Prehistoric Era Revamp
- Thread starter KaTiON_PT
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Thank you.
@KaTiON_PT there are two isolated tech groups (no arrow connections between these techs and rest of tech tree)!
This is one of things, that you wanted to prevent with your revision (no graphical discontinuity in tech tree).
First one starts with Cave Dwelling and it ends with Raft Building. This tech leads to Spearfishing.
Second one starts with Language and ends with Theft/Conduct. These lead to Warfare/Barter.
This is one of things, that you wanted to prevent with your revision (no graphical discontinuity in tech tree).
First one starts with Cave Dwelling and it ends with Raft Building. This tech leads to Spearfishing.
Second one starts with Language and ends with Theft/Conduct. These lead to Warfare/Barter.
Spoiler :
Then that would mean everyone had to pick nomadic lifestyle as their first tech, which people also disliked.
I think these Bead Making/Ceremonial Burial and subsequent techs could be flipped, then you could push Conduct one column to right and then switch Bater prereqs to create arrow connection to Conduct
Animism could have arrow connection to Pictographs.
These branches then would visually merge here.
Cave Dwelling one seems to be tricker. Maybe swap each of its prereqs to connect tech separately to main branch?
Cave Dwelling then could lead to one of Shelter Building related prereqs.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I personally have never seen the need for Preh Era to start with a "lifestyle" Tech like we now artificially do with all other Eras.
I also stopped researching Nomadic Tech in favor of researching Native Language a long time ago too. Getting wanderers 1st is Not as big a deal as the supporters of researching Nomadic 1st say it is. Even when we only had 2 Tech paths to use for game start, for me getting that initial Research boost imhpo was more important at game start. Not my fault that the Team went with exaggerated GS which Pushes the Need to get Wanderers 1st over research. And even so Wanderers don't last much longer than Stone Throwers from my experience either. So another reason for not researching Nomadic 1st.
I'm adapting to the new 3 path choice for a start Tech. Heck look back at vanilla BtS. You had what, 6 techs to chose from at game start. And vanilla BtS Tech progression was all over the place. Unless you wanted Conquest Victory condition.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Just because there are no primary OR prereqs linking to these side branches that start from the beginning doesn't mean that there aren't AND prereqs that link them. I don't see a problem here.
I know, that's why I called it purely graphical discontinuity, and not real error.
I managed to make three visually separate branches to go trough entire era, now it looks better for me.
Now I can try to move techs around Y axis so thinner ones will be on bottom and top.
That is there is tech tree sandwich in Prehistoric era
Now I can try to move techs around Y axis so thinner ones will be on bottom and top.
That is there is tech tree sandwich in Prehistoric era
@KaTiON_PT what do you think about prehistoric era tech tree being organized like this?
Only Y locations were swapped, and prereqs that make arrows were swapped around.
Only Y locations were swapped, and prereqs that make arrows were swapped around.
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I already did it, I committed it now.
It was pretty quick thing to do, as it was mainly moving bulk a bit, and adding/removing techs from it.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Through a great deal of thought and effort and negotiation, let's say Kation has got the Prehistoric right. Now, in spite of Tbrd calling you on it, you are still proposing to bugger it up again for the sake of some insane aesthetic criterion (ie. so it looks pretty)
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sounds like it's purely moving things around on the y axis and adjusting the primary OR prereq so that there's a stronger visual interconnectivity. If anything moved on X that could be an issue, particularly if it's not being recost, but I trust @raxo2222 is aware of that, right Rax? If it's almost entirely aesthetic, I don't mind. Kation is in charge of this particular project so if he's cool with it, I'm cool with it.
He's cool with that.
Also I changed Y positions in tech tree only - didn't move any techs along X.
I adjusted primary OR prereqs too - effectively tech requirements are unchanged.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
A little unit analysis already shows me that we are a bit late to bring in the wood spearman and we aren't leaving quite enough room between that and the next upgrade. Besides that there is some ambiguity as to the difference between carving and simple wood working that I think we can clear up here. This is my list of suggested adjustments regarding this particular issue:
I also notice that bone working requires carving and I can see why one would not want to move carving as a result. If that's the case, and for the same reason we don't want carving to require sharpening, fine, but we still need to move the wood spearman units back to carving at least. Maybe if they were to require both carving and sharpening, we could get away with them still being technically more advanced than spiked clubs. If we do that, perhaps spiked clubs should get a transitional +10% combat bonus vs Melee units, to make them clearly a little superior directly against the wooden spears which are primarily an anti-animal melee unit. (They have the same base strength)
- Move Carving over +1 X to x8 - will adjust base costs of course.
- Move Wood Spears to Carving. They seem like something you'd have at a cruder step than the added stage of refinement you get at simple wood working. They shouldn't perhaps be in the same x grid as the spiked clubman, but this at least puts another x layer between them and the stone spearman and they can be really critical at helping to get rid of the really challenging animals eating your hunters.
- Carving should also require Sharpening - I just see a logical progression matter here. What are you carving with if you cannot sharpen your tools to an edge?
- Composite Tools should also require Flint Knapping. - Again, another logical progression. Even if you aren't knapping flint per se, learning to flake sharpen your stone tools rather than merely grinding to an edge against a larger rock seems a valid prereq to composite tools. This is a little debateworthy but if we don't adopt this, at LEAST we need to make Spear Making (or Stone Speartips - see below) require Flint Knapping, which it would inherit if Composite Tools requires it.
- Change the button icon on Sharpening to something that doesn't show a stone spearhead, which doesn't manifest until Spear Making.
- Rename Spear Making. We've had spears up to now but this is a stone spearhead stage, so perhaps exactly that: Stone Speartips
What do y'all think?
I also notice that bone working requires carving and I can see why one would not want to move carving as a result. If that's the case, and for the same reason we don't want carving to require sharpening, fine, but we still need to move the wood spearman units back to carving at least. Maybe if they were to require both carving and sharpening, we could get away with them still being technically more advanced than spiked clubs. If we do that, perhaps spiked clubs should get a transitional +10% combat bonus vs Melee units, to make them clearly a little superior directly against the wooden spears which are primarily an anti-animal melee unit. (They have the same base strength)
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Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I would have thought wood spears would have come at Controlled Fire since earliest hard points were made by putting long sticks in the fire and then rubbing the end into a point. Much better weapon/tool than just an unprocessed stick. However that may be a bit early.
You don't sharpen stone by grinding but by chipping or knapping. You do on almost every other material though.
You don't sharpen stone by grinding but by chipping or knapping. You do on almost every other material though.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I noticed Harems no longer give +2
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