Prepare to cringe - bad maps (deity)

[Whisker]

@krikav As none of the AIs have theology yet, risking priest pollution might not be that big an issue. Of course you need those small religious techs first, but I guess that should still be doable? What is your beg situation, could you get priesthood and poly from your pals and then research mono yourself?

 

[krikav]

@Whisker

Spoiler :

How nice of you to drop by!

I did beg some small cash from everyone at some point so can't beg (at least not yet)
Did not consider a theology bulb as tradebait, but thats certainly an option.

I might be abit pessimistic, but I still feel that the situation is abit outside of what I'm capable of handling.
I have a huge standing army that I won't be able to put to any use for a long time, and I have not secured a land advantage, the land I did secure wasn't extremly good either, and I'm miles behind in tech.

The save is attached, you are very much welcome to make a try and see if you can somehow lure out some hope from the situation!

 

[Whisker]

@Whisker

Spoiler :

How nice of you to drop by!

I did beg some small cash from everyone at some point so can't beg (at least not yet)
Did not consider a theology bulb as tradebait, but thats certainly an option.

I might be abit pessimistic, but I still feel that the situation is abit outside of what I'm capable of handling.
I have a huge standing army that I won't be able to put to any use for a long time, and I have not secured a land advantage, the land I did secure wasn't extremly good either, and I'm miles behind in tech.

The save is attached, you are very much welcome to make a try and see if you can somehow lure out some hope from the situation!

I would relish the chalenge. However as my computer gave up a ghost a month back and I won't be able to get a new one in atleast two more week, all I can do is theorise. So let's do that. Would gifting back cities to Nappy get him to neutral attitude and thus willing to trade techs again? If so continue with the drama plan and throw in the priests from madrassa. If you get scientist, great. If priest trade drama to those reli techs with Nappy and procede with theology. Theology besides being a trade bait opens up paper and further, more familiar pulping opportunies. That should get you back to the tech game and warfare you can do yourself much better than me. I only just got my first deity victory and dirty religious diplomacy at that, but hey one gotta start somewhere.

 

[krikav]

@Whisker

Spoiler :

Not at all bad theorizing!
Napoleon does trade techs already at cautious, so it would be no problem trading with him as well, and as he is somewhat set back due to the war and loss of cities, he would absolutely be a valuable springboard to trade techs with.
Getting him up to cautious won't be a problem I think, as the shared religion bonus persist.

I'm trying out bornincantaloupes game right now, and also want to get to the NC game, but will consider see if I can make some progress from this. Thanks for the feedback and encouragement!

 

[shakabrade]

Hi guys, a civ game after playing HOMM3 for some time.
This is actually my second take on this map.

Spoiler :

First was supposed to be an Axe rush but then I was bored by the fact that I did not play seriously (plus long distance to the target, probably that) and went back to try again with more normal game and roads in place for an army.

So the opening was the same in both games. First we lose 2 turns scouting for fish and then we farm that flood plain and go for BW before AH. Why BW, because BW allows us to chop them trees and in bad food start, it is best to find another city. In the meantime, warriors for aggressive fogbusting were produced. Stepping on hills, piggybacking behind AI units and dancing away from barbs and some luck when you have some chance to land next to barb allowed AI to deal with most of the barbs. I lost one warrior in first attempt and none in the 2nd.

Spoiler :

All that fogbusting was there to get this city spot (picture below). It was placed like this to take all the gold and that we can share one gold with helper city plus I already had Axe plus Cats warfare in mind. Those golds would be my economy for both okayish attack date and to keep up the conquest. Hence, it was the 2nd city. Fish + cow was a 3rd (GPP farm), stone + gold was fourth and (shared) cow plus riverside was 5th city. Actually 3 decent cities.

Spoiler :

Peaceweights pretty much define the future relations between SB and Nappy plus land target. Yeah, and Nappy did declare on SB relatively early. I was sort of happy because of that. It'd be better if Nappy declared when I had an army (he suicides his SoD onto SB and then I step in) but this was ok, slowing their tech pace is a win for me. My micro through the game was bad, and needed to reload to start a granary 3 times in a row (cause I have 4T autosave and then forget what I was doing when replaying turns). I wouldn't bother in the normal game, but some penny pinching can pay well on this kind of a map.

I did not really document this process that well, but it is important that SB founded a religion and spread to me and we managed to become friends later on.

Regarding research, I went for construction. Did not have GPP early enough for Maths bulb, and also needed quite a lot of units to fight Nappy. Trades were rare (traded for Maths with Aesthetics) and got maybe Sailing and IW.

While he was at war with SB, Nappy demanded Alphabet for a tribute. I refused. He declared. I was surprised. But I also already had piled half of my SoD by his border and his attack with one chariot and one sword was met by an Axe and a Spear. On the hill. I guess that's it. Actually great he attacked me as that saves me from -1 diplo with Cyrus. And then I assembled the Army and finally took some pictures.

