Priests

[DrPepper836]

Since apparently now, priests can only perform 1 or 2 specific spells, are they worth building and researching?

 

[smusebaer]

sure... they can found tempels, are first aid units, can heal deseases, and most have great combat spells. And FOL Priest are needed for more trees, and Rok has a nice buff for all troops.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

They don't have the versatility, but what they have is often useful. Cure disease is vital if you use mutation or have much chaos mana, or of course if you fight Ashen veil. Heal is great in keeping an advance going, most of the religion specific spells are good too, at least those I've seen recently.
Also, they are okay fighters (if you don't wait too long to use them) and can get command promotions to convert defeated enemies.
It can be a pain to level one all the way up to level 6 for the high priests. If you're good, though, you can use the altar, and if your Ashen veil you can level faster with unholy taint.
Plus, priests can upgrade to Eidolons or Paladins, and when they do so they retain their casting abilities. (And they don't need to be leveled like they do for high priests in this case). But if you upgrade from a champion to a Eidolon or Paladin, you can do so with melee specific promotions, like city raider, so that is a good option as well.

 

[Fafnir13]

Ring of flames always makes my day. Typhoon is certainly nice too, although a tad situational. Haven't used the others much, tend not to go for those religions.
And the command promotion is really, really nice. I captured knight in one of games recently. Had to really work at it, wounding it just enough with skeletons and weaker units until my priest had a good percentage to take it out. Would have been easier if I'd just let myself save/load, but I'm trying to break that habit.

 

[Sarisin]

I think to discover the answer to this you need only play as Cassiel and see what it is like to not have Priest units. I think there have been some changes (haven't played the Grigori in a while), but it used to take quite some time to get a unit with Medic for them. I really missed that when I took a stack out to cause trouble...especially if I had HN units like the Stooges.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, right now the Grigori basically have the best priests of all. True, they aren't technically priests, and they only randomly get a religion and the associated spells, but Grigori Medics can cast any spell that a High Priests can. (They still won't get free promotions like water walking or spirit guide though.)

 

[DuckAndCower]

I just played a game as the Bannor with Order. I loved how the priest's spell (Unyielding Order, I believe) allows you to get conquered cities up and running quickly. Gets rid of unrest and unhappiness, so you can start building without worrying about the unruly populace starving itself. Blessing and healing were also great for maintaining momentum.

 

[Sarisin]

Well, right now the Grigori basically have the best priests of all. True, they aren't technically priests, and they only randomly get a religion and the associated spells, but Grigori Medics can cast any spell that a High Priests can. (They still won't get free promotions like water walking or spirit guide though.)

Yes, but having to wait until you research Medicine is just too long for them to arrive on the scene. I would like to see them sooner (maybe with Sanitation?) as you can normally get a Medic unit for other civs much earlier. Even the Thanes, Disciples, Acolytes, etc. give you Medic I and the priests with Medic II are not that far down the road when you can have a religion. One really good change, I think, was to give the Grigori Medics Cure Disease, but again, it is a long time to wait if you are at war with a civ with a load of Diseased Corpses.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Yes, but having to wait until you research Medicine is just too long for them to arrive on the scene. I would like to see them sooner (maybe with Sanitation?) as you can normally get a Medic unit for other civs much earlier. Even the Thanes, Disciples, Acolytes, etc. give you Medic I and the priests with Medic II are not that far down the road when you can have a religion. One really good change, I think, was to give the Grigori Medics Cure Disease, but again, it is a long time to wait if you are at war with a civ with a load of Diseased Corpses.

Well, the Grigori balance out the massive spammin of religion spread which always happens. It ain't bad it happens and I like it. But someone has to be agnostic and the Grigori are. As a result, they have to pay a slight price. Plus, consider how overpowered they'd be (mainly with a Human player, not the AI tho) if they had a 'priest' unit earlier. You'd have Grigori Heroes and Medics all over the damn place; beatin you up and healin way too fast. (Ten Heroes always healin in 1 or 2 turns is a bit much til after most civs have iron at least.) Forcin the Medics to Medicine makes it so everyone else can keep up. It's a balance issue, man.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It doesn't really make logical sense to have Medics before Medicine.


From the history, it seems quite appropriate for the Grigori to be plagued by more disease than other civs until they discover scientific medicine.


There isn't much "balanced" about Grigori Medics though, at least not since the magic lines were merged. They are the equivalents of High Prists with a lowe tech requirement, no level requirement, no religion requirement, no resource requirement, no national limit, and no abandoning you. They mean unlimited Balors, Treants, Krakens, Earthquakes, and Unyielding Order.


I still really think that Letting them have Divine or channeling makes no sense. The Cure Disease and Heal spells should be moved to Medic II and III, imho.

I also prefer to make Divine spells all require the proper state religion, but let you build the priests when not of that religion. Lore-wise, we know that Priests of Lugus (and Sirona) are sanctioned in the Bannor Empire but are required to serve in their Crusades (mostly as Medics, I'd guess). I'd probably add alignment restrictions at least for Ritualists and Confessors though.

 

[Sarisin]

Well, the Grigori balance out the massive spammin of religion spread which always happens. It ain't bad it happens and I like it. But someone has to be agnostic and the Grigori are. As a result, they have to pay a slight price. Plus, consider how overpowered they'd be (mainly with a Human player, not the AI tho) if they had a 'priest' unit earlier. You'd have Grigori Heroes and Medics all over the damn place; beatin you up and healin way too fast. (Ten Heroes always healin in 1 or 2 turns is a bit much til after most civs have iron at least.) Forcin the Medics to Medicine makes it so everyone else can keep up. It's a balance issue, man.

I see your point on the balance issue, but I think you are exaggerating it a bit much. I don't recall ever having 10 Grigori heroes early in a game - when other civs have access to Medic units from religions. I think you have to distinguish between the religion-based units and their benefits, which the agnostic Grigori clearly should not have, and the medic units, which the Grigori have, but IMO receive a little too late in the game.

Also, the Cure Disease spell which Priests have comes early for all civs except for the Grigori who have to wait for one of their Grigori Medic units to come along. I dunno, maybe it is just that I always seem to go to war with the damn AV civs and their Diseased Corpses resulting in me fielding a diseased army for a long time as the Grigori.

Maybe they need a Sanitary Engineer with Medic skills?

 

[Darksaber1]

Hmm, a Medic Sanitation Engineer? (Also know as a garbage man with first-aid).

 

[Caradoc]

Does the Divine promotion do anything now? And why do Priests get Channeling 2?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Divine and Channeling II Promotions are the prerequisites for all the Priest spells, including the non-religion-specific Cure Disease. (High Priest Spells, including Heal, require Divine and Channeling III)


(In my version I removed Channeling II and III from priests and high priests, and instead made a seperate Divine I and II promotion. I also switched Cure Disease and Heal to Medic II and III.)