I don't think he's saying he's using the HOF mod to play GOTM, just that he used the HOF mod for another game and that improved his play, so his GOTM game is going better.
Possible Use of HoF Mod for GOTM - now with POLL!
- Thread starter DaviddesJ
- Start date
I voted other. I don't care if the mod will be introduced or not and I don't care if it will be compulsory either. Each way I will probably continue playing GOTM as long as my spare time permits (which is by far the most serious issue in my GOTMing).
I just wonder whether the arguments regarding the savefile security are not too paranoid. I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
I just wonder whether the arguments regarding the savefile security are not too paranoid. I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
There are/will be tools that allow viewing/editing of the save file. On the other side of the coin, there are people that equate great performance with cheating. Having a little security counters that kind naysayer nicely. Not that I have ever had that problem, myself.horragoth said:I just wonder whether the arguments regarding the savefile security are not too paranoid. I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
Big Pig said:
Methos said:
Dianthus said:
Dianthus got it right
I played part of a test game for the GOTM(archipelago, rocky, low sea, but on prince) with the HOF mod, and while I haven't figured out how to use that autolog thingy, or any of the advisors other than the foreign one...it helped my GOTM game in that I learned better how to manage my foreign relations.
I just installed HOF mod in anticipation of using it for GOTM 9, and I have a question...
When I started a game (with bassicaly random settings, I just wanted to see the new features), I got a warning that this game was not valid for HOF entry, and to check the victory settings screen.
When I chech there I see 3 problems:
1. Balanced map is not alloed
2. Locked assets is required
3. "CRCs are missing. This game cant be used".
Now, 1&2 are self explanatory, and nothing to worry about, but I dont get 3. Can someone shed some light on this please?
When I started a game (with bassicaly random settings, I just wanted to see the new features), I got a warning that this game was not valid for HOF entry, and to check the victory settings screen.
When I chech there I see 3 problems:
1. Balanced map is not alloed
2. Locked assets is required
3. "CRCs are missing. This game cant be used".
Now, 1&2 are self explanatory, and nothing to worry about, but I dont get 3. Can someone shed some light on this please?
drkodos
Emperor
Jastrow said:
I had same issues. Turns out I initially installed it in the wrong file. As soon as I installed correctly in MODS file, it worked just fine.
The game apparently has TWO files named MODS.
Perhaps this could be the cause here as well.
horragoth said:I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
Rich. Thanks for the deep laughs.
Please. Have you been paying attention to what happens in the world at large? People kill their siblings and parents to garner things that hold less value than a civ game.
I understand it is hard for the rational mind to fathom the irrational, but believe me, some people will do whatever possible to get an edge. Period.
2 & 3 are related. The CRCs are only added to the file if the admin password is set or the Lock Modified Assets options is checked. If you want to know more about CRCs see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_checkJastrow said:
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horragoth said:I just wonder whether the arguments regarding the savefile security are not too paranoid. I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
I wish it was just paranoia.
It only takes one or two incidents to severely hurt the credibility & integrity of the game & the wider community.
Mad Professor
Deity
horragoth said:I just wonder whether the arguments regarding the savefile security are not too paranoid. I just cannot imagine someone putting a lot of effort into hacking savegame file just to score some points more
Some people (who are not really twissted or evil - not very much anyhow
) just do it to prove it can be done, and to laugh at efforts to make it secure. While that is probably not very malicious in itself, it ruins the integrity of the whole thing. Confidence is a funny thing - it doesn't take much to take it away. So malicious intent or not, the result is still a compromised system.
Just to steer the conversation back to the central question
I voted in the poll to make the HOF mod compulsory, and that's despite the fact that I have never used or installed it, and am going solely by what people have said about it. (So in one sense, making it compulsory will make me do extra work and figure out how to install something I've not yet paid much attention to).
My reasoning was:
1. Making it compulsory has a disadvantage that it may exclude people, either people who don't wish to install extra stuff, or people who for some reason aren't able to use the mod (eg. Mac users). Now don't get me wrong, I think that's a significant disadvantage, I'd love to have everyone who wants to play the GOTM be able to play...