Spoiler :

Lost maybe 7-9 catapults and an Axe. Using GG for experience on cats provided me with 4 accuracy cats and 2 CR2. That is like 8 cats for bombarding only. Better move than super medic, I'd say. My stack was also an overkill and I managed to split it in time to take all cities SB has worn down. I remember how I started my deity "career" by piggybacking an AIs. Still works.


State of the empire.

Spoiler :

I have 1GS for a bulb and one GP for GAge after cities come out of revolt. Still not sure whether to go Optics or just into Education and Oxford. AIs are slow globally, judging from the wonder dates. Although I am relatively backwards, I think this is a game won with 2 trading partners (friendly SB and always eager Cyrus) and nice land. I'll probably pursue Fighters plus Infantry/Marines or maybe Tanks plus Bombers. Probably 1700AD win and maybe I can avoid Cyrus for the whole game. Assessing the victory date is important because AI's can win culture in late 1700s and space in early 1800s and our Cyrus is definitely a contender.

 

[Fippy]

Great Shakabrade, a very good position now.
Which Homm3 maps did you play, or in general?`
I still very much like that game.

@krikav i decided to not continue my Sally game, knowing more about the surrounding land spoiled some fun.
Maybe you guys will have a map for me sometime.

 

[shakabrade]

Great Shakabrade, a very good position now.
Which Homm3 maps did you play, or in general?`
I still very much like that game.

Yeah, I really think it's won considering the global tech pace.
Maps I like are Impossible ones like Pestilence Lake on 200%. Really like that one. Or Random maps with strong monsters.
But I play only single player therefore I am really bad at the game. Don't really use hero chaining as much as I should. And started watching other play this year (MeKick and AZ).
I first played HoMM3 19 years ago. But there is something that keeps me coming back every few years. And I am from Central/Eastern Europe and somehow HoMM3 is really strong here.

@Fippy how do you like your Heroes?

 

[krikav]

@shakabrade

Spoiler :

Nice play! I do think that it's quite possible to squeeze a win out of that position.

Nappy napped that gold spot ~T42 in my game, grrr!
Looking at my end position T134 (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/prepare-to-cringe-bad-maps-deity.647427/page-2#post-15489417)
Do you think it's possible to pull of some sort of stunt to keep hope up, or is that just GG?

 

[shakabrade]

@shakabrade

Spoiler :

Nice play! I do think that it's quite possible to squeeze a win out of that position.

Nappy napped that gold spot ~T42 in my game, grrr!
Looking at my end position T134 (https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/prepare-to-cringe-bad-maps-deity.647427/page-2#post-15489417)
Do you think it's possible to pull of some sort of stunt to keep hope up, or is that just GG?

So the answer is... no.

Spoiler :

Chance of anything working is really really low. I first thought that you can go espionage and steal stuff on path to cannons (if you get cannons 1250AD on this map, you are still in the game, maybe), but your economy is in ruin. You could go for culture but only if Cyrus does not attack you. He is actually not pleased (Nappy hates you therefore Cyrus is Cautious to you). So, culture (Medina, Tours, Chartres).
You really did not have luck with T42 Nappy stealing gold and later with Nappy not attacking SB and then Nappy capitulating to Cyrus. That capitulation is the main issue.

 

[krikav]

If only I could have gotten Cyrus of Nappys back for aestethics... That would have done the trick.
Nice to know that my assessment that the situation is hopeless is shared.
Had loads of fun chopping out all those catapults and putting them to use though, so still GG!

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hi guys, a civ game after playing HOMM3 for some time.
This is actually my second take on this map.

Spoiler :

First was supposed to be an Axe rush but then I was bored by the fact that I did not play seriously (plus long distance to the target, probably that) and went back to try again with more normal game and roads in place for an army.

So the opening was the same in both games. First we lose 2 turns scouting for fish and then we farm that flood plain and go for BW before AH. Why BW, because BW allows us to chop them trees and in bad food start, it is best to find another city. In the meantime, warriors for aggressive fogbusting were produced. Stepping on hills, piggybacking behind AI units and dancing away from barbs and some luck when you have some chance to land next to barb allowed AI to deal with most of the barbs. I lost one warrior in first attempt and none in the 2nd.

Spoiler :

All that fogbusting was there to get this city spot (picture below). It was placed like this to take all the gold and that we can share one gold with helper city plus I already had Axe plus Cats warfare in mind. Those golds would be my economy for both okayish attack date and to keep up the conquest. Hence, it was the 2nd city. Fish + cow was a 3rd (GPP farm), stone + gold was fourth and (shared) cow plus riverside was 5th city. Actually 3 decent cities.

