tolerant of dissent.

Well please provide information where does he violate the constitution. You are claiming things to be true or actually to be "no mystery", but not giving any facts. The opposition are political parties and which party is he rounding up? He is intolerant to lies or critics which are direct insults which do not have any other purpose than just that.

Turkey is descending into Islamist autocracy, and that is obvious to the whole world now. Why do you think the whole planet became so critical of the Sultan? Some vast Jewish conspiracy?

Turkey is not descending into any autocracy, proof for that is the people who did go into action to stop the coup. And if anything than the government will have increased its support to above the 50% support it had already in the last elections in 2015 november.
Regarding to your Islamist point, the opposite is true. Muslims were discriminated for a long time in a country with more than 99% of its population being muslim. This happened due to the fact some rulers claimed they were protecting the secular state. Should the Quran be banned for a secular state? Should any form of education of Islam to the population be banned for a secular state? Should soldiers/officers be tracked for whether they are praying or not and if they do should it have negative effects on their careers as soldier/officer? Well that was the case in a long period of the so-called secular Turkey. It is actually now restoring the secularism from the point where previously it was oppressing muslims who where practicing their religion to a point with no discrimination towards muslims.

 

[luiz]

Maybe it was also Güllen who persecuted those poor Turkish Muslims, just like he downed the Russian jet and coordinated a military coup from rural Pennsylvania. Next thing you know Erdogan will admit the Armenian genocide was real, but it was actually carried out by Güllenists to stain the country's good image.

 

[chijohnaok]

Turkey's education ministry reportedly fires 15,200 for ties to failed coup

Erdogan previously fired a group of generals before the coup, and now since the coup fired even more.

He's now firing teachers and university deans.
He's firing policemen.
He's firing people in the religious affairs department.
He's muzzling the media.

Sounds as if he has taken a page of Stalin's "purge playbook".

 

[muhtesem insan]

let the quoting games begin!!!!

Really??? Ok I can understand that if you have nothing with religion, but at least do some research if you say things you don't know anything about. First sela is given in 3 different occasions:

1 hour before friday prayer to remember about it in every mosque,
if there is someone dead in one particular mosque of the neighborhood where the prayer will done for the dead
call for unity

That last occassion was the case during the coup attempt. So for your information it has nothing to do with Jihad. It was a call for unity!

Or I didn't want to bore people with unnecesarry details and did not mention friday and burial prayers.
And about this so called "call for unity". I think everyone in this forum is intelligent enough to what does a "call for unity" from mosques mean. Unity against whom?

Please provide source. Besides you are not giving any arguments why someone is to be trusted or not. That is really convincing.

I am the source. I heard him on live TV.

The plotters did require means to communicate to people that they had overthrowed the government. So they required it. Thats why they occupied the state television in the first place, remember. Also they used whatsapp to communicate with each others.

If you're staging a coup you need to disorient the government and show you're in control as soon as possible. Any TV channels against you must be shut down. Any chance to get people organised against coup must be stopped. And most efficient way to do this is control the communications. You have to cripple the communication for everyone else.
Yes they occupied the TRT but this is not 1980 that meant nothing.

You clearly are hoping for a coup. I mean why would someone expect a coup d'etat, and a proper one? This does sound that you would like a military regime or something... Weird...

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/expect
I expect a military coup yes, this is my political foresight not desire. And yes this last attemp was not a proper coup but badly planned mess.

 

[muhtesem insan]

Well please provide information where does he violate the constitution. You are claiming things to be true or actually to be "no mystery", but not giving any facts. The opposition are political parties and which party is he rounding up? He is intolerant to lies or critics which are direct insults which do not have any other purpose than just that.

His Palace is illegal, he was not qualified to be elected as president (he needed a bachelors degree and he couldn't proove that he has) He has removed immunity of all the MP's to presecute them, he stopped an corruption inquiry by removing the Attorneys....etc the list goes on.

Turkey is not descending into any autocracy, proof for that is the people who did go into action to stop the coup. And if anything than the government will have increased its support to above the 50% support it had already in the last elections in 2015 november.

He can get even 90% of the votes that does not mean he's right. No one claimed he didn't have popular support. All dictators had popular support.

Regarding to your Islamist point, the opposite is true. Muslims were discriminated for a long time in a country with more than 99% of its population being muslim. This happened due to the fact some rulers claimed they were protecting the secular state.

This i agree on some extent. But now non muslims, non sunni muslims (see Alevis) and secular sunni muslims are discriminated against. And some of the examples you've given did not happen.

Should the Quran be banned for a secular state?

this never happened.

Should any form of education of Islam to the population be banned for a secular state?

this never happened. Only an age restriction (it was 12 if i remember correctly) which i support.

Should soldiers/officers be tracked for whether they are praying or not and if they do should it have negative effects on their careers as soldier/officer?

This happened. And although it was wrong it prevented Gülen movement to gain influence in Military. Ironically this saved Erdoğan from last coup attempt.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Erdogan proposes to reinstate death penalty:



http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...-reinstate-death-penalty-160719015923935.html

Well, to be precise, in Russia there is no death penalty, but whatever.

In fact there is still a death penalty in Russia, but it is indefinitly suspended.

And now Erdogan is pushing to bring back the death penalty.

Good luck, Turkey. You're going to need it.

He doesn't propose it. He is ready to accept it if that is the will of the people and parliament. Litteraly stating from that source: "Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said he is ready to reinstate the death penalty if the Turkish people demand it and parliament approves the necessary legislation." It requires a change in the constitution and thus either 60% in parliament and approval in referendum or two third of the parliament in favor of the change.

