predesad & the quartermasters

[predesad]

Well, if you are the only one on a table, you get #1 spot.

yeah, but i would rather not get a #1 spot that way. My 100K game should claim #1, unless someone else submits for same settings, against only 2 games in the table, which is part of the reason i coasted through the end of that game, lack of competition.

besides that, the next 3 games I have planned currently have nobody on those tables, i didnt plan it that way, it just worked out according to what I felt was best for me for each difficulty / map size / victory type.

i will have to try to pick games for Diety / Sid that have entries on the table since i wont need specific levels or victory types

 

[Pentium]

I think there's no greater pleasure that doing something that hasn't been done (or at least reported) before.

 

[predesad]

well, that is a good point, being the first to win a certain type of game can be satisfaction in itself, didnt see it that way before

 

[predesad]

I have yet to get my map for the 20 K game, although i did find an alternative map back accident, it lacks only a river & eventually i might give it a try. anyway, i decided to go ahead with a demigod game, in order to stay on track witht he pentathlon i am trying it on a huge map, i need huge & large map games. it will be a diplomatic game, & i am trying an unconventional strategy which I am not going to totally reveal yet.

I chose rome & from the beginning I set up a 4 turn settler factory & have built nothing else except warriors & workers & a few barracks, oops, wfife says i gotta go, to be continued . . .

 

[predesad]

. . . so anyway, like I was saying before the wife made me go pay the car payment, I chose rome & from the beginning I set up a 4 turn settler factory & have built nothing else except warriors & workers & a few barracks. I have slightly over 2 workers per city and a ton of warriors, not exactly sure how many, but i was paying about 20 gold in unit support in despotism & i have in the neighborhood of 12-15 cities, guess that means between 60 - 80 units - 2 workers per city with 12-15 cities = about 40 - 50 warriors.

Very early in the game I started a prebuild for Great Library, I don't normally build the GL, & have only done so once since playing on regent level and reading that wonder addiction article, but this wonder fits with my strategy. I researched pottery, traded for masonry (to get palace for prebuild), then 50 turned my way to writing. then I researched literacy at a pace to time it so that I discovered it right when my prebuild ran out. Unfortunatley, on a huge map the palace cost is still only 300 shields with my current number of cities, so I still need around 100 shields, i was using this tactic to prevent myself from being extorted for literature and losing the GL.

I have about 8 turns for the GL right now, I know several civs have at least fuedalism since they are building Sun Tzu's, & at least one has Monarchy. I have 9 opponents on this huge 60% H2O map, all the scientific civs, so I am very hopeful of getting Engineering also from the GL, the last time I built it, IIRC, every civ researched directly to Education in the MA & I didnt get anything not lying on that path. I also want republic as I am hoping to use this government.

The map is wonderful, with several food bonuses around my core, capable of 2 settler factories, & once I revolt (which will be as soon as I get republic) I should also be able to operate a couple 2 turn worker factories. Right now, the spot that would be a second settler factory is being used for the GL. I hoped, & I was right so far, that with 1 - 4 turn factory I would be able to keep up decently in expansion on a huge 60% map. there is still tons of room around me, except directly south (Russia) and North (Greece). Also, in my vicinity were 5 luxuries (ivory, incense, wines, silks, furs) which I easily claimed, and gems are not too distant & I might make a bid for them yet.

I am at the southern part of the pangea, with only Russia to the south of me. My plan is to get the GL, grab all those techs, find iron near me (if no iron game is a wash prolly because I am very dependent on this) stop building warriors, start building trebs (if/when i get Engineering) upgrade to a bunch of Legions & eliminate Russia, netting a GA. Depending on how my expansion goes in the west (I started near the east coast) I should then have a decent size empire to undertake the next part of my strategy.

I am not really going to concentrate much on that because so many things could go wrong with the first part. I could be extorted for literature and even with 8 turns left, lose the GL. I could lose the GL because some other civ discovers literature and trades it around (unlikely) Greece could DoW on me. The Ottomans or Babylon, the next closest neighbors, could DoW on me and preventative measures fail (pay for peace ASAP or MA with Greece for a buffer), no iron i my vicinity, delay in Engineering for cats instead of trebs, or even severely underestimate Russia and be unable to handle them at this point in the game, several other things I hav enot even thought of. I hope to add a pic soon, in the meantime, wish me luck in my quest to become Secretary-General.

 

[Pentium]

Huge Diplo? In what year are you going to finish?

Of course, good luck!

