Pre-game: From the Earth to the Moon

[bioelectricclam]

So I'm planning on running another challenge mission alongside my Ninja one (I have the time so I might as well), this one probably a bit more ambitious and difficult, so I would like some pre-game advice.

The challenge is to duplicate the Jules Verne novel "From the Earth to the Moon", that is, get a man on the Moon by the year 1865, on Prince difficulty. What this means gamewise is that I will have completed the Apollo program by this date, or else lose the challenge. Impossible? Most likely. Fun to try? You betcha!

So far as rules will go, I'm allowed to use any means necessary short of reloading -cottages, great people, stealing techs with infiltrate, you name it. However, I am NOT allowed to pick and chose my leaders - no Pericles of Korea allowed! This means that primarily what I want to plan for the pre-game is which leader and/or civ I will pick. That's the problem I am having though: whether to pick a civ based upon its unique building or leaders personality - not to mention starting technologies. After doing a bit of research, these seem like the best choices, so I'll list them out with my thoughts and then let you all discuss who you'd pick and why:

Korea: Seowon comes mid-game, but it seems like the most powerful research-oriented UB that I can get early enough to make a difference, and Wang Kon's Financial trait isn't that shabby either. As a bonus they start with Mysticism, meaning early monasteries and a bit of a jump start on Masonry and the Pyramids.

Mali: Huge money gains early through Mint and Mansa's Financial trait, and Spiritual means I can switch civics and religions on the fly without sacrificing research time. Early wheel could mean a lead on getting Writing and Pottery.

Rome: Augustus offers fast wonders, which would be good for grabbing early GP, and the Forum UB would only boost that bonus even further. Fishing and Mining aren't all that great starter techs though, and Imperialistic is only slightly beneficial (I won't be warring much and once you get a few food sources settlers come quickly as is).

England: Elizabeth has a good combo of Philosophical and Financial (good GP and cottage support), and although England's UB comes a bit later it stacks nicely with her traits and will be available early enough to make a difference. They are in the same boat as Rome when it comes to starting techs, though.

India: Ghandi's Philosophical and Spiritual are decent teching traits, but otherwise not supported so well by their UB...although Fast Workers would be nice for getting some Cottages ASAP I suppose. Mysticism is a good starting tech.

Egypt: Hatshepsut's Creative is nice for an early lead on libraries, though not sure it matches that well with Spiritual. UB is for culture and early Great Prophets, which isn't really going to help me research the techs I need. Starting with Wheel is alright for getting Pottery fast.

France: Louis XIV has a strong combination of traits in Industrious and Creative (he can get wonders fast and then get GP fast using the wonders), and has a jump start on Pottery with the Wheel. UB technically is a research building, but its bonuses vs. regular Observatories is a culture, not a research, one.

Greece: Best leader traits in my opinion in Pericles, with the killer combination of Philosophical and Creative (early libraries for even earlier Great Scientists). To boot, he begins with the tech I'd most want for free: Hunting, which means early scouts and a much better chance of finding a tech from a goodie hut. Bad news is his UB just won't be getting me those beakers.

Dutch: Willem van Oranje has an interesting combination in Creative and Financial, which would give me a decent boost to early research that would hopefully carry on throughout the game with financial. Points against him are his late UB that won't really benefit me research-wise and weak starting techs.

So those are the contenders; looking over it I'm sort of partial to Elizabeth or Mansa Musa, but there's a lot to be said for the other leaders as well. The more input I have the better prepared I'll be for this challenging challenge, so please share your thoughts and opinions, I'm all ears.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

A couple general thoughts.

Your victory condition is beakers beakers beakers, with an abrupt turn toward concentrated production (1600 hammers) at the end. Those hammers need to come from a single city, and cannot be rushed. I wouldn't expect this to be a race (given where I see the hall of fame scores, your target date is eminently reachable), but there are a few tricks you can use to speed up the final sprint (put the palace in that city and switch to bureaucracy, make sure you have lots of overflow, include the Globe Theater there so you can run caste system without having to worry about Emancipation penalties, etc).

Beakers are easier in peace time than in war time, and much easier if you have allies (plural) that you can trade with, especially if they can tech fast enough to keep up with you. Also consider that the technology pace accelerates as techs are researched; smearing alphabet around allows everybody to get teching early.

Given that you are looking to pound beakers, I'd be aiming for the Great Library. You'll also need to consider whether you want to be bulbing with your great scientists, or settling them. Great Prophets are not to be avoided - you'll want an early GS for an academy, but prophets attached to your future production center will help keep the research pace high.

