I did not verify it 100%, because I've forgotten to check the save game, but I'd say there is a 99.5% chance that I'm just being an idiot.
Probably Improved Gameplay Mod
- Thread starter PieceOfMind
- Start date
I did not verify it 100%, because I've forgotten to check the save game, but I'd say there is a 99.5% chance that I'm just being an idiot.
Figured I'd mention my LAN experiences yesterday.
- Lumber mills, I think I'm going to have to eat my own words here. Introducing Lumber mills at machinery was actually a positive change which seemed to provide increased variability (i.e. more options) early in the game. I actually created four of them in my capital in our first game, because I wanted the additional health benefits that the forests provided due to lack of health resources and lots of flood plains. Was it worth it? I’m not sure, but I used them nonetheless.
- Sentry Scouts, this change really increased the value of the Scout and overall I don’t think it’s a bad change. In fact I kind of like it, it makes scouts a viable unit to build to use as Sentry units instead of early Warriors or Archers. I’d actually like to see this change remain intact. It still won’t be used as a replacement for Warriors because Scouts cannot be used as military happy cap police.
The only problem now is that the Explorer does not provide much extra in terms of usefulness. He’s much too expensive and really although he is a better defender that’s not really the Explorer’s primary function. He’s a scout. Reduce his hammer cost to 30
? Either that or bump his movement points to 3
and keep increase cost to 50.Alternative change is of course to remove Sentry from Scouts and revert them back to normal and then give Explorers free sentry to give an incentive to upgrade (and tech Compass).
Side question, why do you use version 0.911 instead of 0.92? 0.92 sounds more intuitive to me, is that a developer thing? Hehe.
It's not visible to most of you guys, but I'm usually using a 3rd digit after the point in my incremental versions. Here I'm inclined to increment to 0.911 because it is a very minor update. But when I get round to it it'll probably be v0.92 by then anyway.
In the end it's pretty arbitrary. Loosely the speed at which it approaches 1.000 is how close it's getting to the proper release, hopefully with more documentation and all.
On lumbermills, I've liked the change so far as well. Still I want to try more test games but I always did think it silly that when you get to railroad you go and build rails on all your mines and lumbermills first. I guess there's a realism argument there but IMO the railroad bonus comes far too late, on top of RP coming too late to make LMs used on more than a trivial scale.
Sentry scouts: Hmm. I haven't had a chance to look at them much. I am hesitant to change the explorer to 3 moves because it means he will move faster than any mounted unit and even modern mech infantry. 2 moves + ignores terrain cost is probably enough as far as movement goes for the explorer.
Remember that regardless of the explorer's intended function, I don't want to make explorers cheap strong terrain-dependent defenders. Reducing them to 30 will make them far better than archers for defending hills or forests, and they can also double as medics with 2 promos getting W3 or C1medic.
Unless they are nerfed, I don't believe their cost should go below the default 40. Giving them a bonus like Sentry or something and keeping their cost at 40 or near 40 should be acceptable IMO.
What about allowing scouts after explorers? i.e. not obsoleting them with explorers?
I still need to think more about this, but have run out of time for today. Will continue tomorrow.
In the end it's pretty arbitrary. Loosely the speed at which it approaches 1.000 is how close it's getting to the proper release, hopefully with more documentation and all.
On lumbermills, I've liked the change so far as well. Still I want to try more test games but I always did think it silly that when you get to railroad you go and build rails on all your mines and lumbermills first. I guess there's a realism argument there but IMO the railroad bonus comes far too late, on top of RP coming too late to make LMs used on more than a trivial scale.
Sentry scouts: Hmm. I haven't had a chance to look at them much. I am hesitant to change the explorer to 3 moves because it means he will move faster than any mounted unit and even modern mech infantry. 2 moves + ignores terrain cost is probably enough as far as movement goes for the explorer.
Remember that regardless of the explorer's intended function, I don't want to make explorers cheap strong terrain-dependent defenders. Reducing them to 30
will make them far better than archers for defending hills or forests, and they can also double as medics with 2 promos getting W3 or C1medic.Unless they are nerfed, I don't believe their cost should go below the default 40
. Giving them a bonus like Sentry or something and keeping their cost at 40 or near 40 should be acceptable IMO.What about allowing scouts after explorers? i.e. not obsoleting them with explorers?
I still need to think more about this, but have run out of time for today. Will continue tomorrow.
Sentry scouts: Hmm. I haven't had a chance to look at them much. I am hesitant to change the explorer to 3 moves because it means he will move faster than any mounted unit and even modern mech infantry. 2 moves + ignores terrain cost is probably enough as far as movement goes for the explorer.
Remember that regardless of the explorer's intended function, I don't want to make explorers cheap strong terrain-dependent defenders. Reducing them to 30
Unless they are nerfed, I don't believe their cost should go below the default 40
What about allowing scouts after explorers? i.e. not obsoleting them with explorers?
I still need to think more about this, but have run out of time for today. Will continue tomorrow.