Besides the opposition parties CHP and MHP are considering it too:
http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2016/07/19/gulenist-coup-perpetrators-no-different-than-daesh-pkk-terror-organizations-mhps-bahceli-says
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/mhp-leader-suggests-death-sentence-en-2218130/en.htm
For CHP I couldn't find a English link, you will have to use google translate:
http://www.cnnturk.com/turkiye/kilicdaroglundan-idam-yorumu-getirsinler-bakalim

If death penalty will be enacted it does require support of the opposition anyways.

 

[Commodore]

Turkey is not descending into any autocracy, proof for that is the people who did go into action to stop the coup. And if anything than the government will have increased its support to above the 50% support it had already in the last elections in 2015 november.

Just because a government has popular support doesn't mean it isn't autocratic. Plenty of dictators throughout history have also had popular support. It didn't make them any less of a dictator though.

Regarding to your Islamist point, the opposite is true. Muslims were discriminated for a long time in a country with more than 99% of its population being muslim.

Not allowing you to force your religious views on others isn't discrimination.

 

[red_elk]

In fact there is still a death penalty in Russia, but it is indefinitly suspended.

If you replaced in your sentence "in fact" with "formally", I would agree.
In fact death penalty in Russia is not applied anymore for about 20 years.

 

[luiz]

The Sultan is now seeking the resignation of all the deans of public and private Universities in Turkey. Clearly they're all Gullenist spies. This Gullen fellow is turning out to be the greatest super-villain in history or fiction.

Turkey Extends Purge to Universities, Asking All Deans to Go

Turkey’s highest education authority asked heads of university faculties across the country to resign, broadening the government purge that’s followed Friday night’s failed coup. The currency plummeted.
Turkey’s Council of Higher Education is seeking the resignation of 1,577 deans at state and private universities nationwide, state-run TRT reported. The channel did not give a reason for the decision, and calls to the educational body, known in Turkish as YOK, were not immediately returned.
The country also canceled the licenses of 21,000 private-school teachers, according to Yeni Safak. That brings the total of those suspended, fired, removed from jobs or stripped of professional accreditation to 59,628 in the wake of the bloody events of Friday night, according to Bloomberg calculations.
The lira subsequently surged past 3 to the dollar to within less than 2 percent of a record, as the government crackdown takes measures reminiscent of the 1980 coup, after which the Council of Higher Education was founded to help increase state control over education.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan clashed with academics earlier this year, when more than 1,000 of them signed a petition calling for peace in the southeast and criticizing the government’s handling of the state’s long-running battle with its Kurdish population centered there. Many ended up on trial, while others lost their jobs.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-purge-to-universities-asking-all-deans-to-go

So we've definitely passed the point where Erdogan even bothered hiding that he wants to be an autocrat.

 

[Bootstoots]

Was he ever hiding it before? I'm sure he had lists drawn up beforehand of everyone he wanted removed in the event of something like this, and as soon as he got the excuse he pounced on it.

 

[Lexicus]

I'm a bit nonplussed about luiz's sudden opposition to autocrats. My guess is if Erdogan seized sole power in the context of a political situation in which left-wing mass parties were demanding things like universal health care, luiz would be praising Erdogan as a firm hand rescuing the ship of state from bums and kids.

 

[luiz]

I'm a bit nonplussed about luiz's sudden opposition to autocrats. My guess is if Erdogan seized sole power in the context of a political situation in which left-wing mass parties were demanding things like universal health care, luiz would be praising Erdogan as a firm hand rescuing the ship of state from bums and kids.

Erdogan is a right-winger whose economic policies have for the most part been quite successful. The secular and democratic opposition to Erdogan comes mostly from leftists, and I support them even if I would probably disagree with their economic policies.

In the fantasy-land you inhabit, I should love him, because we're both right-wing villains.

In the real world you'll never see me praise any autocrat. I don't have pet dictators; people like Noam Chomsky and Jeremy Corbyn do.

 

[luiz]

Was he ever hiding it before? I'm sure he had lists drawn up beforehand of everyone he wanted removed in the event of something like this, and as soon as he got the excuse he pounced on it.

Yes that is what Occam's razor would suggest. But honestly, the hypothesis that he was warned of this coup before hand and then played the whole thing to seize dictatorial power seems more and more likely...

 

[Commodore]

I'm a bit nonplussed about luiz's sudden opposition to autocrats. My guess is if Erdogan seized sole power in the context of a political situation in which left-wing mass parties were demanding things like universal health care, luiz would be praising Erdogan as a firm hand rescuing the ship of state from bums and kids.

What was the point of this post other than to be a personal attack on luiz?

 

[Algeroth]

Did the purges in the army also affected "kemalists" or is Sultan just removing anybody that could be a gullenist?

 

[classical_hero]

This looks more and more like a false flag operation so Erdogan can get rid of anyone he deems as a threat to him. I wonder when he will go after those in Parliament?

 

[Bootstoots]

Yes that is what Occam's razor would suggest. But honestly, the hypothesis that he was warned of this coup before hand and then played the whole thing to seize dictatorial power seems more and more likely...

Also quite possible. I doubt it was entirely a false flag, but he could have had foreknowledge of it and allowed it to proceed while getting information from moles who were pretending to side with the coup so he could prepare the loyal parts of the armed forces and be whisked away to safety, as he was. My impression of Turkish conspiracy theories is that about a quarter of them are true, but people rarely find out definitively which ones are true and which ones are false. What actually happened here will probably be impossible to say for sure, at least while he's still in power.

 

[qwerty25]

Kinda interesting theres 14 ships unaccounted for just floating around [emoji14]

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[Commodore]

Kinda interesting theres 14 ships unaccounted for just floating around [emoji14]

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Oh great, now we are going to have pirates with actual warships and crewed with trained military sailors out there instead of the speedboat with the malnourished militiamen.