Possible science city strategy?

[caglejsc]

I was just thinking when I reading the strategy guide thread (which is giving great info) about the new function of the Library/Paper maker and how this function shaped our strategy.

Paper Maker: cost-80 Maint.-1 culture-0 effect: +1 science for every 2 citizen in thia city, +4 gold
Library: cost-80 Maint.-1 culture-0 effect: +1 science for every 2 citizens in this city

Since population plays such an important role in the library (see above) it implies the idea that once all required buildings are in your science city you could probably get away with farm spamming every tile. With some exceptions (Academies, Resources, Hills not adjacent to fresh water.)

It's actually encouraged now to grow your city bigger than the total number of tiles your working and specialist.

What does everybody think about this? Is this strategy viable or is there something I'm overlooking?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The primary limitation is happiness.

A science city basically relies on population, but once you have Rationalism, a
Trading Post gives 2 science... more than the 1.5 science you would get from an extra population supported by a farm. (and without the happiness issue)

So an Early Science city has a Library/Papermaker, and massive Farms, and you need significant happiness to support this city. (India would do well with an early science city)

If you get Rationalism, then the best Science city becomes a Mixed Science/Gold city with just enough farms to support working the terrain and the specialists, the rest goes to trade goods.

 

[caglejsc]

The primary limitation is happiness.

A science city basically relies on population, but once you have Rationalism, a
Trading Post gives 2 science... more than the 1.5 science you would get from an extra population supported by a farm. (and without the happiness issue)

So an Early Science city has a Library/Papermaker, and massive Farms, and you need significant happiness to support this city. (India would do well with an early science city)

If you get Rationalism, then the best Science city becomes a Mixed Science/Gold city with just enough farms to support working the terrain and the specialists, the rest goes to trade goods.

Do you think that rationalism will be all but required for every civ?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Do you think that rationalism will be all but required for every civ?

No, it will giv a civ the technological advantage...

But if a Civ has Theocracy +Piety they can maintain more happiness->more pop->more science
or Freedom letting them support more science specialists.

So civs without rationaism will be technologicaly behind... but probably not irrecoverably so.

 

[caglejsc]

No, it will giv a civ the technological advantage...

But if a Civ has Theocracy +Piety they can maintain more happiness->more pop->more science
or Freedom letting them support more science specialists.

So civs without rationaism will be technologicaly behind... but probably not irrecoverably so.

Thanks for the great feedback.

 

[Yakk]

Paper Maker is the Chinese UB, isn't it?

 

[Ahriman]

Yes. library that gives extra gold.

 

[caglejsc]

Patronage seems to be a viable option for science as-well.

Scholasticism: All Allied City-States grant you a research bonus equal to 33% of their own research.

Is there any requirements before adopting this?

 

[DalekDavros]

A science city basically relies on population, but once you have Rationalism, a
Trading Post gives 2 science... more than the 1.5 science you would get from an extra population supported by a farm. (and without the happiness issue)
.

Technically, the TP bonus is from Free Thought, not from the Rationalism branch. And Free Thought has Secularism (+2 science per specialist) as a pre-req, so farming to support specialists still might be worthwhile, especially with the policies that makes specialists eat less food and contribute less to unhappiness. After you run out of specialist slots, the TP looks better.

 

[remconius]

Managing happiness for a science city will be interesting as happiness is empire wide.

So you have one high food city focusing on science and growth. And you need several smaller cities that build happiness buildings for the empire. These cities can stay smaller and focus on production, gold or culture.

Not sure how it will work maintenance-wise, but could be viable.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Technically, the TP bonus is from Free Thought, not from the Rationalism branch. And Free Thought has Secularism (+2 science per specialist) as a pre-req, so farming to support specialists still might be worthwhile, especially with the policies that makes specialists eat less food and contribute less to unhappiness. After you run out of specialist slots, the TP looks better.

Free Thought is in the Rationalism Branch.

And I do agree that Farms for Specialists are beneficial.
The issue is Farms for just extra raw population. (which only give 1.5, instead of the 1.5+2 that a non science specialist would give with Secularism... or the 3+2+1.5 that the Science Specialist would give)

So you have one high food city focusing on science and growth. And you need several smaller cities that build happiness buildings for the empire. These cities can stay smaller and focus on production, gold or culture.

Not sure how it will work maintenance-wise, but could be viable.

Yes, the 'imperial happiness' means that the 'don't grow' may actually be used... having a city that you want to 'produce happiness' by building more buildings than it population needs to stay happy.

 

[12agnar0k]

Basically it can allow a civ with only a few cities but with high population to maintain the same rate of development as a huge empire, the game is centered around this idea, and it will end in a race to finish, who will win first, its not a one legged pony race anymore, the biggest empire wont necessarily win, can you perfect your strategy and beat the other civ's, find out on September 21'st.

 

[Sciguy001]

Max out rationalism and freedom to get a huge specialist city with tons of science from scientists as well as other specialists and from population. Also have your science city in the middle of a huge jungle

 

[caglejsc]

I'm worried I will not get to try any other branches if I'm always forced to play rationalism. I trust this will be balanced, but I'm having trouble seeing past the awesomeness of the rationalism branch.

 

[Marshall Thomas]

Yes, the 'imperial happiness' means that the 'don't grow' may actually be used... having a city that you want to 'produce happiness' by building more buildings than it population needs to stay happy.

I'm concerned about the realism of this. Why would a smaller city, on the other side of my country, building local "happiness" infrastructure make my far-away, large city happier? What could this be a reflection of historically?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm worried I will not get to try any other branches if I'm always forced to play rationalism. I trust this will be balanced, but I'm having trouble seeing past the awesomeness of the rationalism branch.

Well first of all you need to get to the renaissance first. and

Freedom gives more Specialists,
Honor gives you some good military advantages
Many SPs give you Happiness->more population->more science

 

[Sciguy001]

I'm concerned about the realism of this. Why would a smaller city, on the other side of my country, building local "happiness" infrastructure make my far-away, large city happier? What could this be a reflection of historically?

Two Words: Las Vegas

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm concerned about the realism of this. Why would a smaller city, on the other side of my country, building local "happiness" infrastructure make my far-away, large city happier? What could this be a reflection of historically?

Aso, realistically... "low happiness" does not cause a slowing growth rate

THe "Happiness" of Civ V is a population cap, at best it is how well you can keep people making babies.

 

[Marshall Thomas]

Aso, realistically... "low happiness" does not cause a slowing growth rate

THe "Happiness" of Civ V is a population cap, at best it is how well you can keep people making babies.

At certain points in the game, I wonder if it could reflect immigration as well. "Low happiness" causes people to leave, slowing your growth rate. High happiness encourages people to immigrate to your country.

I know this has nothing to do with gameplay mechanics. But immersion is very important to me.

 

[bernlin2000]

Sounds like a good strategy to me, you would only be limited by your empire's happiness and assuming that was a non-issue you could become a research machine very quickly. Farms will no longer be an improvement you HAVE to place just to keep your cities from starving: they actually can have a serious indirect effect on your city's research level.