Pre-SINES V-Ruleset, map, and stats

Yay spring break begins!

To those who have helped me so far your reservations have been accepted.

I'll work on this after I go drinking.
 
Oh this map? How can I refuse!

I call portugal, and I helped das with population figures and thus helped you eh? ;). I'll add trade and industrial centres based on das's old PMs if you tell me the total number of each you want.


It doesn't really matter, It doesn't contribute to the stats directly so put them wherever their supposed to be. Its mainly so the player can identify and seize important places and impact stuff.
 
What can I do to help you with this NES?
 
das, tell me of Chernigov and Tver. Mainly Chernigov since I want them, but Tver too so I can understand the dynamic between the two :p

I remember you saying that Chernigov was essentially a Mediterranean nation with an irredentist streak.
 
It would be this much easier if you told me what exactly do you want to know, ofcourse. ;)
 
I apologize about my previous post, but my browser was seriously making me type backwards. What I mean to say is:
"I might get Ming China done today, but I'll be gone for a few days starting tomorrow. May I semi-reserve Japan?"
 
It would be this much easier if you told me what exactly do you want to know, ofcourse. ;)

1. How did it come to be as it is in its present state?
2. What are its national ambitions?
3. What is its relations with Tver?
4. What powers the economy and how industrialized is Chernigov?
5. How is the government of Chernigov set up? Total autocracy or a more enlightened despotism?

Any overly important leaders in its history would also be cool to note. :mischief:
 
das, what's the internal situation of Italy? Economy, welfare, and other thing like this. And the tech level?
 
Bang!

sneswecocentresfu9.gif
 
1. How did it come to be as it is in its present state?

Started out as one of the petty principalities in the old Askoldich Polania (south Rus), becoming virtually independent by the early 12th century. Its power waxed and waned for a long period; the Mongol invasion in the early 13th century was detrimental in its immediate effects, but as Chernigov came out of it relatively intact and had managed to cooperate with the Mongols later in the century, it ultimately was able to reunite Polania, though the Grand Prince's power in many regions was nominal and it was more of a feudal confederation in the Late Middle Ages. Since the 16th century the Chernigovians had made attempts to advance into the Balkans, leading to intermittent warfare against the Hungarians. Though the 17th century saw it reformed into a centralised state, and considerable gains were made to the east (against the post-Mongol statelets and various nomadic tribes) and the Grand Princes had also managed to hold their own against the Tverians while also carving bits and pieces out of Poland (no Poland-Lithuania in this world, but there was a pretty big Kingdom of Poland in the Late Middle/Early Modern Age), no long-term success was to be achieved in the Balkans; even when the Hungarians could be beaten, the Bulgarian principalities were pretty resistant and the logistics made their effective conquest impossible.

Things changed in the 18th/early 19th centuries, with advances in agriculture and plain old population growth (as well as the final defeat of local and nearby tribes) allowing for the highly successful colonisation and development of the southern regions. The fleet that was built to destroy the Anatolian pirates established Chernigovian hegemony in the Black Sea (Georgia is essentially a puppet state, for the record, and there is a half-protectorate, half-colony in northern Anatolia, as you might have noticed). The middle of the 19th century saw Hungary implode like it never imploded before, and the Chernigovians seemed poised to establish their hegemony over the Balkans. They made good progress at first, imposing puppet rulers in Bulgaria, but then things went wrong; an uprising in the Caucasus and a new war with Tver which was scarcely fought to a draw (the envelopment and near-capture of Chernigov itself leading to the capital semi-move) had distracted the Chernigovians from the Balkans, and the Serbs were then able to destroy most of what they had accomplished (south of the Danube, at least; the more direct gains made north of the river held), taking Constantinople and staying there with Imperial help. Thus Chernigov's ambitions were frustrated, fueling the aforementioned irredentism. Since then, it was preparing for another go.

2. What are its national ambitions?

Ideally, hegemony over southeastern Europe; Bulgaria and Tsargrad/Constantinople are particularly emphasised by the irredentists, inasmuch as the Polanian princes used to rule that area for a while. Anatolia, Caucasus and the Golden Horde are also natural targets for expansion. It's not just nationalism, ofcourse; the Chernigovian economy basically demands growth, and the south is the most natural direction for it to expand into.

3. What is its relations with Tver?

Pretty bad; the Tverians always were pretty aggressive, and currently are keen on the idea of uniting Eastern Europe. Their economy is in a boom phase too, and their government is sort of like that of Wilhelm II, only less reasonable and more militaristic and expansionist. Then again, there had always been reconciliationist parties in both countries; in the event of a strong common threat, an alliance might become possible, but not right now.

4. What powers the economy and how industrialized is Chernigov?

It has been industrialising rapidly, especially recently, though agriculture still is very important in a good way. Note that the south and the east are more industrial, while the north is generally more agrarian, though it has its industrial centres as well. Also, maritime commerce is very important, which is another reason to go for the Straits.