If both Scouts and Explorers have Sentry to start with then the problem arises: Why do I want Explorers instead of Scouts? Im not looking to fight or defend with Explorers and I can get 2+ Scouts (15:hammers) for the price of 1 Explorer. Scouts are great with Sentry, even more so in multiplayer as they are so cheap that you can get them in one or two turns with a mediocre production city.
So if were going to give both Explorers and Scouts Sentry we need to give Explorers something else that makes investing 40
instead of 15 into a recon unit worthwhile. Ignoring terrain cost and keeping them at 40 is probably a good idea. But even that is sort of like meh
I can still get two Scouts for the cost of one Explorer, kind of not worth it.How about removing the starting promotions (Wood/Hills), except Sentry, Explorers get and reducing the cost to 30
and having it ignore terrain movement cost as well? So basically its a 4 
scout that ignores terrain cost and is two times as expensive.Also, I have another request for PIG, can we add a new game speed?
We play at Blazing speed at our LAN but even that starts to slow down quite a bit after the first 150 turns. Basically I'd want a speed that's not neccesssarily faster the first 80-100 turns but one that scales a bit differently, especially after the fist 100-150 turns. Can this be changed using .XML? I'll check it out once I get home.
We play at Blazing speed at our LAN but even that starts to slow down quite a bit after the first 150 turns. Basically I'd want a speed that's not neccesssarily faster the first 80-100 turns but one that scales a bit differently, especially after the fist 100-150 turns. Can this be changed using .XML? I'll check it out once I get home.
I very much like the sentry promotion for scouts. First it makes them different from Warriors as they can actually reveal / map territory. This does give nations starting with a scout a nice boost.
Without it it feels like a warrior with less uses. Cannot attack animals and is so squishy that is dies from the first barbarian it meets (Yes i am so tired on micro managing exploring that i rely on the script - i would love warriors to auto attack animals instead of ignoring the experience).
Without it it feels like a warrior with less uses. Cannot attack animals and is so squishy that is dies from the first barbarian it meets (Yes i am so tired on micro managing exploring that i rely on the script - i would love warriors to auto attack animals instead of ignoring the experience).
Hey PoM,
I managed to create my own Turn Timers, I created three new presets:
Blazing!!!!! (Improved)
Blazing!!!!!!! (Faster)
Blazing!!!!!!!!! (Insane)
I just used the Blazing name and added !! and a (Comment). That way there's no need to translate anything in the _Text file
I used our LAN save games to test my changes and used them to find reasonable settings.
Would you mind introducing these into PIG (See attached).
I managed to create my own Turn Timers, I created three new presets:
Blazing!!!!! (Improved)
Blazing!!!!!!! (Faster)
Blazing!!!!!!!!! (Insane)
I just used the Blazing name and added !! and a (Comment). That way there's no need to translate anything in the _Text file
I used our LAN save games to test my changes and used them to find reasonable settings.
Would you mind introducing these into PIG (See attached).
v0.911 has just been uploaded.
A very minor update:
changes:
Internet troubles at home means I'm having to upload this from a public computer this time round. Sorry I didn't see your latest posts til now AveiMil but the explorer will still be 40 for now.
I'll have a go at adding the new MP turn speed. Please everyone be patient with the next update. It's going to be difficult over the next couple of weeks.
A very minor update:
changes:
-Temples back to 80
-NAVY Seal now gets 1-2 first strikes and Drill I. Previously in PIG it was 2-3 first strikes and no drill. Vanilla BtS was 1-2 first strikes only. Note it still gets its other free promotions (March and Amphibious).
No DLL modifications this time round.
-BULL's feature, "Train Military Units Forever", now defaults to disabled.
-Other features of BULL that have been set to disabled by default: (can be enabled again easily enough)
Field of View
Trade and Commerce in city bar hover
Alert for City going out of revolt next turn
Alert for Can Hurry with Gold
Alternating mode for NJAGC
-Space above Custom Domestic Advisor set to Large by default, instead of Small.
Internet troubles at home means I'm having to upload this from a public computer this time round. Sorry I didn't see your latest posts til now AveiMil but the explorer will still be 40
for now.I'll have a go at adding the new MP turn speed. Please everyone be patient with the next update. It's going to be difficult over the next couple of weeks.
I am not 100% sure at this time, but it appears that there is a small issue with mixing Multiple Production Mod with BULL/BUG. IIRC when using MPM you can avoid turning hammers to gold by queuing up items but BUG reports that X gold will be created at the end of the turn.
Another small issue I have noticed is that the MongooseSDK feature regarding the scaling of lake sizes does not affect things like whether a lighthouse is eligible. For example, it is now possible to have fresh water lakes bigger than 10 tiles in size and on these lakes a lighthouse can be built. That should not be possible unless it was also possible on lakes smaller than 10 tiles.
