Symphony D.
Deity
Reminds me of the line that probably should've convinced me by itself that the Culture series isn't so good.
Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission
- Thread starter Disenfrancised
- Start date
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I'm not sure I follow?
Symphony D.
Deity
Excession, Iain M. Banks:
Ulver Siech: "It looks like a dildo!"
Churt Lyne: "That's appropriate. Armed, it can [fsck] solar systems."
Ulver Siech: "It looks like a dildo!"
Churt Lyne: "That's appropriate. Armed, it can [fsck] solar systems."
Illosian Ship Design Aesthetic
Split roughly in two:
Service ships (Cargo, constructor, repair and other non-combat dedicated ships)
Complete lack of symmetry, bulky and put together with what is cheapest and strongest. Plenty of pipes, cooling radiators and so forth are exposed. Built on a roughly cylindrical basis though some of the larger cargo ships are more flying boxes than anything else.
Military/Specialist Ships
All built around a cylindrical structure base. Tend to have a 3 fold rotational symmetry (wings for weapons or sails etc). As smooth as computationally possible, absolutely no hard corners, although the structures can taper to sharp points. Tend to be built in one flowing structure as opposed to segmented.
Split roughly in two:
Service ships (Cargo, constructor, repair and other non-combat dedicated ships)
Complete lack of symmetry, bulky and put together with what is cheapest and strongest. Plenty of pipes, cooling radiators and so forth are exposed. Built on a roughly cylindrical basis though some of the larger cargo ships are more flying boxes than anything else.
Military/Specialist Ships
All built around a cylindrical structure base. Tend to have a 3 fold rotational symmetry (wings for weapons or sails etc). As smooth as computationally possible, absolutely no hard corners, although the structures can taper to sharp points. Tend to be built in one flowing structure as opposed to segmented.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Unfortunately a streamlined cylinder motif is optimal for many functions.
qoou
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
- 1,991
Spreadsheet stuff:
- Infrastructure lost is affected by defending army hp.
- The stealth calculator says "H70-H71" where it should be "H70+H71"; right now detect is bad. Same with scanners in the same cells.
- Veterans have better defense than elites.
- What exactly does "Stealth mission success" mean? Or rather, what happens if it doesn't succeed? Proceed to normal combat?
- You mentioned atmospheres provide shielding/armor. What about ships that have entered the atmosphere (and are providing air superiority)?
The stereotypical power suit guerrilla force, not too effective against any prepared foes (as expected). I'm assuming of course that Stealth makes them hard to attack, because otherwise they're useless. But with their 11 Stealth they will rip through anything with low detect. Make them elites and their attack goes from 5x9 to 7x10 and their stealth goes up another point.
- Infrastructure lost is affected by defending army hp.
- The stealth calculator says "H70-H71" where it should be "H70+H71"; right now detect is bad. Same with scanners in the same cells.
- Veterans have better defense than elites.
- What exactly does "Stealth mission success" mean? Or rather, what happens if it doesn't succeed? Proceed to normal combat?
- You mentioned atmospheres provide shielding/armor. What about ships that have entered the atmosphere (and are providing air superiority)?
Spoiler Spartans :
The stereotypical power suit guerrilla force, not too effective against any prepared foes (as expected). I'm assuming of course that Stealth makes them hard to attack, because otherwise they're useless. But with their 11 Stealth they will rip through anything with low detect. Make them elites and their attack goes from 5x9 to 7x10 and their stealth goes up another point.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
No its affected by the damage they've been dealt.
Fixed.
Well they are different things?
you successfully perform the stealth mission you wanted to do. If you fail the other guy gets an attack round in.
If they're providing air superiority ship combat is over.
Avoiding being attacked is a stealth mission you can perform.
Fixed.
Well they are different things?
you successfully perform the stealth mission you wanted to do. If you fail the other guy gets an attack round in.
If they're providing air superiority ship combat is over.
Avoiding being attacked is a stealth mission you can perform.
qoou
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2007
- Messages
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Well yes, but that damage is affected by the defending army's max hp.
Right, SODs would probably be ill-suited at firing at already-in-atmosphere ships. Silly question.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
qoou post a background you schlub. I will call you progressively worse names as time goes on.
