PROD - Sirian's Training Day Game

[Sirian]

550BC: No food adjustment?

530BC: Defend the south, yes, good idea.

510BC: You can stop trying to talk to Russia. The AI's are programmed to run a minimum of about four or five turns after any war, NO MATTER WHAT ELSE HAPPENS, before they will talk. This may stretch on if they are winning the war.

470BC: Irrigating some grass!

Leaving research on a big deficit is not good, though. There's nothing that urgent to be gained from Currency. Now if it were rails or factories, or some wonder-tech we need to survive a cascade, that would be a different story, but... what can wait, should wait, and these techs can wait while we use the cash to rush key border projects? Oh? What's that you say? You didn't rush any key border projects? Ouchie. You talked about it, so you are thinking of it, but... what can't wait should not be made to wait. We have cultural border wars we're LOSING and yet we sit around with a fat treasury?

450BC: Trading Republic away? On the Official Turn??? Well, there's one good thing going to come of that: we'll have stronger AI's to contend with for the rest of the game, which will give our training exercise more oomph. Heh. A case of "good things" coming out of poor choices? But... not your intent there, and though good for the exercise, not good for our game or your grade this turn. See the shadow critiques for the full rant about this move.

Your settlement choices are bold. I went with the fresh water sites, but the one you chose at Frankfurt is one I gave a lot of thought to before passing it up. We need to get another settler going up to grab those wheat, though.

430BC: I saw Oxford with the low pop in the savegame, and yet no surplus of workers and no settler in evidence. I knew right away, you got hit with a bout of disease over there. Suxorz that the only one to draw such luck is the Official turn, but that's out of your hands.

410BC: Yes! Keep London growing! Swap settler production to somewhere else. Even Nottingham can handle it better, as it has so much food surplus over there, it can afford to build settlers even at size 7+, better than London can until we get more good tiles into play. Hastings could also do a settler, and settlers can be rushbought fairly cheaply right on the borders at high food cities like Reading or Warwick, while a stronger London pays for it with the extra commerce.

390BC: Sorry, there are no MP's. This is Republic, all happiness must now come from improvements or luxury.

350BC: Some good thinking and planning for the future. I could add some to this commentary, but I think we're getting better results with me lying low on directions about what to do, and coming in with moves that nobody is anticipating, like disbanding the scouts. Nobody picked up on that this turn, but I bet there won't be a scout left standing on anybody's shadow by 150BC! Sometimes it's better to see mistakes in action to better appreciate them, and what goes into avoiding them, as well as what makes for stronger positive moves and why. That is why we are doing this on Regent: PLENTY of room for mistakes or suboptimal moves, and the chance to recover from them or move on and cope with them.


Overall Grade: C-


count: Three. (Russian War, Settlements, Workers)
count: One. (Failed to Rushbuy key border projects)
count: One. (Traded Republic)


Hotrod is UP NOW.


- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

I have it and will try to post tomorrow.

Hotrod

 

[hotrod0823]

350 BC (0): Looks like plenty of gold to rush temples in a few cities. Warwick temple: 64 gold, Liverpool temple: 128 gold. No diplo action.

IBTWN: China declares WAR!!!???? Attacks warrior protecting worker near Brighton, and defeats warrior taking our worker.

330 BC (1): Warwick completes temple starts worker. Liverpool completes temple starts worker. Fire taxman at Warwick and entertainer at Liverpool, scouts heading home. Swordsman became elite btwn turns heading to Chengdu

310 BC (2): Learn Poly start Feudalism 10 turns at -3 gold, Misc scout movement. spear fortifies in Birmingham. MM at Nottingham to grow next turn.

290 BC (3): Mines started In Oxford, disband scout in Liverpool. Disband scout in Warwick.

270 BC (4): London finishes barracks starts horseman, Hastings finishes temple start settler. Missed disorder in reading and Dover, grew to 3 without temples or lux, hired taxmen.
Elite warrior defeats Russian regular swordsman, Russia will accept peace but I decide to wait. Disband another scout in Warwick.

250 BC (5): York Lib/start sword, Liverpool worker/start Lib., Birmingham worker/temple. Elite sword defeats elite china warrior, elite warrior dies on the sword of reg russian swordsman.

