[Preview] Throne and Altar: A Medieval Mod

[ArbitraryGuy]

@Good Sauce & Gunner
Good ideas Gunner and Good Sauce. One modification, though... rather than making another religion (AI is too stupid to understand), how about putting a wonder in Jerusalem that functions as a normal-game's "shrine"? Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Good Sauce]

@Good Sauce & Gunner
Good ideas Gunner and Good Sauce. One modification, though... rather than making another religion (AI is too stupid to understand), how about putting a wonder in Jerusalem that functions as a normal-game's "shrine"? Thanks for the suggestions.

Ya, that's much simpler, should have thought of it.
Also, are you going to have more 'restricted' techs like Council of Nicea in EE3? I think adding some in for the Arabic and Chiristian civs would help highlight cultural differences.

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

Ya, that's much simpler, should have thought of it.
Also, are you going to have more 'restricted' techs like Council of Nicea in EE3? I think adding some in for the Arabic and Chiristian civs would help highlight cultural differences.

Yeah. For instance, Arabic Civs won't be able to research Crusading Orders (hence, not be able to build Knights Templar or Knights Hospitallier wonders). However, Arabic Civs will be able to build the wonder Order of Assassins (which will require an Arabic tech which the christians won't be able get). Not sure what Order of Assassins will do yet, though...

 

[Gunner]

Is it possible within the game engine to have a religion have multiple shrine-like buildings? That would be best so we wouldn't need to have two religions and you could have Rome have a bonus too.

 

[Crayton]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread. I have actually been working on a 'Medieval German' mod, although it stretches from 800-1100 so it actually falls into a separate time-frame as yours . I doubt I'll complete it, but working on it is fun.

One suggestion I have is the Improvent/Small Wonder of an Archbishopric. It works like a shrine and gives civs without the Holy City the desire to convert those barbarians so that they may profit. Maybe, Jerusalem could be the Christian Holy City and there could exist an Archbishopric of Rome (Pope).

I myself, enjoyed the notion of an event driven Papacy with the 'Kingdom of Italy' presently occupying Rome. I'm working on modifying the UN for the Holy Roman Empire but you are already including the HRE as a whole.

Another suggestion, although it may be too late, is to incorporate 'Crusader' units as opposites of 'Missionary' units. After conquering a city just send a Crusader to wipe out the previous religion. Although, your model seems to incorporate this with less micro-managing.

Gee, I was so excited to see this mod, sadly I'm only a novice when it comes to the history of this time-period. That said, your mod should come in handy and maybe give me the unction to complete my own.

EDIT: And on the Catholic/Orthodox thing it is a good idea to keep them separate because both spiritual leaders excommunicated the other and Constantinople was actually sacked by Crusaders because it was a great prize compared to the war-riddled 'Holy Land'.

 

[seZereth]

hi, i am modding formations right now and wanted to say, if anyone needs Units with 10 men and an officer, let me know, will have finished it soon i think with 11 vs 11 it looks like a decent battle which would fit medieval times.

 

[Tahuti]

Why is Paganism a religion? You could better seperate Asatru (Viking) and Baltic Paganism.

And only Kingdom of Sweden, no Vikings?

 

[Silica_Pathways]

You could better name it Asatru.

There was no Asatru in Baltics, it's Scandinavian religion, so regional religion wouldn't fit.

 

[Grohan]

And only Kingdom of Sweden, no Vikings?

"The scenario/mod will cover the time period from about 1099-1400 AD."
Viking age ended in 11th century...

 

[Tahuti]

There was no Asatru in Baltics, it's Scandinavian religion, so regional religion wouldn't fit.

D'oh, I said Asatru was Viking, but it is the most dominant pagan religion in Europe, though not in the Balkans.

Indeed the Viking age ended in 11th century, but I think the mod scope should start much earlier

 

[Silica_Pathways]

D'oh, I said Asatru was Viking, but it is the most dominant pagan religion in Europe, though not in the Balkans.

Indeed the Viking age ended in 11th century, but I think the mod scope should start much earlier

Hmm, i think u edited your post after i posted, but nevermind

 

[Tunch Khan]

ArbitraryGuy;

Somewhere in this forum I have read about your final list, which did not include the Turks (none of them: Greater Seljuks, Seljuks of Rum, Atabegdom of Aleppo, Atabegdom of Damascus) who were all present in the Near East, Bagdad and all of Anatolia (the conquest of Anatolia was completed except for Trabzon by 1099). Nicaea was the capital of Seljuks of Rum.

I like the whole idea about this mod, but the main point of the Crusaders was to "help" Orthodox Byzantium against Turks to regain her lost territories, which was partially successfull (except that the Crusaders went on to establish their own Catholic Kingdom of Jerusalem and other Crusader States instead of helping Byzantium and went one step further to almost annihilate it with the capture and forced convertion of Orthodox Greeks to Catholicism in Constantinople, 1204).