5. How is the government of Chernigov set up? Total autocracy or a more enlightened despotism?

Parliamentary monarchy, but with a strong royal prerogative.

Any overly important leaders in its history would also be cool to note. :mischief:

Askold and Dir (especially Askold) are something like founding fathers, having created the Polanian state (or so the records say, anyway). The present dynasty can trace its roots to Askold, though they aren't the main line by far. It had split off from that line under a Prince Mstislav I; hence the dynasty is called the Mstislavichi. Sadly, Mstislav was pretty unremarkable.

Vsevolod II was the one who carefully played the Mongols, his own boyars and other factions in the late 13th century, paving the way to Chernigov's replacement of Kiev and unification of Polania.

Izyaslav I the Wrathful ruled in the early 17th century. He killed a lot of people (mostly boyars, heretics, Catholics and Turkic tribal leaders) in exciting and painful ways and, along with some capable advisers, forced through various reforms that led to the creation of a centralised state with a new, loyal nobility and an improved army.

Mstislav IV ruled in the early 19th century and introduced numerous modernising social, economical, admistrative and agrarian reforms to stimulate economical development of the southern regions, as well as the industrialisation in the general. He was also responsible for the creation of a Chernigovian reichstag and is considered the father of the fleet (there was a fleet earlier, ofcourse, but it was pretty pathetic). He died young, before he could carry out any more great projects, or make any serious blunders, so he is greatly beloved by most political factions to this day.

das, what's the internal situation of Italy? Economy, welfare, and other thing like this. And the tech level?

It's pretty poor, though partly industrialised. Living conditions are mediocre at best, for most of the population at least. Technologically it is somewhat lagging behind most other European nations, though not by too far.
 
das, you are my god. Great job, you really gave me an indepth feel for it :D

silver, what stats do you want to do the least? I'll try my hand at those when the time comes for stat making.
 
Another group of questions: How is structured Italian governement? What's the political setting of governement and population? Does the nation and population have irredentist aim to remaining northern Italy and Sicily? How are the relations with Sicily? How generally are Italian relations with other nations? How's the religious setting?
 
Nation Name: Ming China
Capital: Chengdu
Ruler: Random revolutionary leader
Government: Monarchy
Culture: Neo-confucianist and nationalistic movements are currently thriving.
Technology level: Backwards.
Technology description: The Mongols, Portuguese, and Japanese greatly weakened China and indirectly started a Neo-Confucian movement, so China was unable to catch up technologically.
Army: 20 infantry, 2 cavalry
Army Level: 5
Army Description: China's army is currently mostly made up of poorly trained volunteers. Although it's not that big right now, nationalism could enable it to recruit huge armies in a relatively short time.
Navy: 5 (obsolete) wooden river warships
Navy level: 1
Navy Description: Ming China never had a significant navy, and most its ships were all decimated by more advanced Japanese and Portuguese battleships.
Air force:
Air force level:
Air force description:
Military Upkeep:
Economy (Base/Manufacturing/Trade/Total/Banked): 1/2/3/6/0
Land Area: 6
Infrastructure: Poor
Bureaucracy: Good
Population Level: 21
Education: Mostly illiterate
Living Standards: Horrendous
Confidence: Nation personified
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep):
Nation Background: China was conquered by the Qing, who's dynasty lasted for a long time. After a successful revolution, the Qing allied themselves with the Portuguese and Japan to reconquer China. The Ming recently rebelled again and a war with the Qing seems imminent.



I had to hurry, but it looks pretty accurate.
 
I remember when this first popped up, but don't remember much else. As such, Das, would you mind giving a recount of the status of Flanders and how, exactly, it came to dominate over the more northerly Dutch?


Also, I don't know TTL very well, but Portugal does look a little overpowered, particularly the trade centre at Coimbra. The existence of a major city at the mouth of the Ebro is also rather striking, especially given the existence of extremely large and inhospitable wetlands in the delta.

EDIT: Shouldn't the Brazil equivalent be more economically powerful? Also, shouldn't the Buenos Aires equivalent be some sort of economic centree?
 
The ruleset is posted on the first page. I would appreciate suggestions. Largely stolen from das, EQ, Israelite and Head Serf
 
I would combine land area and population into an almagated size stat (see the rules I posted in my preview thread for an overview of how this works). The army, navy, airforce, and technology descriptions seem unnecessary (how would these even work?). Living standards also seems completely unnecessary. Bureaucracy would probably be better re-named as efficiency (there is more to a governmen'ts efficiency than just the amount of bureacracy). The economy seems incredibly overcomplicated. Considering that you aren't using special cities or other sources of extra eco, I'd suggest you reduce it to an income stat and a bank stat.
 
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