Prehistoric Era Revamp

[raxo2222]

I noticed Harems no longer give +2.

Harems give +2 food, but they lose it with trade tech.

Spoiler :

 

[Thunderbrd]

You don't sharpen stone by grinding but by chipping or knapping. You do on almost every other material though.

You can though. Knapping is a little more advanced. Surely we didn't immediately figure that out and at first just sharpened by rubbing the stones and wood and whatever you're sharpening against a tougher flat stone until you had roughly a better edge. From our perspective now, it probably doesn't seem like much of a difference or an advancement but for them it might have taken a while for someone to figure out the idea of knapping a stone to make it super sharp.

Sharpening a wooden tip by flame... I suppose it could all fall under the sharpening tech. Does sharpening require controlled fire perhaps? Maybe it should?

Edit: looked at raxo's pic... polyganous?

 

[Yudishtira]

Polygynous/polygyny: multiple 'wives', as opposed to polyandrous/polyandry (multiple husbands). Two forms of polygamy - combining the two makes a third form.

 

[Harrier]

Harems give +2 food, but they lose it with trade tech.

Why was this change made? IMO it seems unnecessary and wrong. You don't go to a Harem to eat (well you may do as a side benefit).

I think the original benefits should be put back - +1 gold, +1 happiness., +2 disease (it was this in SVN 11007). Or is this mod becoming puritanical.

Raxo's spoiler does not show any disease icons being added.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why was this change made? IMO it seems unnecessary and wrong. You don't go to a Harem to eat (well you may do as a side benefit).

I think the original benefits should be put back - +1 gold, +1 happiness., +2 disease (it was this in SVN 11007). Or is this mod becoming puritanical.

Raxo's spoiler does not show any disease icons being added.

I agree. We have not generally used food for promiscuity, since babies aren't born from loaves of bread. It could reduce how much the city needs to grow, but that doesn't overcome the unhealth/food deficit, which is fine by me. I quite like the original arrangement.

 

[billw2015]

Why was this change made? IMO it seems unnecessary and wrong. You don't go to a Harem to eat (well you may do as a side benefit).

I think the original benefits should be put back - +1 gold, +1 happiness., +2 disease (it was this in SVN 11007). Or is this mod becoming puritanical.

Read the wikipedia introduction and see what you think. Its news to me, but based on the description +2 food is no more or less reasonable, and +2 disease makes basically no sense.

 

[Yudishtira]

Read the wikipedia introduction and see what you think. Its news to me, but based on the description +2 food is no more or less reasonable, and +2 disease makes basically no sense.

The game's Harems is nothing like that. It's more like a "state brothel", maintained by an autocratic "alpha male" for the purposes of rewarding allies and bribing threats.

 

[TaylorItaly]

I think you have misinterpreted Harems with Bordels ; Harems are one man have a lot of women , where a Bordel
is something men go in to have sex with women or men....

 

[KaTiON_PT]

You don't go to a Harem to eat (well you may do as a side benefit)

The idea was to make that building change its function after prehistory, from a growth building (representing the polygamous relationship with the alpha/chief) to a wealth one (ancient brothel).

It could reduce how much the city needs to grow

Tried that at first but I couldn't make the lower growth threshold bonus obsolete with Trade.

 

[Noriad2]

Nobody knows for sure what social structures were 200,000 years ago, but I think that the concept of "harem" may not really apply to small bands of homo sapiens walking around in Africa. If you want another source of food, perhaps rename the current "harem" to 'food sharing"? And maybe add harems to a later part of the tech tree.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Nobody knows for sure what social structures were 200,000 years ago, but I think that the concept of "harem" may not really apply to small bands of homo sapiens walking around in Africa. If you want another source of food, perhaps rename the current "harem" to 'food sharing"? And maybe add harems to a later part of the tech tree.

I think the idea is the early concubine collection that alpha males often gather and protect as their own mating stock, like what Deer and Baboons do, and presumably early humans would've done as well if you look at a lot of primate behaviors. Harems may not be the best naming for that. There may be a good way to put Harems into the game to represent more what the term actually indicates, the collections of slave girls that were used as negotiation tools and mates for royalty. As you said, that would be later on and would be culturally dependent.

So maybe Concubines might be the way to express this... Still, I don't like food being the representation because you aren't eating these people in the consumption sense. I can see how it wouldn't really be a contributing factor to disease... by some arguments, it might actually be a way to suppress the spread of disease among the tribe. What it boils down to in nature is an evolved mechanism resulting from male competition to strengthen the gene pool of descendants. Only the most successful males gain the right to breed, which is much like modern A/B testing in advertising where only the most successful ads will be promoted further. This isn't about increasing the birth rate really either... if anything it could decrease it some for the sake of quality over quantity.

