Post-patch combat AI: tactical level shocking, strategic level reasonable

[AriochIV]

The basic flaws in the game design and the lack of large-scale balance are still there, but the tactical AI has definitely improved. I tried an early horse rush on Immortal/Epic Pangaea, and it was still very effective, but the AI's slowed it down a bit with a few spearmen and more effective city defense, and the battles were a lot more interesting... I had to think much more carefully about each move in the big battles. I actually lost a city for the first time to the AI (twice, same one), though I quickly took it back. However, the AI is still too aggressive even in defense and still doesn't understand the value of defensive terrain -- when my invading army approaches, I can find some rough terrain and set up a defense, and the AI will happily come out from around his cities and attack me and die. The AI still has trouble protecting ranged units, and their Great Generals still sit in the cities.

The game is currently at around 1500 AD and there's only one AI left with a capital, but it's the runaway super-civ who's a bit ahead of me in tech and army size (if not in empire size or wealth) and it will actually be some work to take him out.

So yes, it's definitely an improvement. Still a long way to go.

 

[geeP]

I think AI using exp upgrades on full heals is preferable to a dead upgraded unit.

most human players also use promotions for heals--i know i do. it's cheaper to just produce a new unit in an armoy/barracks city than to lose a critical unit in a skirmish now that units are so important, relative to how throwaway they were before.

Like I said, sometimes the full heal is the right thing to do, especially when you're far from home. It doesn't come up as often in naval combat as it does on land, though. Ship-to-ship combat is not very lethal; without upgrades it might take 4+ shots to bring down an equal-strength enemy ship. Taking a full heal to get in one extra shot is not going to do much for you unless there's a 2HP ship in range, especially when ships can very easily get away scot free and survive with their shiny new promotion (which they can't get from barracks/armory because those only apply to land units.) This is particularly true when they're fighting in friendly waters, which seems to be where any pitched naval battles are likely to occur due to the defensiveness of the naval AI.

 

[E66man]

The AI has improved at war greatly.

Too bad diplomacy is terrible.

One of the things that annoyed me to no end in every previous version of Civ, is that is you lose a city to an AI in a war, then get it back in a different war, the AI would NEVER (to me anyway, never once in nearly 20 years of civ games) give you that city back in a peace deal even if it is the only thing you ask for and no matter how badly you are trouncing them. While I wasn't entirely happy with the AIs giving away their entire kingdom to you for peace in Civ V, at least it was worthwhile to end a war without totally eliminating them. Since the patch, it looks like the AI is back to 'you can pry this city from my cold dead fingers' mode. Or am I off base on that?

 

[Vellis]

From what I've seen the AI's offensive play is still about as bad as it was before. It's defensive play is greatly improved though, no more sending one unit at a time into the meat grinder. It's kind of sad that that qualifies as greatly improved though <<

I also had the AI pull a City-State payoff attack on me. I started a war with Montezuma just as something to do while I waited on my last spaceship parts to finish, and he paid off a CS right next to my capital to attack me with two mech infantry and an artillery. I had a GDR pop out of my capital the turn after and shut it down pretty quick, but it was still a nice move considering my army was nowhere close. Might have even worked if I had less resources at my disposal.

 

[lietkynes]

AI is better for 2 reasons:
1) it keeps some backup units for defence
2) it builds units that make more sense (in my last game I was attacked by 8 artillery + 6 infantry + 4 air units, ouch)

But the tactical side hasnt changed much, he still sends archers in front like there is no tomorrow

edit:
oh and it's still quite ******** about civilian units, in my last game I was at war with Rome and Caesar kept trying to send unescorted settlers through my territory lol

 

[dexters]

To be fair, patch notes only indicate AI defensive fixes, particularly garrisoning and use of terrain around cities, nothing on offense.

I think that point got lost in all the new threads about AI playing better 'generally'

 

[Martin Alvito]

The AI is defending its Workers a LOT better in the early stages. It still does mindbogglingly stupid things when it moves units around; if you can get its units out of its territory, the war is over.

 

[Sonereal]

One of the things that annoyed me to no end in every previous version of Civ, is that is you lose a city to an AI in a war, then get it back in a different war, the AI would NEVER (to me anyway, never once in nearly 20 years of civ games) give you that city back in a peace deal even if it is the only thing you ask for and no matter how badly you are trouncing them. While I wasn't entirely happy with the AIs giving away their entire kingdom to you for peace in Civ V, at least it was worthwhile to end a war without totally eliminating them. Since the patch, it looks like the AI is back to 'you can pry this city from my cold dead fingers' mode. Or am I off base on that?

I'm not sure if that's the case because I haven't lost enough cities to the AI (just one so far and I regained that pretty fast).

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Did everyone miss that screenshot where AI sent archers into melee range of swordsman?

 

[Slimthrull]

I've played 2 games since the patch. The AI seems slightly better on defense, but continues to have some pretty profound issues on attacking. However, even with the improvements to defense, its gone from "awful" to "not quite awful."

Few more patches and then we'll see where things are. I'm still hopeful that this game can be fixed.