 

[predesad]

Well, I may drop the huge demigod diplo, because i finally got my map for huge monarch 20k, so i wont need another huge victory, i have already picked large for emporer space race, so I can do the demigod diplo on any map size, but i think i might play through for awhile to see how well i do since i like the map, just depends on if my strategy works. I did manage to get the GL built, got all AA techs except republic & I also got mono & feud, but not engineering. I am undecided if i want to hold out for rep, because i have so mnay units, i think i'll build markets since i have currency now & see if i get rep soon, in the meantime i'll be upgrading warriors (iron directly above capitol) & hope for engineering too.

here's my 20K map, everything looks perfect for what i need as long as the coast on the west isnt another lake, gonna build capitol where my settler stands & 20K city on the other side of the lake next to the coast so that it grabs one of the wheat.

 

[Tone]

It looks a bit low on production IMHO. I hope you uncover some bgs under that jungle and some hills in the fog. Good luck!

 

[predesad]

It looks a bit low on production IMHO. I hope you uncover some bgs under that jungle and some hills in the fog. Good luck!

jungle netted 3 bgs, no hills in fog, but with the wheat + agr + irrigation I was up to 12 pop in no time, built a ton of workers from capitol top clear away jungle. After Colossus + Rep + temple I have to run only 20% lux & I think I get 16 uncorrupted shields, not great but decent. I would roll again but this is the first map i have got with a river + food bonus + ivory + coast for a 4 turn settler factory, fast growth 20K city, colossus, & SoZ. Now I need to double check my 4000 BC save to make sure all the settings were acceptable & decide if I want to continue my huge demigod diplo or scrap it for a smaller map, I prolly keep playing it after I finish 20 K to see how it goes & start running mapfinder for my large emporer space as Russia, then when I get a good map for that I might try running a smaller map for demigod diplo & if i get something really good & my huge game doesnt go so well change over.

 

[Tone]

I think most of the successful attempts use the Babylonians for their cheap temples and libraries. Get any early temple in before your first wonder build and you're soon pulling in 4cpt due to the 1000yr bonus. I can see the attraction of the agricultural trait though; it's really the most powerful game trait IMO. Have you had any luck with SGLs?

 

[predesad]

i always turn sgl off, i know it could do a lot for 20K, but i dont like sgl's. i am dedictated to trying a different civ for each game for the quartermasters & already used babylon for 100K. in 20K city i started off with granary, then temple, colossus, SoZ, GL. I think I am going to quit this one, even though getting ivory on a desirable map has been an issue, the land mass I am on is just too small, its an arch map.

 

[Tone]

I once tried a 20K attempt using PtW with the Celts hoping for lots of (military) great leaders. They are a bit fairer as you can do plenty every turn to try and get one and the luck should even out a bit more over the period of a game. I just feel that the end game stretches out too much if you have no chance of rushing a wonder or two. However you miss out on some of the new features if you play vanilla/PtW but this is another game set up I'd like to try again at some point in the future. I'll probably try a larger map though to gain more victims for GL generating possiblities.

 

[predesad]

I would have no problem using MGL's to rush wonders under the earlier versions, but the SGL's are too unbalanced. What really turned me off SGL's is I was in a PBEM once & had an alliance with another player. We were up about 6-8 techs on the other two players, until one of them researched an optional tech we had neglected, got an SGL, built the GL . . . Ever since that incident I always play with them off. I have nothing against players who use them and even continually start new games until they get an early one, it's just something I don't feel comfortable doing, kinda like some players refuse to use the free palace jump. I think the % of getting an SGL should be dependent more on how many techs you have that nobody else has (tech lead) rather than getting a single tech first.

On another note, I ran mapfinder the other night and got about 7 new maps to look at for my 20K game. The very last one I discovered 3 ivory resources just as I was finishing up bronze working. It's a pretty nice map, except my 20K city is a bit further from the capitol than I would have liked. I took a pic last night, but forgot to save it after I quit playing, I'll try to post it later. I am going to use this new map for huge monarch 20K, then do a large emporer space race to wrap up the pentathlon. Then go back to demigod diplomatic for machi-whatever & octathlon (will later try to add diety & sid for full octathlon) I am still uncertain about continuing my huge map game, but I have so much time invested in it & things are going well so I hate to blow it off, especially since if everything has gone so well for me so far in that game.

 

[Tone]

I do like the idea of rewarding scientific research but I agree that SGLs are too unbalanced. Personally I play with them on for HoF games but I play on whether I get one or not. Several of my submissions have failed to spawn a single SGL, let alone an AA one. The cheap Pyramids is a clear game-breaker and can make such a difference so I can understand why people play for it . You have an interesting idea BTW which would help redress the balance a little. I wonder what civ IV has in store for us in this respect!