230 BC (6): Warwick worker/start Library, Richmond worker/start temple. Elite sword defeat china spear near Chengdu.
Sending reinforcement from Nottingham to front lines

IBTWN: Rome completes Colossus

210 BC (7): Spear fortify in Brighton. Sword returning home awaiting reinforcements

IBTWN: Elite sword 3 hp is defeated by china vet sword??, France wants COL and Map for Maps, NO TRADE. Trade WM for TM, she seems happy. Overthrow Ninevey, take it ofcourse!! ::biggrin::

190 BC (8): York sword, start another. London Horse, start another. Settler at Hastings will wait for new spearman for an escort to the wheaty North.

Diplo check: Babs have Monotheism but lack lit still, no trades, Mono must have been the free tech.

France lacks: lit,poly and republic, no trades
Gremany lacks: Everything, lit, poly, currency, republic and construction
Accept peace with Russia and get +25 gold, she has mono as well and will try to trade for it.
China still won't talk, figured it is best not to fight on 2 fronts at once so took peace with Russia.

Russia wants lit and Republic for monotheism, no trades yet.
China wants to meet: accept peace for 11 gold. They are behind in tech.

Maybe took peace prematurely but we lack all offensive military power. Build up the military and then we can sustain a war.

170 BC (9): War ends and we go into disorder raise lux to 10%. Change Warwick to settler, babs are sending a settler/spear pair by boat.

150 BC (10): Hurry settler in warwick for 104 gold. Monotheism still to expensive to trade for they want too much. Babs wont even offer it. Feudalism in 2 turn at +8 gpt. Lux set to 10%.

Made peace with Russia and China, we just weren't ready to fight YET!!! Next time will be different.
TWo settler ready to move next turn, one in Hastings, the other in Warwick.
Ninevah flipped to us but is a dog of a city, stuck at 2 should probably change to worker to get some good tiles.


Hotrod





McProd, 150 BC

 

[Sirian]

350BC: Rushing those temples is a must-do move. Should have been done sooner, but this is the soonest you can do it on this round.

330BC: More workers at unconnected cities is a good choice. Get them hooked up so they can import lux and grow larger, have corruption reduced, etc.

290BC: A little too much mining, not quite enough irrigating. Not getting to be a problem as yet, but it's always best to have a mix of tiles so you can run high food when that is warranted.

270BC: You let Dover starve to death. Not a big deal, gamewise, as that's a low-shield city, corrupt, and not doing much of anything. In an odd sense, you got the best value here (my temple rush has long term value, but high short term cost). You were also, by far, the stingiest with the lux taxes this round, and that was a GOOD thing. Very good. Several rounds ahead on science as compared to everyone else this round, except my shadow.

Running lux taxes is something you do for the core, or perhaps if enough of your corrupt cities are suffering to make it worth the cost. 12gpt is a lot, though. "What can wait, should wait" is not what applies here. This is a matter of coordinating projects, which includes a cost-benefit analysis of lux taxes vs entertainers. The further out a city, and the few cities who benefit from a lux tax, the less worthwhile it is to be doing. Entertainers in core cities, especially very early in the game, is a tragic mistake, but later on they start to make more sense. You really have to weigh each decision as you go. No rule of thumb works perfectly in every situation. That's the replayability of Civ III: based on your land, resources, neighbors, there is always a lot of thinking to do to manage your empire efficiently.

210BC: You have to learn how to reduce unit exposure. Just because you CAN attack an exposed enemy unit does not always make it worthwhile to do so. This is a big lesson you can learn in the Always War variant: how to reduce losses, how to figure out which targets can wait, vs which cannot.

The good news is, you still managed to successfully defend the homeland. Your army management here was not that great (check out some of the shadow results), but it also had no major blunders, which is the most important thing. No cities lost, no major setbacks.

You did have a great stroke of luck to make up for the army losses, though, and that was the Ninevah flip. Very sweet! And on the official turn, too. That city should probably be starved down to size 1 (unless playing Honorably, in the Epics style, starvation down to one foreign national is almost always wise, then regrow the city from there, all the new pop is your own nationality of citizens).

Not quite a great leader, but still a very fortunate break. Should rush a temple there soon, get the border pressure to go away. Sometimes it IS better to be lucky than good.