Sorry I've been AWOL lately. Catching up avidly.
Sorry I've been AWOL lately. Catching up avidly.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Repost of my aesthetic in case it got lost, with minor additions:
The Standardite Fleet, such as it was, was a combination of outdated military surplus, captured pirate ships, and commandeered merchant vessels, which were subsequently stripped for parts in a dozen different town-workshops in the foothills of Standard and combined into new ships. This gives the resulting ships a sort of clever asymmetry, and often multiple redundant systems, which ended up being a net positive in space combat.
The ships are not graceful or streamlined, with bulky components strapped on and patched together. The result is an angular, compact design, protective and dangerous looking but not pretty. Inorganic integration of different drives and systems during salvage/construction often results in an off-center switchblade appearance on the combat ships.
---
I'm going to need to edit some of my ship designs now that fission drives are nerfed.
I'm still incredibly unhappy with Maneuvering Jets. At Propulsion 5, a refined Maneuvering Jet adds 0 dodge to a small (<20 size/mass) fighter. Upping it to 2 Maneuvering Jets manage to boost it to an exciting...still 0 dodge.
The Standardite Fleet, such as it was, was a combination of outdated military surplus, captured pirate ships, and commandeered merchant vessels, which were subsequently stripped for parts in a dozen different town-workshops in the foothills of Standard and combined into new ships. This gives the resulting ships a sort of clever asymmetry, and often multiple redundant systems, which ended up being a net positive in space combat.
The ships are not graceful or streamlined, with bulky components strapped on and patched together. The result is an angular, compact design, protective and dangerous looking but not pretty. Inorganic integration of different drives and systems during salvage/construction often results in an off-center switchblade appearance on the combat ships.
---
I'm going to need to edit some of my ship designs now that fission drives are nerfed.
I'm still incredibly unhappy with Maneuvering Jets. At Propulsion 5, a refined Maneuvering Jet adds 0 dodge to a small (<20 size/mass) fighter. Upping it to 2 Maneuvering Jets manage to boost it to an exciting...still 0 dodge.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
What are the component list you're using? Sounds very suspect, since at tech 5 a jet is giving +6 dodge.
Also asymmetrical ships is an instant fail, do not pass go, situation.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
I'm using v12. Would you take a look at the code?
Regarding asymmetry, why do you care? Too much wind resistance?
If you're really going to be snarky about this (and you are) then how about this: They usually have bilateral symmetry when viewing down the z-axis, but not necessarily along the x and y-axes. It seems like the x-axis is the vector from which we view the 2-D ship graphics, so it'll appear asymmetrical from that angle.
Regarding asymmetry, why do you care? Too much wind resistance?
If you're really going to be snarky about this (and you are) then how about this: They usually have bilateral symmetry when viewing down the z-axis, but not necessarily along the x and y-axes. It seems like the x-axis is the vector from which we view the 2-D ship graphics, so it'll appear asymmetrical from that angle.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I have had a look at the bloody code, users should report the exact damn circumstances of their problem.
I was joking before, but now I don't think you understand the issue at play here; a reaction drive ship needs to be radially symmetrical around its thrust axis, but does not have to be along said axis. A bilaterally symmetrical z-axis can still be stupidly wrong. Talking Cartesian coordinates is missing the point, since there are unlimited number of xy longitudinal cuts you could make.
I was joking before, but now I don't think you understand the issue at play here; a reaction drive ship needs to be radially symmetrical around its thrust axis, but does not have to be along said axis. A bilaterally symmetrical z-axis can still be stupidly wrong. Talking Cartesian coordinates is missing the point, since there are unlimited number of xy longitudinal cuts you could make.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
2x Deuterium Drive, 1x Pulse Drive, 1x Ion Cannon (refined), 1x Mirror Sail
has the same dodge (6) with 1x or 2x Maneuvering Jets added, refined, at all Propulsion tech levels up to 10.
has the same dodge (6) with 1x or 2x Maneuvering Jets added, refined, at all Propulsion tech levels up to 10.
qoou
Emperor
- Joined
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Dodge has a cap; if you want to pass it, you have to add on things like Water Suspension and Hibernation Pods. I was very excited when I first noticed how cheap and low-tech an 8-dodge 7-IP fighter is. Well, with Pellet Fusion Cores that is.
