Praetorian rush critique

[dylanmeditates]

Hello, I have another story to tell! In pursuing a better strategy and understanding of the game so I can have more fun with it, I am posting a recent early game of mine to get some ideas. pangea, monarch, everything standard.

Screenshot 1... I went ag, BW, hunting, IW, now i'm going AH. you can see incans are very close to the west. I intend to crush them with praetorians. I have 3 workers up at this point (all on the iron tile, mining and roading), I hesitated to build a settler until i found iron. the settler is on the spot north of iron with the warrior, to be settled next turn. Note the date... did i settle too late or is it worth it to wait for iron when playing w/ rome? how about my worker actions? did i prioritize the right improvements? i intend to get cottages from tech trades later on.

a quick note... i thought that if i settled on that calendar resource, it would automatically give me the resource but, no such luck. alas.

Screenshot 2... I used my first two praets to take a barb city to the north. now i have about 4 praetorians total and i'm about to go for the incans after i get maybe 2 more. what to build in magyar, i wonder? barracks or library or worker? also... when should i get that first library up in my capital? very soon or only after done producing all units necessary to take incans out?

screenshot 3... more or less conquered incans. left them 2 crap cities. he gave me math, mysticism, pottery, etc. (after AH, i went alpha, then stopped after that). Now I am self-teching construction in preparation for taking out the next victim... who should it be? washington is #1 so I'm thinking he's a good target... Louis probably has some wonders up though, so he would be a good idea too. Hm...

Shall I start putting up cottages in my capital now on those floodplains? what do i build in all the cities i just captured? libraries for border pop (or just hope a religion gets put there), workers, or barracks to continue building units for the next war?

In taking the incas, I took the hindu holy city. Something I always wondered was, should I try to build a great prophet first or a great scientist in this type of situation?

How is my rush date/war finish date looking?

THANKS A MILLION TIMES OVER FOR YOUR IDEAS!!!

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

did i prioritize the right improvements?

a quick note... i thought that if i settled on that calendar resource, it would automatically give me the resource but, no such luck. alas.

I just want to quickly comment on these two points:
Why did you build that Mine NE to Rome instead of S? You could have had one additional Commerce with the same amount of worker turns, unless there was a forest but even then you could have probably waited until BW was in for the Mine, especially considering that you were beelining IW anyway.
You will autoconnect the resource as soon as Calender is in, but in this situation settling on the Silk was more than useless. You aren't even getting additional Commerce from it since it isn't next to a river.

Btw shouldn't this be in S&T?

Leaving the rest to more experienced players.

 

[lymond]

I requested thread move (OP you can do this using the red triangle below your name)

I'll add more later, but posting a save always helps too

 

[dylanmeditates]

ok, got it about the calendar resource... i won't get it until calendar anyway, so it's much better to use the tile for the potential extra commerce point.

Also, only noticed now the potential for extra commerce on the south mine as opposed to the Northern one. I'll be more careful next time... that's why i post on here, i'm always getting better!

and to the admins and everyone... i just found how to navigate to the S&T forums, so my posts will be better placed now.

 

[lymond]

Definitely late on the second city. Settle second city at least by 2000BC if you are going to rush, even sooner if not. This will give you that much more production sooner. Your rush date is very slow.

AH was unnecessary. Better to go Pot>Writing>Maths/Alpha/Currency. Corn is enough food for that city. Not sure if barb city was worth keeping, but maybe there is food I don't see.

Always go for a GS first regardless.

Rome is a questionable Bureau cap. Low on food, but should make a fine production city with farms and mines, and later improvements. You can setup commerce cities in later applicable capture cities.

Praets should easily let you conquer 2 or 3 civs on this level without construction.

Lastly, get the BUG mod.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Settle second city at least by 2000AD if you are going to rush, even sooner if not.

Might wanna fix that.

 

[lymond]

Might wanna fix that.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I went ag, BW, hunting, IW, now i'm going AH.

Why go AG and hunting? All you need is BW -> IW and ( unless you're lucky ) the wheel. That speeds up your attack date by quite a bit. After you get IW and are kicking some ar$e then you should go to writing ( probably by going pottery first ) and get alpha somehow. Once you're to alpha you can trade for that other stuff or at least build research to catch up.

The way you did it still works on monarch however at immortal plus you will need to cut corners.

*EDIT* Oh yes I see you had beaver. In that case hunting was probably worth it, but agriculture is definitely a no-no, especially with all those flood plains. Also your attack date with praets should be no later then 1500 BC unless you're attacking with catapults or something.

 

[dylanmeditates]

so... AH isn't worth it, even for the cows? ok, i'll have to ponder that one.

and some are even saying, no AG bc there are floodplains?! is wheat that bad? and floodplains farms not that worth it? hm. also new to me. this forum is full of interesting new ideas.

i also notice a suggestion to go writing>math, and then alpha afterwards. I am guessing this is to increase chopping power. Is this a regular strategy to go for or is math before alpha worth more some times than others? I always get alpha and trade it for math.

 

[lymond]

Dylan - I think Ag was okay, but maybe after IW if you really want the Praet rush fast. Mainly due to the corn for the second city. The wheat is only +1 food to a flood plain pre-CS, so yeah it is not so urgent. However, you would want that corn up asap for the second city. Cow on the other hand is not worth the AH diversion, which is an expensive early tech. Easy trade later, especially if you beeline alpha.

I said Maths/Alpha>Currency as more of a choice/decision. Both techs lead to Currency. Which one you choose depends on your strategy and difficulty. On Monarch you can get away with teching these yourself or, as you mentioned, trading one for the other. Ultimately though you always want Currency asap. As you move up levels, your choices have to be even more focused.

Monarch is high enough that Alpha can pay off to backfill some techs as you head to Currency.