150BC: The peace treaties are fine. Everyone needs to keep in mind, we will honor those treaties for twenty turns here.

As for science, we don't need to trade for Monotheism. We can follow them up the tree as far as they will carry us and research techs they know at deflated prices and keep the money OUT of the hands of the AI's. You only want to buy from them if you plan to ride their coattails for a while, or want to trade your first-civ techs for theirs to speed overall tech progress (if pursuing "fastest" type victories and goals. If not, it's better, always better, to slow the AI's).

Ninevah could train a worker. It's not that much of a dog, though. ANY city that close to the capital is going to be strong, eventually.


Overall Grade: B-

count: Three. (Defense, Settlers, Happiness Management)
count: Three. (Workers, London kept small, Some Tactically Weak Military operations)


Sirian <<<<<< UP NOW
Black Cursor < On Deck
Rowain deWolf
Zot
Hotrod0823


I'll give you guys a couple days to play, then post my round.

NOTE: As of the round coming up, to 50AD, we are moving Prod to Patch 1.29f. Those of you playing Epics Six or Seven who don't otherwise need to patch have my permission to play your shadow for this round on the old patch, if that will help you out. That won't be possible for 250AD, though, as the Official round will be updated to the new patch this round.


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Not sure where everyone's at. Only one shadow posted all week?


IT 150BC: Lots of minor adjustments here. Nottingham to worker, and shared tile ceded to Norwich. York shared tile ceded to London. London swap to marketplace. York swap to spearman, current spearmen awakened and sent east to meet up with settler. Dover spear wakened and sent south to meet with settler down there. Liverpool swapped to high shields and changed to granary. (No more need for high culture, the rival city has flipped to us, removing the pressure). Ninevah starvation plan ixnayed, instead we'll peel off a worker, then rush the temple afterward. Canterbury swapped to high shields, project changed to aqueduct. Coventry library upheld. Newcastle put on high shields. Hastings swapped to granary. Leeds to courthouse. Birmingham to worker. Maps brokered for chump change. Science raised to 80%, 43gpt deficit, can run zero next turn and pull in more gold, be at same science result but more cash (the old RBD7 turnip squeeze).

Well, OK. Like I said, just a few adjustments.

130BC: Settler trained in Warwick, starts courthouse. Feudalism discovered, start Engineering. (We have a lot of rivers, would help workers and unit mobility to get bridges online, plus I decided to wait and see if China or France can help lower the cost on Monotheism). Science to ZERO. Will be a net gain of 21g over running 50% science for two turns, doing it my way of 80/0 over two turns. PLUS the spear I was training at York got upgraded in orders to pikeman, so we'll have one pikeman available. One spear apiece from Brighton and Newcastle awakened and sent toward Nottingham. Nottingam trains worker, starts granary.

110BC: Paris completes Pyramids, Babs take Oracle on the cascade. York trains pike, starts catapult. Science to 50%. Renegotiate peace with Joanie for 30g plus her maps. Trade Russia the Republic @4th and Right of Passage for Monotheism @3rd. Fortify the two spears in Nottingham, then zoom the city and upgrade them there (this is how to upgrade them but keep them fortified). A little risky with Cathy, perhaps, but we will have pikes, catas and other military to deal with her next treachery. Meanwhile, she's polite now, and we gave up little. She could pull down Republic from one of the other AI's, maybe even soon, so might as well get ahead of that game while the chance is there.

90BC: Norwich finishes temple, starts courthouse. Birmingham unhappy bastids converted to taxmen. Pike and spears shuffle on northwest front.

70BC: Brighton finishes temple, starts walls. York trains cat, starts another. MM at Nottingham, Hastings, Leeds. Cata heading toward west. Dover swapped to courthouse. Germans founded Heidelburg in the northeast, so that will be our last settler heading up that way. Pikes in position on the front. Two more spears upgraded at Nottingham.

50BC: Richmond riots. (Oops). Preferable to avoid those, but only one shield and a couple food lost, nowhere near like allowing core cities to riot. It helps a LOT in Civ if you roll with the punches, don't get too bent out of shape over little mistakes, etc. You want to minimize mistakes, but beating yourself up over them is not the way to accomplish that. Aqueduct finished in Canterbury, starts granary. (Best to do the granary first, but I inherited this city with a lot of shields built up. It was working on a library). Birmingham trains worker, starts another. Workers in south move to chop forest to aid Exeter and open faster road to it.