2. However, I also recognize that the GOTM is staffed by volunteers who presumably put in a lot of time, and ISTM that in that situation we can't expect perfection. We can only hope that those people are willing to put in the time to make the GOTM as widely available as practical, and accept that resources being finite and all that, there may end up being restrictions. In fact there's already restrictions. Some people have consistently reported being unable to get Civ to work properly on their hardware. Some people are too lazy or dumb to read the rules and hence got their entries disqualified coz they reloaded. Some people just have a hardware failure or some other misfortune that makes it impossible for them to submit a valid entry (that happened to me on GOTM4). So ISTM that saying that people who are unable or unwilling to install the HOF mod can't play doesn't seem to be changing much in principle.
3. Set against this the message I seem to have got from reading between the lines in a number of posts is that making the GOTM compulsory will significantly reduce the staff workload since there's fewer versions to support, and more automatic checking of various security issues. I think that's *very* important. The fact that eg. we still don't have the results of GOTM6 at a time when the GOTM9 preview screenshot is presumably less than 2 weeks away tells me that staff workload must be a big problem at the moment. I would hate to add to that workload and then have the risk of the GOTM system significantly freezing up coz there's too much work. In my mind, that issue gets absolute top priority. (Obviously, Ainwood or Alan H, feel free to correct me if totally barking up the wrong tree in any of my assumptions here).
4. I also think the claimed security benefits are significant, especially given the comments about how easily the reputation of the GOTM could suffer if something went wrong on the security/cheating side. And realistically, optional security never works
There is one proviso I would make. Although based on what I've read and on what people have said, I would guess making HOF compulsory *immediately* would be a very bad move. We'd need a couple of GOTM games at least to iron out any problems etc. (besides, make it compulsory now, and I'd bet anything the staff workload would suddenly go up hugely: They'd get swamped with 'help. I tried to install HOF and it went wrong' type queries etc. So my gut feeling is, make it optional for a little while, with a view to making it compulsory as soon as any initial problems have been ironed out and when the staff feel it's appropriate.
But I also think, for all this discussion, it's really up to the staff to decide what to do based on what's easiest for them to implement. They understand all the implementation details and stuff about managing the GOTMs that I can only guess at. I'm grateful to them for doing all that and giving us (or at least: most of us) the opportunity to play Civ in this way. So I'm happy to run with whatever the staff decide on the basis of what they think is going to work.
I voted in the poll to make the HOF mod compulsory, and that's despite the fact that I have never used or installed it, and am going solely by what people have said about it. (So in one sense, making it compulsory will make me do extra work and figure out how to install something I've not yet paid much attention to).
My reasoning was:
1. Making it compulsory has a disadvantage that it may exclude people, either people who don't wish to install extra stuff, or people who for some reason aren't able to use the mod (eg. Mac users). Now don't get me wrong, I think that's a significant disadvantage, I'd love to have everyone who wants to play the GOTM be able to play...
2. However, I also recognize that the GOTM is staffed by volunteers who presumably put in a lot of time, and ISTM that in that situation we can't expect perfection. We can only hope that those people are willing to put in the time to make the GOTM as widely available as practical, and accept that resources being finite and all that, there may end up being restrictions. In fact there's already restrictions. Some people have consistently reported being unable to get Civ to work properly on their hardware. Some people are too lazy or dumb to read the rules and hence got their entries disqualified coz they reloaded. Some people just have a hardware failure or some other misfortune that makes it impossible for them to submit a valid entry (that happened to me on GOTM4). So ISTM that saying that people who are unable or unwilling to install the HOF mod can't play doesn't seem to be changing much in principle.
3. Set against this the message I seem to have got from reading between the lines in a number of posts is that making the GOTM compulsory will significantly reduce the staff workload since there's fewer versions to support, and more automatic checking of various security issues. I think that's *very* important. The fact that eg. we still don't have the results of GOTM6 at a time when the GOTM9 preview screenshot is presumably less than 2 weeks away tells me that staff workload must be a big problem at the moment. I would hate to add to that workload and then have the risk of the GOTM system significantly freezing up coz there's too much work. In my mind, that issue gets absolute top priority. (Obviously, Ainwood or Alan H, feel free to correct me if totally barking up the wrong tree in any of my assumptions here).
