Prepare to cringe - bad maps (deity)

[BornInCantaloup]

@Fippy how do you like your Heroes?

Logistics, Offense, Armorer, Earth are the best skills for your main. Wisdom, Air, Tactics, Scouting are fine, Archery can be. Necro is good if you build around.
Barbarians are the best class. Overlords & Beastmasters are fine, too ; Demoniacs have good skills but too much spellpower and no great specialty (no Crag Hack, no Gunnar). Knights and Rangers are the worst (because skills). Beastmasters/Armorer are better in a Utopia setting (you get hit) ; Barbs/Offense are better to clear the map (you don't get hit).

Scouting/utility heroes can have a lot more variety. Logistics, scouting, scholar or strong spell power (Luna...) are interesting. Also mines on heels are good.

 

[Fippy]

H3

Spoiler :

Yup might heroes for normal games with the mentioned skills.
I remember Log, Offense and Armorer specialists were banned in many online games (by agreement from all players).
Against AIs resurrection often means they cannot defeat you anymore (earth is ofc op), cos you can blind and rez all your units.

Against other players, mass haste was often devastating.
An artifact that only allows L1 and L2 spells was game changing (cloak of something?).
But there also are maps where hit and run with magic heroes can be superior.

I remember some sp maps that are very challenging, like Unleashing the Bloodthirsty

Will check the map soon, Acametis

 

[Tobiyogi]

I think I can recall that I played on untill about T100-T150 or so and throwed in the towel....

Do you remember what your "cringe" moment was? I don't find that map particularly hard, but there are some things I should have done in a different order, and I will have to play it once again because on deity, mistakes are not forgiven

Spoiler :

I settled on the PH and my 2. city directly on the copper to block off land & be secure from barbs. But Hamburg cannot really grow (and you spend too much turns on roading) so I think 2. city should be where Munich is now, between Gold, wheat and stone. I was scared of barbs, because Sury built TGW and I didn't see yet that Isabella covers the western area.

It was good to neglect the coast for a while and to settle inland, but techpath was wrong. AGRI must come earlier, and WRI before pottery, because with Frederick, library and specialists is much more worth than Granary and cottages.

 

[krikav]

@Tobiyogi

Spoiler :

Right at the start, upon realizing that you are stuck near the north pole with tundra in the west, desert in the south and a creative AI in the south west.
I _think_ I managed to get 5-6 cities and held tight for cuirs, but don't remember exacly.

Looked at your screenshots now. I remember that I didn't get that southern copper. You settled like Fippy did, I did not (think i settled on the fur to the west.)

If you touch borders with sury chance of early dow goes up by alot, like.. 10 times more likely.
So not sure that is wise, even if you grab the copper.

 

[Tobiyogi]

@Tobiyogi

Spoiler :

Right at the start, upon realizing that you are stuck near the north pole with tundra in the west, desert in the south and a creative AI in the south west.
I _think_ I managed to get 5-6 cities and held tight for cuirs, but don't remember exacly.

Spoiler :

More than 6 cities peacefully doesn't seem possible. Haven't seen horses so maybe cannon attack later. Land is not really bad but the positioning of neighbors almost forces me to settle the weaker spots first (and to spend more turns on connecting the cities)

 

[Tobiyogi]

A cringe map contribution
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-fredrich.645258/, https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-game-of-kublai.645867/)

I was not able to win that map...

Spoiler :

Due to the lack of resources exept iron, I was going for Steel. The technology came right in time (after having libbed PP and bulbed several techs), but my neighbours were already quite big and militarily well equipped. Sury had peace-vassaled to Isabella who had a giant empire, the only choice was to destroy Ramsess and that was hard enough. I think in retrospective, this map cries for a cultural victory, as we have stone, marble is nearby and we are PHI. But I have already won cultural games on deity and I wanted to make it different this time. I think I rather stay on IMM, this is the level where I feel really comfortable.

 

[Tobiyogi]

A cringe map contribution
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/deity-fredrich.645258/, https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-game-of-kublai.645867/)

I was not able to win that map...

Spoiler :

Due to the lack of resources exept iron, I was going for Steel. The technology came right in time (after having libbed PP and bulbed several techs), but my neighbours were already quite big and militarily well equipped. Sury had peace-vassaled to Isabella who had a giant empire, the only choice was to destroy Ramsess and that was hard enough. I think in retrospective, this map cries for a cultural victory, as we have stone, marble is nearby and we are PHI. But I have already won cultural games on deity and I wanted to make it different this time. I think I rather stay on IMM, this is the level where I feel really comfortable.