Another small issue I have noticed is that the MongooseSDK feature regarding the scaling of lake sizes does not affect things like whether a lighthouse is eligible. For example, it is now possible to have fresh water lakes bigger than 10 tiles in size and on these lakes a lighthouse can be built. That should not be possible unless it was also possible on lakes smaller than 10 tiles.
Fimbulvetr
Emperor
Well have fun with that MPM issue, you're going to need to edit python 
Obviously the lake size mod doesn't scale minarea size for buildings at the same time so this was to be expected. Buildings don't require an ocean, they require a water area of a certain size, it's the minareasize value in the buildings xml file.
Obviously the lake size mod doesn't scale minarea size for buildings at the same time so this was to be expected. Buildings don't require an ocean, they require a water area of a certain size, it's the minareasize value in the buildings xml file.
fdgsgds
Mustard Enthusiast
Have you added the inquisitor unit? This would be used to remove heathen religions, save holy cities. I hate how religions will remain permament in a city unless they are razed. It doesn't make sense.
Also, I hate how AI vassals will break away constantly from other AIs. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it is stupid and unrealistic.
One more thing: Sliders can be deviated 5%?
E.g. 75% Science, 5% Espionage, 10% Culture
I'm downloading it. It seems awesome, making necessary changes to gameplay!
Also, I hate how AI vassals will break away constantly from other AIs
. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it is stupid and unrealistic.One more thing: Sliders can be deviated 5%?
E.g. 75% Science, 5% Espionage, 10% Culture
I'm downloading it. It seems awesome, making necessary changes to gameplay!
EmperorFool
Deity
Is this in the Whip hover text or elsewhere? If you can explain a) exactly where in the UI and b) how it should really work, I could probably fix it for you.
Why not have these scale as well? Just need to modify the code for canConstruct() to take this into account.
Afforess
The White Wizard
I would argue that this makes sense. I live in Michigan, and there are lighthouses on the Great Lakes.
Although, I agree smaller lakes don't need lighthouses.
EmperorFool
Deity
Yeah, the issue is that the XML values for buildings are the same value as the minArea for a fresh water lake, right? It doesn't mean they should scale from a reality point of view, but I bet the reasoning is that you shouldn't get the benefit of a lighthouse unless the lake is big enough such that you no longer get 2
per tile.
Does the minArea for seafood to appear now scale with world size as well? How awesome would it be to be on a fresh water lake with seafood and a lighthouse. 7 fish!
per tile.Does the minArea for seafood to appear now scale with world size as well? How awesome would it be to be on a fresh water lake with seafood and a lighthouse. 7
fish! I know what you mean, but it's really a minor issue. I always use MPM but you kind of accept that this text won't be 100% accurate when you have checked this optional mod. It is a small issue of converting the
reported into in my mind.But if you want to put the effort into fixing it, yay
Insignificant and I don't see why it's really a problem anyway. Changing this does not improve gameplay
If you want to make a next big step in improving the game for those who play the AI we should make changes to how Vassling works because it's quite broken and can ruin games. Perhaps invite over great players like TMIT to hear what kind of changes can be made to solve some problems with AI vassalling.
Regarding the lighthouse issue, it was an issue when I tried a Borealis map, standard size IIRC. Some lakes you could built lighthouses on and build ships while others you couldn't build lighthouses or ships.
In other words, it is a consistency issue - nothing to do with realism. Some cities can be settled which have more than 4 or 5 "lake" tiles in them. They get all the benefits of fresh water lake AND all the benefits of sea access like building boats and lighthouses. That said, I don't believe they'll get sea resources but 3 coast tiles is broken imo. I understand it is not an issue on most mapscripts but it is definitely a bother on some mapscripts.
In other words, it is a consistency issue - nothing to do with realism. Some cities can be settled which have more than 4 or 5 "lake" tiles in them. They get all the benefits of fresh water lake AND all the benefits of sea access like building boats and lighthouses. That said, I don't believe they'll get sea resources but 3
coast tiles is broken imo. I understand it is not an issue on most mapscripts but it is definitely a bother on some mapscripts.Doesn't this belong to the BBAI Forum ?
Ah, okey. Well, consistency is good. So perhaps change it so that after x-amount of lake tiles you can build both Lighthouse and ships.
I don't see how 3
Floodplains carry a
penalty and have 1 less 
. Anyway, flood plains are meant to be good. You're not supposed to be able to get 3 coast tiles without sacrificing any tiles to be useless ordinary coast. It's getting a bit hard to explain this very clearly.I should point out too, that by "broken" I don't mean "WTH overpowered" but rather "broken" in the "bugged" sense or "this is not working correctly" or "this doesn't make sense". The simple question, what makes a 10-tile fresh water lake allowed to have a lighthouse (for 3
lake tiles) while a 9-tile lake doesn't? As insignificant as the issue sounds, it's inconsistent and is going to be addressed. Most likely the fix will be as suggested above - whatever other parts of the game check for whether a city is connected to sea should take into account the new 10+ tile lake possibility. Mongoose's change was made in just one part of the SDK IIRC, so it was inconsistently applied and it was probably not his intention.