Spoiler :

Peaceweights pretty much define the future relations between SB and Nappy plus land target. Yeah, and Nappy did declare on SB relatively early. I was sort of happy because of that. It'd be better if Nappy declared when I had an army (he suicides his SoD onto SB and then I step in) but this was ok, slowing their tech pace is a win for me. My micro through the game was bad, and needed to reload to start a granary 3 times in a row (cause I have 4T autosave and then forget what I was doing when replaying turns). I wouldn't bother in the normal game, but some penny pinching can pay well on this kind of a map.

I did not really document this process that well, but it is important that SB founded a religion and spread to me and we managed to become friends later on.

Regarding research, I went for construction. Did not have GPP early enough for Maths bulb, and also needed quite a lot of units to fight Nappy. Trades were rare (traded for Maths with Aesthetics) and got maybe Sailing and IW.

While he was at war with SB, Nappy demanded Alphabet for a tribute. I refused. He declared. I was surprised. But I also already had piled half of my SoD by his border and his attack with one chariot and one sword was met by an Axe and a Spear. On the hill. I guess that's it. Actually great he attacked me as that saves me from -1 diplo with Cyrus. And then I assembled the Army and finally took some pictures.

Spoiler :

Lost maybe 7-9 catapults and an Axe. Using GG for experience on cats provided me with 4 accuracy cats and 2 CR2. That is like 8 cats for bombarding only. Better move than super medic, I'd say. My stack was also an overkill and I managed to split it in time to take all cities SB has worn down. I remember how I started my deity "career" by piggybacking an AIs. Still works.


State of the empire.

Spoiler :

I have 1GS for a bulb and one GP for GAge after cities come out of revolt. Still not sure whether to go Optics or just into Education and Oxford. AIs are slow globally, judging from the wonder dates. Although I am relatively backwards, I think this is a game won with 2 trading partners (friendly SB and always eager Cyrus) and nice land. I'll probably pursue Fighters plus Infantry/Marines or maybe Tanks plus Bombers. Probably 1700AD win and maybe I can avoid Cyrus for the whole game. Assessing the victory date is important because AI's can win culture in late 1700s and space in early 1800s and our Cyrus is definitely a contender.

Very nice Shakabrade, way better than my attempt.

Spoiler :

...
lost my 2nd Warrior and Settler at those odds?!! X_X
GAME OVER

If I was smarter, I would have made a 3rd Warrior and another road for a 2-turn slower 2nd city.
Wouldn't normally have been so aggressive, but it was advertised as a terror map.

 

[shakabrade]

Very nice Shakabrade, way better than my attempt.

Spoiler :

...
lost my 2nd Warrior and Settler at those odds?!! X_X
GAME OVER

If I was smarter, I would have made a 3rd Warrior and another road for a 2-turn slower 2nd city.

Ouch. Such a bad luck.
Just try again. I mean, you still haven't seen much and you can pretend and waste an opening turns.
BTW, intriguing city spot.

 

[Fippy]

I tried your save Krikav, and saw a glimmer of light with no AIs having Compass yet (city capture gold does help).
Big hope was that Cyrus would take his time until Marseille and Orleans can be taken, then peace for Compass but..

Spoiler :

too early, those Maces are too strong with what we have. Eventually they could be taken down with Cats, but that leaves no army for city captures.
Bit of a shame that he was so fast, i think Orleans and M would be enuf to recover with selling compass around.

 

[krikav]

@Fippy

Spoiler :

That was a nice plan, as declaring on Cyrus maybe would cause him to talk earlier, and compass would certainly have been enough to make peace. But thats one nasty stack comming way too early.
Perhaps it was close to Paris when Napoleon capitulated?

 

[Fish Man]

I believe we can all agree this map could belong here as well. The start is fine but after looking around for 5 turns you'll no doubt be cringing at what's around...

Spoiler :

Jungle. Everything's jungle . Also you're blocked in by 2 AIs.

 

[Fippy]

^ Nope, only maps here where we estimate ~50% or higher chance to lose
I see Krikav with Jumbos among other things in the Pericles map, does not qualify.

 

[Fish Man]

^ Nope, only maps here where we estimate ~50% or higher chance to lose
I see Krikav with Jumbos among other things in the Pericles map, does not qualify.

Really? 50% or higher chance to lose, huh?

Tell me, friend. What good are jumbos...when an AI gets 100BC engineering?

(Also I'm sure @Lain agrees, low sea level is THE WORST).

 

[Fippy]

Well it's what i created this thread for, yes..
bad maps, as in ouchy can we win this? Not uh okay, maybe this could be difficult.
Pericles might be among the top 5 leaders, with Ivory, it's just not bad enuf for what i intend to do here.
You can always create your own collection.

 

[Fish Man]

Ah, by the statement I meant that I considered that map a 50% or higher chance to lose. Maybe I'm wrong, but so far it's been surprisingly tough going despite all the seeming advantages.

 

[AcaMetis]

^ Nope, only maps here where we estimate ~50% or higher chance to lose
I see Krikav with Jumbos among other things in the Pericles map, does not qualify.

Does this map count ?