So what would be a game effect method of expressing an improved gene pool in the Prehistoric age of C2C? hmm... I've been pondering this. So far I don't have a good answer.

Tried that at first but I couldn't make the lower growth threshold bonus obsolete with Trade.

Helps to understand the thinking.

 

[Harrier]

Why was this change made? IMO it seems unnecessary and wrong. You don't go to a Harem to eat (well you may do as a side benefit).

I think the original benefits should be put back - +1 gold, +1 happiness., +2 disease (it was this in SVN 11007). Or is this mod becoming puritanical.

If you do not like something, change the name of the building not its +/- benefits.

I really think changes to existing mod components should be discussed in a thread and not just be changed on a whim.

Although I am not on the latest SVN, the mod seems to be getting easier and easier to play - in fact I have now decided to give up playing and will wait to see what version 40 gives us.

A pity really, due to all the great work being done by the programmers now on the team.

Edit. Ignore the easier comment. I was not on the game settings I thought I was - sorry.

 

[Thunderbrd]

the mod seems to be getting easier and easier to play

I really don't think there's a significant change here so this seems a strange complaint to me. Therefore, I would ask you to elaborate in great detail please.

 

[Pepo]

The food bonus would relate to how women are treated as an economic asset working the lands of the husdband. In polygamic societies the more woman's you have the greater the output and the status, with polygamy being both a way to earn and a consequence of status

However the bonus itself makes no sense. There isn't an improvement of the methods of gathering food, rather a re-organization of labour in favour of the powerful or respected who can get more than one female. Thus the effect in game would probably be better represented with a gold bonus/commerce bonus, in the sense that the heads of the tribe would get richer from it. I wouldn't represented as a hammer bonus either because, unlike slavery, the woman's of the chief are allowed a far greater freedom, and they aren't forced to work on the land by coercion of force (although the argument can be make that classical slavery on agriculture it mainly gives economic advantages to the owner by getting a cheaper work force, not an actual increase of product)

Although true to be told I always found funny that in the mod you build alpha males as if they were robots make out of labour. If I remember correctly there was a an organisation civic that allows you to pick either patriarchy or matriarchy rigth? Why no depending on the civic you get different auto-builds that get better with techs? Example: if patriarchy is chosen, you get alpha male that gives a +Xbonus. Then when chiefdom or whatever tech is research, you get automatically a harem, that boost gold. If balanced properly with pros and cons, I believe it can be a cool addition

 

[Raven Destroyer]

I've noticed that the game is becoming easier to play, but probably not in the sense Harrier meant it, it finally starts to feel smooth to play with, maybe it's also partially it now running on an SSD on my end, but Mostly because of the Awesome work that has been put into the mod lately to make it a lot more smooth and responsive, so Thanks for the awesome efforts put into that

On the Harem thing, I Kinda like the change, when I noticed it I went Oh this isn't bad any more, though I'd also agree that Food probably isn't a good bonus to apply to it, at least not in it's current form, though that said I don't really have an answer to what it should be, my knowledge of things doesn't go back that far,

 

[JosEPh_II]

I've noticed that the game is becoming easier to play, but probably not in the sense Harrier meant it, it finally starts to feel smooth to play with, maybe it's also partially it now running on an SSD on my end, but Mostly because of the Awesome work that has been put into the mod lately to make it a lot more smooth and responsive, so Thanks for the awesome efforts put into that

On the Harem thing, I Kinda like the change, when I noticed it I went Oh this isn't bad any more, though I'd also agree that Food probably isn't a good bonus to apply to it, at least not in it's current form, though that said I don't really have an answer to what it should be, my knowledge of things doesn't go back that far,

The End of Turn Wait time has been significantly reduced so far by billw2015. And it has been needed for so long. it is my hope that billw can do more in this area. Thank you @billw2015 !

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Exactly what I meant, still in early Ancient but even here I notice it significantly, Turns are mostly instant or nearly instant, Tabbing in and out of the game is Actually possible without it causing issues, Loading the game and the Save isn't taking long at all,
all Very much things what held the mod back and can't wait to see what becomes possible due to it

 

[billw2015]

The End of Turn Wait time has been significantly reduced so far by billw2015. And it has been needed for so long. it is my hope that billw can do more in this area. Thank you @billw2015 !

Thanks, also @alberts2 made at least as much improvements here as I did.