 

[Olafeson]

always this buffy mod .....

Can t play the maps because i dont have the mod installed correctly. What is so special about this mod that is not included in Bug&Bull?
Also don t really want to change my setup with which i am playing for years now and with which i am quite satisfied.

 

[Olafeson]

By the way, did i mention already how much i love the avatar and username change of Undefeatable? Since the immortal challenge from fippy with saladin with this damn fish to the east. The new avatar picture is always putting a smile on my face.

 

[Fippy]

It's not that special, but if i use BAT others will have problems playing?
They are the 2 most comfy mods for sure. Buffy is used in gotm & HoF games, pretty much standard these days (Lain uses Buffy too now i think).

 

[AcaMetis]

BUFFY does have a few features that BUG+BULL doesn't have, though (IIRC) none that I've seen Lain use are unique to it. BUG (or BULL, one or the other) includes stuff like automatic pre-chopping, revealing First Impression diplo modifiers and worker turns invested in tile improvements.

@Fippy, did you check out that Charly map? I assumed that it's suitably cringe-y for this topic.

 

[Fippy]

Yup i did, sowy!
Charly map totally qualifies, really funny setup ~~

 

[Izuul]

BUFFY doesn't get in the way of my normal mods. It only loads when i try to access a save file created using BUFFY. Is there really a reason not to install it?

 

[krikav]

@Tobiyogi

Spoiler :

I did make another try with that map, HA upgrade to cuirs and took 4 cities from isabella before peace treaty (she was comming with a enormeous army) that calmed her down somewhat. After that I went on to Sury, took all his cities, then most of ramesses cities before he vassaled to Isabella. Also took all of Victorias/Wangs cities (save for a ofshore city of Wang).

Think I quitted the game after that, or possibly I just went for a quick diplo. Can't find any save or screenshot in the mess on my computer.

But yeah, having Isabella run out of control is really an issue on that map.

*Edit* Did post some of the progress here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-to-do-with-great-people.647645/#post-15492644 */Edit*

 

[AcaMetis]

Yup i did, sowy!
Charly map totally qualifies, really funny setup ~~

Fantastic. Here's to hoping someone shows off how the map could be beaten, because even after all the stunts I've seen Lain pull I'm not sure how you'd pull off a victory on that cringe-fest of a map .

 

[Olafeson]

Is there really a reason not to install it?

Well i guess in my case just lazyness and unjustified bias.

My good old Bug & Bull does everything i want since years. And for example whenever Lain in his YT vids explained that this feature of the Buffy mod is nice, i just wonder why his Bug & Bull doesn t stop prechops or shows unfinished tile improvements and other features. Because my version does that already, so i never had a reason to install buffy besides for forum maps.

I guess i will maybe one day change my mind if a lot of forum games keep on being posted for buffy mod exclusive. Until then i will stay a stubborn old donkey i guess.

 

[krikav]

Fantastic. Here's to hoping someone shows off how the map could be beaten, because even after all the stunts I've seen Lain pull I'm not sure how you'd pull off a victory on that cringe-fest of a map .

Love the map, almost certain I will lose horribly though.

 

[AcaMetis]

Love the map, almost certain I will lose horribly though.

I'm sure most would, me most certainly included. That's why I'm so interested in seeing a proper playthrough/analyses of it, though - it's a puzzle that I can't find an answer to .

...And to soak in the cringe and disbelief that Civ IV's RNG could create a map like this, I'll admit .

 

[krikav]

@AcaMetis

Spoiler :

Did a first try now, trying to develop economy. Ofcourse a gigantic gamble as our "friendly" neighbour came over asking for abit more than a cup of sugar early T50.
I rushed writing to get OB as I know he loves to send missionaries, but didn't have any time getting to friendly even tough the missionaries came en queue just 2 turns after writing.

Will give it another go not ignoring the unignorable danger. But I can't really see much hope for anyone here...

 

[AcaMetis]

@krikav

Spoiler :

"Hope" is indeed a foreign concept on this map, yet surely there must be a way. I've yet to encounter a map that is just 100% unwinnable. Even cooked maps like that Prepare to DIE! Wang Kong map that Lain played was ultimately winnable. This map...I just can't see it. I know the effectiveness of military breakouts, using a vassal to win the game for you with their Deity AI unit upgrade/maintenance discounts, giving a particular AI Mass Media and a Great Engineer to "rig" the UN secretary elections, all sorts of neat tricks.

I still cannot see how you could win this map.