The Shiite Fatimids are also missing, which is a significant gap in North Africa. The reason Crusaders were successfull, was the existence of hostilities between many small muslim states. Fatimids of Egypt would later be conquered by Ayyubids for a brief period and then fall to Mameluk Turks, who secured the existance of Islam against pagan Mongol invasion.

The term you are using "Saracens" is an old term used by the Crusaders of the time to represent all muslims. However; the muslims of the time period were using the term "Franks" to represent all Catholics as well. It would be equally funny to have one large chunk of Frankish Kingdom in all of Europe just like it is to have one large chunk of Saracens.

This is your mod afterall and you should be free to include and exlude whichever nation you prefer. Mines are only suggestions to reflect one side of the history more accurate. I loved your Europa Europa Mod, and I am sure you can manage to combine historical accuracy with balanced gameplay.

Keep up the good work.

 

[anjf]

Looks very good

 

[ArbitraryGuy]

ArbitraryGuy;

Somewhere in this forum I have read about your final list, which did not include the Turks...

Thanks for the comments. The "final" list is wrong. I did remove Sweden and replaced it with the Turks... yesterday, actually. Keep in mind, what I said a few weeks (or even days) ago isn't necessarily the final anything (even if I say it's final)... the mod slowly develops as my ideas evolve and my mind changes.

There can only be 18 civs and they have to be constant through time, so some civs represent many civs, fractionalized empirers, etc. Muslim states & Eurpean Empires will have governments to symbolize this fractionalization. I was origionally using the term "Ayyubids," but then I replaced it with "Saracens" because I was putting non-barbarians in Asia Minor.

However, now that I've added "The Turks", perhaps I should simply revert Saracens to "The Ayyubids"?

Also, for playabilty (because Civ 4 is so runs soooo great on eveyone's computer, I have kept the number of cities to a minimum)... hence very little in North Africa.

Thanks for your comments

 

[Tunch Khan]

Fatimids would be a better choice for two reasons; both Ayyubids and Abbasids were actually vassals of the Seljuk Turks; both of them were sharing the same branch of Islamic faith, Sunni, while Fatimid Caliphate was Shiite and they represented everything that was 100% opposite to the Sunni legacy.

The ideal would of course be to include them all, but since you have a certain hardcore limit, then it is my belief that Fatimids are a better choice both geographically and culturally.

EDIT: since the game is covering 1099-1400 period, a more generic term would be Arabs or Saracens, but this is a little tricky.

- Abbasids were Arabs, but they were completely annihilated by 1250. Capital city Bagdad.

- Fatimids were also Arabs, but of Shiite faith, and were annihilated by 1171. Capital city Cairo.

- Ayyubids were Kurdish/Turkish and survived only between 1171 and 1250. Capital city Cairo.

- Mameluks were Turkish and ruled Egypt between 1250 and 1517. Capital city Cairo.

- Zengid Dynasty was a Seljuk Turkish state that ruled over Near East between 1127 and 1250. Capital city Mosul and Damascus.

Since you are including Turks, it would be difficult to pick a second name among the ones listed above. Fatimids are a good choice for 1099, but they only last less than 100 years in your scenario. But then, this is just a game, so you come up with whichever sounds best to you.

 

[Robo Magic Man]

The scenario looks amazing But I do have one suggestion. I saw that all of southern Italy is empty, leaving the papal states room to expand (which is inaccurate).

So, why not add a Kingdom of Sicily? I could even make the civ for you if you're interested.

Also, I have a swiss merc skin already made if you don't have one already.

 

[wolfman1234]

This is great man! A historical medieval mod! and with events! The more the better, events return to civ.

 

[Robo Magic Man]

Also, I just noticed that you wanted to remove the Papal States, which I would agree with, considering the Papal States did very little as a nation, while the Pope controlled many world events. However, this leaves Italy completely empty. IMO, there at least needs to be a minor civ there. So, if you do remove the Papal States, I would suggest adding Tuscany or some other kingdom/duchy to that area.

 

[Gunner]

I believe there are barbarian cities in South Italy. Barbarian cities don't show up on the mini-map so there are some other areas that look empty too that really have something. Also, the reason the Papal States would be removed is to free up one of the 18 slots for another civ. So adding Tuscany or something would defeat the point of removing the Papal States.

 

[Half Fast]

Since you'll be having three different knights I suggest that someone make three separate units for them. Kight I could have chain mail, knight II could have chain mail with some plate armour, and knight III could be a fully plated gothic or maxmillian suit. Hopefully SDK is comes out real soon.