 

[bioelectricclam]

Good thoughts there VoiceofUnreason! I'm definitely planning a combination of cottaging like mad with a super GP city, and Great Prophets fit well into that plan because A. I hope to have at least a shrine if not more for the gold, and B. Golden Age fodder. My hope is that I can get the Mausoleum of Mausolos (sp?) early so that I can enjoy those boosts to research as well as a ghetto version of Spiritual (at least...if I choose a civ that doesn't already have that trait) for switching from researching to production near the end.

To add a bit to your suggestions it seems that there are a few wonders that would be a big benefit to my overall strategy and that I ought to aim for. Thought I'd give my opinions on them and why:

Oracle: Kind of obvious in a tech race, but I could also use this to grab Code of Laws (landing me a shrine) and Caste System (useful for getting early Great Merchants/Scientists). It's also a step along the way to Philosophy and the Pacifism civic (although the value of that is debatable if I can get the Schwedagon Paya and Free Religion).

Pyramids: I will definitely want the Pyramids for early Representation...just hope that I can manage without the Great Wall as I play on Raging Barbs and kind of hope to skip Hunting and Archery (waste of beakers imo).

Mausoleum of Mausolus: Already mentioned it, but double plus good golden ages sound like a nice research boost.

Schwedagon Paya: I want this bling bling for early Free Religion. I think it isn't exaggerating to say that without this AND Pyramids I will probably not reach my goal.

Parthenon: Since I'm going for lots of GP anyways this wouldn't hurt. Just hard since it competes with two other really powerful wonders (SP and MM)...maybe I'll get lucky and find some marble?

There are three more wonders which I'm curious about and would like people's opinions on: The Spiral Minaret, University of Sankore, and Taj Mahal. With the first two my question is is it better to get Free Religion early with SP or to keep a state religion and use SP and UoS, beakers wise? And my question about the TM is is it worth spending the time pursuing basically dead-end techs for this free Golden Age or should I be focusing my efforts towards Liberalism first and foremost? Come to think of it, the Spiral Minaret also requires dead-end techs...maybe I'll just settle on UoS and call it a day.

 

[InFlux5]

Before I looked at your list, Elizabeth popped into my head. I don't think UU/UB should really be a consideration; save for the Russians none of them give a significant boost (I don't consider the Mint significant, but maybe I should.) Seems like Elizabeth would be best at generating beakers and GP, which are what's going to get you to your goal.

I don't think you really need to worry about starting techs or out-teching the AI on Prince.

 

[bioelectricclam]

Before I looked at your list, Elizabeth popped into my head. I don't think UU/UB should really be a consideration; save for the Russians none of them give a significant boost (I don't consider the Mint significant, but maybe I should.) Seems like Elizabeth would be best at generating beakers and GP, which are what's going to get you to your goal.

I don't think you really need to worry about starting techs or out-teching the AI on Prince.

You may be right about UB not being too significant; I thought I'd include them anyway though just to cover the bases. One thought I am having about this game is that sooner will be better than latter when it comes to the economy, which is why I think Mints would be desirable for that early gold boost before Currency. But considering the likely value of GP in this game, Philosophical should probably be my priority. Still willing to listen if someone has another opinion, but it is looking like Good Queen Bess is the best option.

 

[Cabledawg]

If you are only playing a prince game, then youre gonna have to consider gifting techs to the AI. Their research wont be anything near yours. By gifting them techs, they will be able to research techs that you might not want to if you are trying to beeline certain techs.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

My hunch is that you'll find your target pretty easy to achieve if you don't waste time chasing the shiny.

Now, I wouldn't want to discourage your ideas - it's a good idea to have a number of alternatives, so that you can choose the most appropriate one for the situation at hand.

But it is worth taking some time to consider which ideas are incompatible with one another, and why. For instance, you might notice that the Mausoleum, which caters to burning GPs for golden ages, conflicts with Representation, which caters to attaching them to super cities. Or as you did notice that in some cases you have a conflict of timing, the plan produces too much to do all at once (you want the oracle, and an early library, and protected settlers... something is going to give somewhere).

You might also consider where a plan leaves you vulnerable, and look to see if there is a contingency arrangement to be made. For example, if you are worried about Ancient/Classical era defense, because you are trying to snare wonders/wonder accelerators, then you might give more consideration to Dog Soldiers/Holkans/Bowman, which don't require resources (giving you some more flex in your early settling).

 

[bioelectricclam]

Good point with the Mausoleum burning GP and the Pyramids being best if GP are settled...sometimes I miss little details like that. Anyways, I sort of got antsy and it seems I've gotten a good base idea of what I need to do, so if you are interested in watching this I've started the challenge. You can see it here.