 

[Mutineer]

Personally I get feeling they rump up AI bonuses in patch, or AI start to use it insane bonuses a little bit better and simply has more units. Speed with which AI cities growing are absolutely creasy.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

I think that, but may be wrong, they patched the game to be more defensive, as probably the Ai has parameters on of much have to produce something and how many troops has to send in attack or defense. So if they set the game Ai on defensive mode, its defense is better because has set on "more units on defense"... Because it sucks so much in attack that i can't understand how they programmed it...

 

[Lanstro]

In my current game against the Greeks, we're fighting a medieval war along quite a long front. He's doing reasonably well at prodding me all along the front, capturing the occasional city and buying nearby city state alliances. The execution of his pushes is still quite poor. Once again, decent strategic moves, poor tactical ones.

When I counterattack he tends to have units out of sight behind the fog of war ready to pounce. It's definitely an improvement on pre-patch. However, if you're one of those who shelved the game waiting for 'the patch that fixes everything', you should wait another few patches.

 

[gskyes]

The AI is noticeably better, but not good yet. Some observations:

The good:
-They keep units in defense, fighting your units in their territory, where it has the advantage.
-It is building more ships.
-It is using ranged units in cities. (this might be just a coincidence)

The bad:
-On an individual unit scale, it still leaves ranged units vulnerable, and I haven't noticed it taking advantage of terrain very well.
-Embarking units where I have warships in the area.

Overall, it is an improvement. In fact, these changes may make it harder for 1 AI to steamroll the others, but I haven't played enough of the patch to notice.

 

[Truellama]

I definately noticed and improvement and was shocked at what China did to me. I was Russia and I have a large continent island all to myself save for 2 city states. I ignored them they where at the coasts, small and there was plenty of land to expand and build more cities. I thought to myself this is nice. I have this huge chunk of land all to myself and it was rich in natural resources but only had 3 different luxuries, well no mind any ways it was good! I planned on a peaceful game and winning via the space race.

By 1800's I had 5 cities and my Capitol was huge. China have settled 2 measily cities in my land but I ignored them they where no threat at all... till I saw a huge armada off the NW coast on my Empire! It was full of win well specifically riflemen and horsemen with a cannon or two. The armada was escorted by their warships which didnt matter my Navy was imaginary. They clumsily landed they had problems with border control against me and a city state. It took a few turns but they unloaded their vast army occupying most of my northern half of my Empire. As I feared the day came and they declared war on me. It was a hopeless, I did have a army but it was out teched and outgunned.

I saw how they fight and it was rather competant. They formed lines of sorts of infantry and their calvary was sitting on the wings or backs of the infantry. The infantry pushed foward and the calvary kind of mopped up. In other words the infantry did the costly brutal fighting instead of the more expensive definsely vulnarable calvary. I lost 2 cities in 1 turn and I quite the game it was already decided.

I never experience that in a Civ game where a huge "coordinated" armada landed a massive army and attacked in a half decent way. When I have an island Empire in Civ games I never worry about invasion at best only about naval warfare... now I know the oceans can no longer protect any future island empires I may build.... *gulp

 

[dexters]

I think there was anothe report on an archipelago game where the AI did the same thing to the human player.

The question I think isn't whether the AI has the strategies to invade, it is whether sometimes the naval invasion strategy is never turned on, and pre-patch continents game, you'll see a dominant AI just sit there on their own continent letting you either 1) invade them 2) win some peaceful victory.

The switch trigger for a naval landing seems a bit hit and miss. But yeah when it does get triggered, the AI seems capable of executing a naval landing.

 

[carlisimo]

i'm confused,.....it still sucks or it is better? i can re open CivV or i must keep it shut for another patch or two?

Those two options aren’t mutually exclusive!

It’s still not very good, but it’s passable. It’s good enough that I have fun playing.

 

[Lanstro]

Also worth noting that since the AI defends itself better now, there's a lot less of the steamrolling effect that we saw pre-patch. Often when I get to the other continent(s) most of the AIs are still alive and kicking.

And since the AIs seem a bit better at befriending city states now, there are also more alive city states in the late-game too.

Now if they touch up the diplomacy and the offensive AI this could almost be good.

 

[lietkynes]

The next thing they need to address is embarkation. In my current game I have a choke-point consisting of just 1 hills tile, with mountains on one side and sea on the other. I of course built a fort on that and placed a swordsman inside, with 2 catapults behind.

The AI was smart enough to realize that throwing his land units at me was not going to work. So he embarked his units, trying to circumnavigate my fort, completely ignoring my 2 triremes and my 2 catapults

On the plus side, after wasting maybe a dozen of land units, he finally brought some trebuchets to the fight. I killed 4-5 trebuchets but at the end my swordsman was so wounded that I was forced to retreat a few tiles behind

 

[Arksa]

My observations after patch, both good and bad:

+ Persia amassed troops on my border and concentrated all its attack force on my newly founded town which had 2 iron resources capable of supporting 8 legions in total. Before I got my troops there he attacked the town and captured it. He used catapults, archers and immortals in a nice way.
- After that it seems his units vanished and fell back and all I had to do was use two legions and go get that town back. Simple. Now imagine what would've happened if it was a bit smarter, and actually positioned his catapult to defend the town.
- Now Persia is moving along my borders with Immortals protecting settlers, I just need to pick them apart one by one. I've gotten 3 of their settlers now, one of which was totally without protection. Why do they do this? Why? I had a good game going and suddenly they start mass murdering their settlers and immortals by offering them to my legions. They come without any support.