I can also relate to the milking dilemma. I started a Huge map a while ago but did not select max % land as it was my intention that it would just be a practice/learning game. :shakehead However it's gone rather better than I would have expected and I'm loath to throw away the hours that I've invested so far. I think that I've decided to finish it when I have time and hopefully get a fairly reasonable entry on the histographic table. I can always return for another attempt at a later date.

 

[predesad]

My new 20K game has gone well so far, huge arch 80% water as the celts on monarch difficulty. I started by building 1 warrior then a settler, warrior quickly scouted around & found a coastal river site w/ a food bonus, actually 2 - wheat on grass, the only question that remained about the map was ivory. I researched bronze working first & right before finishing that my exploring warrior stumbled across ivory. Quickly my capitol operating as a 4 turn settler factory sent a settler out to claim it (not that there was any real hurry, I am alone on my island) I also built several coastal cities in preparation to build curraghs after alphabet was researched.

I built a granary in Alesia (20K city) first, even though that was a questionable decision, but I wanted to get to 12 citizens ASAP. Then I built a temple, but did not pop rush it. Then started on Colossus, I dont have any dates handy right now.

After bronze working, my research was alphabet, masonry, math & writing. Somewhere while along this path I sunk many curraghs, but finally made it across at 2 different spots, one in the north after a couple nonsuicide island hops, & one just a little south of me. To the south I found the Mongols on an island alone & the Inca & Chinese sharing another landmass. Eventually I would also be able to find the Arabs off the Mongols coast, they were also isolated on an island.

I traded for mysticism & went for the Oracle. I really wanted to build either SoZ next & if I had my way I would have put off the Oracle until even after the GL, but I knew (well, didnt know, but had a strong feeling from experience) that the Oracle would go fast, so it was build it now or lose the chance. The same goes for pyramids, it would go fast, but since it would have given me an instant GA i had decided to skip it. I got the Oracle then started on SoZ.

Meanwhile, concerning research I went for literature, code of laws, philosophy and claimed republic for free. After this I traded for iron working & started on construction.

After SoZ I built a library then the GL, which instantly (well, not instantly, but the next turn) gave me The Wheel, Horseback Riding, & Polytheism. Meanwhile I was prebuilding for Hanging Gardens & hoping the ToA would hold out and not cascade before I could finish it. After a few turns, the Inca had Monarchy, but nobody else. Since I could be patient with a prebuild going, I was & didnt try to trade for it. Eventually, the Arabs also discovered Monarchy, I got it from the GL & was able to net Hanging Garden kicking off my GA.

About this time I think I was finishing up on currency. I prolly shoulda rushed a colosseum after HG, but I had my heart set on getting Sistines during my GA. This is where I am right now, 9 turns from Sistine with 11 or 12 left of my GA, already researched feudalism, monotheism, & theology, 3 or 4 turns left on Education.

I researched Feudalism simply so I could build some pikes because I was planning to invade the Inca, they have the 'other' GL & I want it to continue island hopping & expand my empire, although I will have astronomy soon anyway, the extra movement will prolly come in handy trying to locate the remaining civs I have yet to contact (Amercia, Zulu, & Aztecs)

I am far ahead in tech, none of my contacts had either of currency or construction which will be long researches, plus everyone also likes at least one more tech, in addition nobody has republic which will also distract them before entering the MA. Despite Inca & China sharing an island, they arent helping each other in research, they have been at war with each other as long as I have known them. The Inca blessed with the Lighthouse, has made their way to the MOngol island & settled there, but the Mongols are very backward having yet to discover writing or math.

My plan is to claim the GL form the Inca as well as the Pyramids & of course wipe them out, guess I might take China with them since I wont want to try to defend those corrupt cities I'll build there when they finally get to Riders. The Mongols will also go simply by virtue of their being next to me & I figure I will need all 3 of these wars to get any leaders since I am not militaristic & this is a low level game.

Most of my cities are set up or are being set up as fishing villages. ONly 3 cities are not coast based & they are exclusively responsible for military, each having a barracks.

20K build summary:

granary
temple
colossus
oracle
statue of zeus
library
great library
hanging gardens
sistine's chapel (in progress)

I figure it will be a very long time before I have any competition for wonders, the only real wonder question I have is should I build KT elsewhere or in 20K, prolly elsewhere. My plan is Sistine's, uni, cath, coll, Copernicus, Shakes, J.S. Bach, Newton's, Magellan's, Smith's, any small wonders available i will work in if I am fortunate enough to get a leader, I also need to work in the FP sometime soon.

