Pre-EkoNES: Fall From Heaven

i think its a good idea kol.
 
Please be aware that major streamlining is still under way. I make no claim that the NES that you will actually play will bear any resemblance to the NES you signed up for.

I am taking the strategy game RTW as my main inspiration, and my latest few ideas have been moving further away from Immaculate's NES. The reason why my OP is so out of date is because there are still a lot of changes being made to even the basic concept.

I'm trying to reduce the maintanance on my part, because yesterday I had a brainwave and realised that this was going to be far too difficult on my part to run in any enjoyable way, for both myself and the players. This is because I have several NPC's, and a masive load of stats to update each turn.

A form of this NES will definitely hit the forum this summer. A form of this NES.
 
Loose tech system.

Today I had the idea that it would be more realistic if I ditched the whole tech tree system in exchange for loose techs. Basically, people could invest tech points, possibly with a loose ''aim'' (such as towards military or farming etc) although these would not necessarilly be very reliable. Many techs wouldn't be completely filled out until they were discovered which is good for me because I can see what the game requires at that point in terms of balance, and provide it.

I would have most of techs planned out before hand with some rough ideas of course.

Once a tech had been discovered, I'd stick the stats for it up, and you could specifically choose to research it, but the cost would be around 30% higher, and would be completely unavailable to research if the original researcher had a closed economy. Of course, if you just kept randomly putting funds (tech points) into your sages and proffessors then you may discover the tech on your own for the same price.

The idea needs some work, and probably some better explaining, but I think this would be a lot better then the unrealistic, plasticy tech tree.

If I go with this mechanic, techs would be renamed ''Disocoveries'' and could cover anything from a horse-driven plough that makes farms produce extra food, to the alphabet which improves libraries and allows Cryptographer's Studios for extra Espionage points, to a new chemical formula to cure marsh fever, making alchemist labs produce extra health.

Many things would be available at the beginning of the game, which should speed up the early phase and give you more choice with what you do. It would also mean that people could make discoveries to combat events that happen in the game. For example, if your region tends to go up in flames every summer due to forest fires, maybe a new kind of water pump could solve your troubles for you and turn a curse into a blessing. After all, all that hot weather would be perfect for growing grapes to make wine from, not to mention the fact that you now have a much improved irrigation system.

It would also mean that there would be no ''end'' to the amount you can advance. Admittedly, it is unlikely for a NES to go on so long that a tech tree would be completely filled, but it gives you the option to advance in certain areas almost indefinitely if you wanted to do so.
 
The idea sounds nice, Kol, I have to agree there. Just make sure you do make progress and not constantly find a new aspect of the game to alter :p
 
I like that, actually. I dislike "research points" on the whole because they feel to.. gamey, artificial, and a sort of cop-out. I mean, how many technologies before the modern era were made by a concerted effort on the part of a nation?

No, until very recently - say, the 1800's - most technology advancement was pretty much unrelated to what a nation did. They may have put a little effort into it, but most of the causation was through location, luck, "mindset", overall economy - things that national leaders really had little control over. That's partially why I ditched techs completely in my NES - and why I like the fact that you're at least acknowledging that fact, and trying to make it better.

Granted, tech trees make it fun and more balanced, but in my mind civilization is not balanced... I could go on in that thread, but the point is that I give kudos to you, for seeing the issue and trying something new.
 
Diamondeye said:
The idea sounds nice, Kol, I have to agree there. Just make sure you do make progress and not constantly find a new aspect of the game to alter :p
Click to expand...

Ah. Woops :p.

I mean, err don't worry... I definitely haven't just changed the enitre game system to satisfy my latest whim :lol:.
 
orangelex44 said:
I like that, actually. I dislike "research points" on the whole because they feel to.. gamey, artificial, and a sort of cop-out. I mean, how many technologies before the modern era were made by a concerted effort on the part of a nation?

No, until very recently - say, the 1800's - most technology advancement was pretty much unrelated to what a nation did. They may have put a little effort into it, but most of the causation was through location, luck, "mindset", overall economy - things that national leaders really had little control over. That's partially why I ditched techs completely in my NES - and why I like the fact that you're at least acknowledging that fact, and trying to make it better.

Granted, tech trees make it fun and more balanced, but in my mind civilization is not balanced... I could go on in that thread, but the point is that I give kudos to you, for seeing the issue and trying something new.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know what you mean about the Tech Points. I think what they represent is the ability to make new discoveries and to improve development. A place with lots of libraries might tend to have a more innovative populace then one without. A place with schools would have a more educated populace. A place with lots of alchemic labs would have that ''upper class'' of inteligence, that just might be able to solve the problems that the general people suffer, such as the hard work required to haul water up from the well and drag it across to the fields in the dry season. That kind of thing.
 