4. I also think the claimed security benefits are significant, especially given the comments about how easily the reputation of the GOTM could suffer if something went wrong on the security/cheating side. And realistically, optional security never works
There is one proviso I would make. Although based on what I've read and on what people have said, I would guess making HOF compulsory *immediately* would be a very bad move. We'd need a couple of GOTM games at least to iron out any problems etc. (besides, make it compulsory now, and I'd bet anything the staff workload would suddenly go up hugely: They'd get swamped with 'help. I tried to install HOF and it went wrong' type queries etc. So my gut feeling is, make it optional for a little while, with a view to making it compulsory as soon as any initial problems have been ironed out and when the staff feel it's appropriate.
But I also think, for all this discussion, it's really up to the staff to decide what to do based on what's easiest for them to implement. They understand all the implementation details and stuff about managing the GOTMs that I can only guess at. I'm grateful to them for doing all that and giving us (or at least: most of us) the opportunity to play Civ in this way. So I'm happy to run with whatever the staff decide on the basis of what they think is going to work.
I can't speak for the GOTM staff, nor could I venture if a compulsory HOF mod would ease their labor, but I can tell you this much: despite HOF III having a five year head start, HOF IV already has twice as many games, but we've only seen need to add one person to our staff.DynamicSpirit said:
pigswill
fly (one day)
There's twoways of playing GOTM; either purely for fun and learning from other people's experiences or to compare to other players. If playing competitively then there's clearly an argument for level playing field and transparency in which case HOF ;if you don't want to get on the rankings page then HOF is less important.
Ultimately its down to GOTM staff as it's their workload and they have a better understanding of the technical issues involved.
Ultimately its down to GOTM staff as it's their workload and they have a better understanding of the technical issues involved.
MrWhite
Warlord
Playing my first game now with the HOF mod I must say I like it a lot.
You still have to think for yourself what to do and when, but you will be reminded of thing you otherwise have to put alot of time in (and is easily forgotten).
Off course I still forget to do some things during a turn, but a lot less, which is helping me to learn more from the REAL mistakes I make!
Dynamic Spirit indeed has spoken wisely and the staff will have to decide off course. But I would like the possibility to play with the mod.
You still have to think for yourself what to do and when, but you will be reminded of thing you otherwise have to put alot of time in (and is easily forgotten).
Off course I still forget to do some things during a turn, but a lot less, which is helping me to learn more from the REAL mistakes I make!
Dynamic Spirit indeed has spoken wisely and the staff will have to decide off course. But I would like the possibility to play with the mod.
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Just a quick 'FYI'.
Thanks for all the feedback on this issue. We will support the HOF mod in the GOTM - initially on an optional basis. Once we (the staff) have seen it in-use for a while, and see the uptake from the general playing populaiton, we might consider making it compulsory - but that is not our current goal.
Before we can reliabily support it, we (meaning 'AlanH') need to get systems in place. As you will appreciate, we (I mean AlanH, again) are working hard to also set-up support for warlords - which is the priority. As such, we aspire to have HOF support for the GOTM starting September 1st, and the first warlords WOTM on September 15th.
Thanks for all the feedback on this issue. We will support the HOF mod in the GOTM - initially on an optional basis. Once we (the staff) have seen it in-use for a while, and see the uptake from the general playing populaiton, we might consider making it compulsory - but that is not our current goal.
Before we can reliabily support it, we (meaning 'AlanH') need to get systems in place. As you will appreciate, we (I mean AlanH, again) are working hard to also set-up support for warlords - which is the priority. As such, we aspire to have HOF support for the GOTM starting September 1st, and the first warlords WOTM on September 15th.
drkodos
Emperor
ainwood said:
Cool. Thanks for the update.
Softnum
Warlord
Is there a URL to this HoF thing? I tried searching the forums, and I think 'HoF' is too short. I trued google, for 'HOF Civ' etc. and I keep getting Hall of Fame lists, which isn't what, I think, I'm looking for.
Thanks.
Thanks.