After I eliminate Mongols, Inca, & China & contact more civs, I will proly then start selling tech or even gifting in the hopes that I could get a little hepl with research, but I will also make sure I am way ahead on the wonder race by then, leaving them only GW, Sun Tzu's, & LW.

 

[predesad]

finally finished my 20K game, seemed to take forever in terms of RL & playing time. I did myself no favors by warmongering to leader farm to rush small wonders, if i had to do it over, i might skip the wars & this the small wonders altogether since they have such low culture, it would add a couple turns, but save me tons of time. I plan a brief write up once it is accepted.

Next in line is Large Emporer Space Race as Russia. I have 90+ maps for this game, mostly because I have some strict requirements, not just for the map, but also for same game events & I anticipate rejecting about 2/3 of the maps & then several more games on acceptable maps will also end up abandoned if things dont go exactly right.

One thing I am looking for is 2 4-turn settler factories, as Russia that will most liikely mean 2 food bonuses in 2 different locations, yet close enough so tat corruption does not prevent the operation of the second settler factory. In addition to demanding 2 settler factory sites from my maps, I want to pop not 1, but 2 settlers. My plan will be to build a few scouts then set up my first settler factory (worker, granary) in the very early turns, I hope to pop a settler, then before my settler factory builds its first settler, pop the 2nd settler. Once a 4 turn settler factory builds the first settler I am almost guarnateed to not be eligible to pop a settler for the duration of the game due to the goody hut restrictions: I will almost always have a settler running around & I will quickly outgrow the other civs. If I do not get 2 popped settlers by then I will save the game & start anew. In the meantime I will prolly keep generating maps because I have even stricter requirements than those I have mentioned, I want the scientific triple shot which is only possible with Russia.

In the end, if I repetitively fail to get the desired results, I will just play the best map / game I have saved. I hope to keep a more accurate log than previously because I think this will be a fun game with some of the tactics I have in mind.

 

[Tone]

What was your final date and score, if you don't mind me asking?

The two settlers is going to be difficult but good luck with it. On emperor you stand a reasonable chance with so many attempts available as whilst you are building your granary you should become eligible to get a settler again. (Do you have to have less than the average number of towns plus no settlers in production or in play?)

Scientific triple shot? I presume that means taking a MA tech from Philosophy after getting first tier techs from the other civs. How do you get Republic? Research it or wait for an AI to get it?

 

[predesad]

What was your final date and score, if you don't mind me asking?

The two settlers is going to be difficult but good luck with it. On emperor you stand a reasonable chance with so many attempts available as whilst you are building your granary you should become eligible to get a settler again. (Do you have to have less than the average number of towns plus no settlers in production or in play?)

Scientific triple shot? I presume that means taking a MA tech from Philosophy after getting first tier techs from the other civs. How do you get Republic? Research it or wait for an AI to get it?

1772 AD, ~ 4000 pts

I am pretty sure to pop a settler you can have equal to the average number of cites, so it is less than or equal to

scientific triple shot is just what you said, unsure about researching republic or counting on AI, that didnt work out well for me in a PBEM recently

 

[killercane]

Im not sure that you can really play for that 2nd popped settler on emperor if you dont delay expansion. The AI probably wont get cities up that fast to allow it, and you might be better off skipping huts after the first settler until youve gained the first tier techs from the other AIs.

On the scientific triple shot with the Russians, Ive tried the rush to democracy (assuming the lucky slingshot will take you to astronomy) and compared it with a straight republic slingshot, and the republic seemed to win out. The 4 techs you need to research in despotism take simply too long. Just food for thought.

 

[Tone]

I am pretty sure to pop a settler you can have equal to the average number of cites, so it is less than or equal to

Yes, you must be correct because you can pop a settler early on in the lower levels when all have one city.

scientific triple shot is just what you said, unsure about researching republic or counting on AI, that didnt work out well for me in a PBEM recently

I've played some Emperor games recently and have been able to rely on the AI for virtually nothing! This was on a standard map with 7 rivals so with a bit more room they may be able to help you out but unconvinced. If you are going to try Fuedalism your cities must remain small but it could be worth a try but it may end up costing you the time you saved in getting that far into the AA in that they will all research the government techs but will not research invention and your research capacity could be lower. Still it will pay for all of those workers scurrying around and has given me something to think about.