I too like the system. I can definitely see Balseraphs randomly researching lots of stuff and getting unexpected discoveries.

orangelex44 said:
I mean, how many technologies before the modern era were made by a concerted effort on the part of a nation?

No, until very recently - say, the 1800's - most technology advancement was pretty much unrelated to what a nation did. They may have put a little effort into it, but most of the causation was through location, luck, "mindset", overall economy - things that national leaders really had little control over. That's partially why I ditched techs completely in my NES - and why I like the fact that you're at least acknowledging that fact, and trying to make it better.
Click to expand...
I agree that the government didn't fund research for most of history, but the economy did (math progress was driven by merchants, the first universities were created for merchants). I think in a NES, or in Civ, one doesn't play the ruler of the empire but plays the whole civilization, including these industrious merchants and thinkers, so letting the player control which way he wants research done doesn't sound that bad an idea to me. It's more a question of whether you fancy yourself as a leader or as the whole civ and I tend towards the latter category.
 
...with the caveat being of course that the lower your stability, the less likely your nation's people hold the same opinions and values that your role-played leadership holds.
 
The new population system is working very well so far, and I've almost finished the new spreadsheet.

One thing you may be interested to see is that all workforces have been merged, and should be enough to mean that once a certain point is reached, a new settlement (new key word ;)) has to be err... settled. Workforces can be moved between similiar professions. In game terms this means between buildings or improvements in the same group, so from a plantation to a farm, or a library to an alchemy lab for example.

Also, the resource question is solved. ''Resource'' improvements will have the same basic stats as a non-resource improvement of the same type, except that a resource is provided, and you have to pay a one-time cost to ''specialise'' the improvement to aquire the resource. The more resource improvements you have the more resources of the type you get.

The effects of the resource stack, and you can import more of the same type of resource if you swing that way. So you could have 2 diamond mines, giving you a total of 10% extra gold per turn, then import another instance of diamond netting you an extra 5% gold per turn.

One notable thing is that the effects of resources affect all settlements. This means that, if you have 3 instances of diamond, and 3 settlements, you would in fact get 15% extra gold in all your settlements. The percentage will favour larger settlements, of course. As almost all ''raw'' gold, before modifiers are added, comes from the population. But still, it's another reason to have plenty of settlements.

When you trade a resource, you still keep half the effects of the resource you are exporting. You also now get the full effects of the resource you're importing. This gives the players an interesting question, do I trade away my diamonds to someone else to get some more resources of similiar effect, or do I hoard them for myself? Afterall, you could be giving a potential enemy a vast amount of gold (note, prices will be more expensive then in FFHNES).

It also provides a rubber-band mechanic, as people would rather trade their best resources to players with less settlements, because they'd get less gold.

Well hopefully anyway. There's still modification going on in this section though.
---

Also, today, tomorrow, (or sometime next year), the OP will be updated.

Also, an hour 2 hours several days after that, a regional map will be posted, with NPC's and settleable lands marked. You can all then bagsie the best looking area of the map and begin your scheming. The game will start in late May, it is currently April the 11th.
 
My two latest brain children, Trade and Discoveries, are up in the OP. If I haven't explained something clearly then post in the thread and I will clarify.

I would say the NES is roughly 70% complete, all that's needed is deciding the stats of the buidlings and improvements you have access to at the begining of the game, finishing the statsheet, making a regional map, filling the regional map with resources, decide where my NPC's are living, posting the regional map and writing update 0.

For some reason I couldn't sleep at all last night, so I decided to put the majority of the extra 9 hours I gained to good use straightening out issues with the NES and thinking of lots of Discoveries. By the end of the easter holidays I think I could have the NES fullly finished, read to start as early as the 3rd of June (sorry I know I said May yesterday) which is the date of my last exam. After these exams I'm free from exams until January which means I will be able to run the NES between June and January (if it lasts that long).

I'm really excited that this is finally coming togeather, I hope you'll find it worth the wait.
 
Guys, at this crucial stage of development feed back really is essential.

---

In case you were wondering, it is intentional that there will be a very large number of discoveries. It is not expected (or possible) for a single player to get every single discovery, and players will only know the stats of discoveries that they have access to. As there is no trading there's simply no need for everyone to see the whole list, and it will keep with the sense of mystery. A player half way across the world from you likely has a very different culture, so why on earth would they have the same kind of development, past the basic ''farming'', ''mining'', ''wood-work'' skills which all factions will discover. You can find out the stats for other players' discoveries via espionage if you need to.

Map will be up tomorrow, assuming I can find a good hosting site to use.
 
Even though I'm not playing in this one, that does seem clear enough and interesting.
 
Map is up, you can all claim a starting location if you want to. I'm going to try to resize it at some point to make it easier on those of you with less wide monitors.
 
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