Edit:
@no one in particular: A naked 10-dodge 7-IP PFC fighter only costs 35e refined in v10. Sounds marginally useful, especially if coupled with some fleet init (or jammers). Though I'm sure that 10-dodge will stop sounding as amazing as we progress into the tech tree. And as people manage to slowly scrape up orbital elevators... blech enough of that, I'm starting to salivate at the thought of fleets of hundreds of mass-produced 10-dodge 10-IP fighters swarming around a handful of gargantuan capital ships.
Edit2:
Speaking of that, I just noticed: the IP/dodge caps no longer count how many components of each kind affect it in v12. For example, 1 thermal rocket will have the same effect on the cap as 100 thermal rockets.
Which means you can build 9-dodge 14-IP ships in V12 with just 12e and Constr 4 (or 7-dodge, 10-IP with Constr 3). Sure they can only fly close to stars, and aren't terribly useful, but showing off your massive IP is a good enough purpose.
Edit3:
I was messing around with the masslessness of Thermal Rockets and I ran into an interesting scenario. Removing Water Suspension from a ship design changed dodge from +8 to -6. Working fully as it should, but funny.
Thlayli
Le Pétit Prince
Oh. I thought the cap just applied to IP speed.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
I am going to make an angry face now - has all your whining been due to not knowing there is a GODDAMN dodge cap? SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN IN SINCE V6 AND IS LISTED IN THE CHANGE LOG.
How exactly are you producing these? The thermal rocket should lower the dodge cap, not raise it?
qoou
Emperor
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Right, but due to the changes, 1 thermal rocket lowers the cap just as much as 10. And since thermal rockets (refined) are massless, all you have to do is stack a few and add cap-raising components to get ships that are obscenely light, fast, and useless.
Edit:
To answer the "exactly" part:
1 Solar Array (refined)
1 Pulse Drive (refined)
10 Thermal Rockets (refined)
1 Hibernation Pod (refined)
1 Water Suspension
Edit2:
Just noticed that Ion Drives are also massless, which lets you push this up to 9-dodge 16-IP if you sacrifice practicability further.
Edit3:
9 Thermal Rockets (refined)
1 Cargo Bay
1 Water Suspension
12 IP / 8 dodge / 4 cargo space
Could be useful. Though I currently see thermal rockets as too situational to refine.
Disenfrancised
Beep Beep
Well you can get dodge 9 with water suspension and pods quite easily just using 5 x Deuterium (ref), 5 x Pulse Drives (ref), which certain seems a hair more practical.
Dodge 9 space fighters are pretty straightforward if pricy:
SS Dragonfly D9
5 x Metal Capacitors (Ref)
13 x Pulse Drive (Ref)
1 x Hibernation Pods (Ref)
1 x Water Suspension (Ref)
5 x Computer Modules (Ref)
1 x Radiators (Ref)
1 x Coilgun
1 x Ion Cannon
1 x Confinement Field
4 x Carbon Armour (Refined)
Dodge 9 space fighters are pretty straightforward if pricy:
SS Dragonfly D9
5 x Metal Capacitors (Ref)
13 x Pulse Drive (Ref)
1 x Hibernation Pods (Ref)
1 x Water Suspension (Ref)
5 x Computer Modules (Ref)
1 x Radiators (Ref)
1 x Coilgun
1 x Ion Cannon
1 x Confinement Field
4 x Carbon Armour (Refined)
qoou
Emperor
- Joined
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Sure; I was more excited about the 14/16 IP though.
And actually, a practical design:
Magpie
4 Solar Array (refined)
13 Ion Drive
1 Hibernation Pod
1 Water Suspension
17 EW Broadcasters (refined)
15 IP / 9 dodge / 75 EW
15 IP means it can beat defending fleets in the arrival calculator. 17 X 75 EW means it can proceed to have its way with the poor planet/moon. 9 dodge means it's pretty unlikely to die; if int-heavy missile fleets are a worry, 2 comp modules + 1 scanner can be added on for 60e more, and a pebble net will fit too. 15 IP means nothing's going to stop it from leaving.
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