Construction is not that urgent with Praets if you get the rush started soon enough. Praets should take care of at least 2 AIs on this level.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

so... AH isn't worth it, even for the cows? ok, i'll have to ponder that one.

and some are even saying, no AG bc there are floodplains?! is wheat that bad? and floodplains farms not that worth it? hm. also new to me. this forum is full of interesting new ideas.

i also notice a suggestion to go writing>math, and then alpha afterwards. I am guessing this is to increase chopping power. Is this a regular strategy to go for or is math before alpha worth more some times than others? I always get alpha and trade it for math.

The idea is to hook up iron and get the rush started, THEN catch up on stuff like AG and AH. Though you should beeline writing and not waste time teching more then one food tech until you can at least secure writing ( writing is key, if you don't get it you could crash your economy with no way to tech out ).

 

[robbyextreme]

Don't ever skip worker techs. Getting animal husbandry early on for cows is way better than going for something else.

The MOST common start on regular maps is agriculture>AH>bronze>writing>alpha>currency

There are slight variations of course, but this is how you should be playing.

Early game is really simple

Your settler should normally be out turn 35-40 turns. Unless the start is horrible and has no 4+ food source then expect a later settler and a bunch of extra warriors being built while growing to size 3.

Build a worker first>warriors until size 3, and switch to settler as soon as it grows to 3. You don't need to finish the warrior right away so chop another worker and then finish off the remaining hammers for your warrior.

 

[dylanmeditates]

The MOST common start on regular maps is agriculture>AH>bronze>writing>alpha>currency

do you self-tech currency after alpha? i'm usually pretty low on dough after alpha, need to be getting to war, and by the time i have enough $/beakers to get currency, someone will trade it to me

 

[capnvonbaron]

I would DEFINITELY have settled a strong second city (preferably in the direction of your first victim), then have another settler waiting to go around the time IW was done. Having the second city will help you tech it quicker if you can secure a couple of heavy commerce tiles, and you can start getting the barracks and stuff set up in city #2, as well as the population up for the whipping that is about to ensue. In all, you'll end up with IW faster, and more Praets sooner. Feel free to crowd Rome's BFC with cities 2 and 3, because you plan on early victory and you'll never use all those tiles around Rome anyways.

 

[GKey]

Don't ever skip worker techs. Getting animal husbandry early on for cows is way better than going for something else...

Good example of "never say never" case. With this start and strategy player should skip AH and backfill it later.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Don't ever skip worker techs. Getting animal husbandry early on for cows is way better than going for something else.

The MOST common start on regular maps is agriculture>AH>bronze>writing>alpha>currency

There are slight variations of course, but this is how you should be playing.

Also, Pottery (granaries and cottages!) needs to be fitted between Bronze Working and Writing. Granary is really the most important building in the game that needs to be built before anything else.

 

[Funky]

Shall I start putting up cottages in my capital now on those floodplains? what do i build in all the cities i just captured? libraries for border pop (or just hope a religion gets put there), workers, or barracks to continue building units for the next war?

Everything apart from this quoted bit has been commented on and I concur with the suggestions made. So I'll just comment on this bit.

1) Yes, you should put cottages on those floodplains! In fact, you should have researched pottery much earlier and built them right away. Then, by the time of the 3rd screenshot you would have had hamlets or maybe villages. You don't need any extra food in your cap, since you have wheat (which you can make wet later once you have civil service, with help of the small lake to the east), and not many hills to mine, while the floodplains give an extra food anyway.
The only time I would build anything else than cottages on flood plains is if the city has so many hills that you need more food to work them all, and in that case make it a production city. But that is fairly rare.

2) How you wish to proceed with the captured cities depends on several considerations. You could play it aggressive and go for America or France once you have catapults. Up to then the new cities would build barracks, the old ones more praets. Your workers would give the new cities some basic improvements so they can churn out some extra units in a reasonable time.
However, this is a bit risky. Both France and America are ahead of you, and most likely they will have longbows by the time you are ready to attack. Catapults have a difficult time against longbows, so you'll need a lot of them. Besides, you already have a decent number of cities, and getting more will be costy and throw you back in tech even further.
That's why I would lean towards consolidating instead. Reinforce your border cities to be prepared for any attacks. Chop those jungles, and build the necessary improvements, while the cities construct monuments, granaries and libraries. Found another city to the east of Rome near the horses. If you're playing with Augustus, you could go consider switching to literature to build the Great Library (might be too late though), or go for the Notre Dame when you get engineering. Get civil service for bureaucracy and irrigation spread. When you have engineering, you could build a load of trebuchets and go for an attack then. Trebs are much better for sieging than catapults, and the praets will still be good enough to do the dirty work (though a few extra macemen will be needed). Note that America and France have different religions, so they might attack eachother. In that case choose a side and join in!


Oh and by the way, get BtS!

 

[robbyextreme]

do you self-tech currency after alpha? i'm usually pretty low on dough after alpha, need to be getting to war, and by the time i have enough $/beakers to get currency, someone will trade it to me

That's a long time to wait for currency lol. At this point you should already have 4-5 cities and the only way to keep expanding and growing stronger is with the extra trade route.

If you have no real commerce tiles, I admit it's a little slower. But when the map generator denies you commerce it gives you hammers. And that's why you build research using the hammers. Easily reaching 30-50 beakers for teching currency.

Also, Pottery (granaries and cottages!) needs to be fitted between Bronze Working and Writing. Granary is really the most important building in the game that needs to be built before anything else.

Ah yeah obviously pottery>writing my typo.

Best building for sure.

 

[Gumbolt]

All a bit late for me. I tend to find with Romans my first rush might involve axes. 6 or so cities by 375bc on Monarch is not hugely great. You could of done that without prets expanding peacefully.

A save would of been nice.