30BC: York trains cat, starts another. Dover needs Happiness management, luckily more trade avoids a taxman. Science to zero (need some cash for a rushjob). Coventry finishes library, starts worker.

10BC: Nottingham builds granary, starts worker. (TEN food per turn, and TEN shields per turn, at this city at size 8).

10AD: York trains cat, starts Archer (need to start thinking about reinforcing the eastern front). Ninevah trains Bab worker, starts temple. Road networks to unconnected cities making good progress. Nottingham trains worker, starts pikeman.

30AD: Barely beat AI's to Cambridge location. Rush temple in Ninevah. Science back to 50%. Hastings changed to barracks. London builds market, starts worker. Coventry trains worker, starts granary.

50AD: York trains Archer, queues a worker then a pikeman onto the build list. (You'll see why on the worker at this timing). Irrigations progressing in the west. Leeds builds courthouse, starts GALLEY. Ninevah builds temple, starts spearman. (This can be changed if core cities manage to send reinforcements). London finishes worker, starts pikeman. (We need to train a bevy of pikemen and soonish. I intended to do more with military on my turn, but key cities needed infra upgrades badly). Science reduced to 40%, as our costs are rising with more units and infra coming online. (Markets and courthouses may offset this, but what we really need is more luxuries online. There's a fur in Range of Exeter if we can win the culture war down there, but right now it's too insecure to warrant heavy spending. Need to boost our troop presence in the area before we try any of that).

MAJOR progress on road network this turn. Road to Liverpool will open immediately, so after its granary is done, put it on food and get it rocking. Road to Coventry will open very soon. After it does, add those workers to the last tile needing cleared on the way to Warwick. Bab units interfered with and slowed road building in the northeast, but there are two workers in Reading ready to finish connecting that segment. ALL our cities ought to be online by the end of next round. Also, road progress toward our neighbors is also happening. Road to China will open trade with that nation next round. Road to Germany can open soon, they they are broke and have little to offer us. Road to Babylon could be opened next round as well, or soon after. Road to Russia may open soon (We have built to their border).

Diplo: Some Rights of Passage could be renewed, but we may want to hold off on that, see what turns up. The AI's have little cash, no tech, and RoP could save us a bundle if we go to buy luxuries off of the AI's.


Prod 50AD


- Sirian

 

[Sirian]

Sirian
Black Cursor <<<< UP NOW
Rowain deWolf << On Deck
Zot
Hotrod0823


TBC should be back on Tuesday. The rest of you can take your shadows as you're ready. Good luck.

- Sirian

 

[Black Cursor]

I'm back from Mexico, patched, and playing. Expect my report presently.

---> TBC

 

[Black Cursor]

As I learned on my trip to Mexico, if the people don't work, they don't eat -- government policy. Sounds reasonable, so let's Prod our nation to more work! Also, at the pier in Cabo a gunboat was docked alongside the fishing and tour boats, so a military presence looks like a winner as well. Finally, there was plenty of construction going on following hurricane destruction, so infrastructure too, gets attention.

50AD 0) Things look in good shape, naturally, but I do swap Nottingham to high food and broker our maps for what I can get (not much). The Chinese interlopers are told to leave which they are more than happy to do.

-- At Exeter, the forest is harvested for 10 shields. York finishes Worker, starts Pike. Nottingham finishes Pike, swaps back to high shields, starts Pike. Liverpool finishes Granary, swaps to high food, starts Library. Brighton finishes Walls, starts Catapult.

70AD 1) Road the plains/horses at Brighton. Nottingham sends its new Pike to Canterbury. Canterbury wakes its Spear and sends to Dover. Irrigate plains at Norwich. Mine bgs at Liverpool and Exeter.

90AD 2) Brighton Pike stands guard over Worker near the border. MM Newcastle to minimize waste (All subsequent MM activities are similar); plains are irrigated as well. Mine grass at London. Road forest at York. Road hills at Reading. Mine bg at Leeds. Road and finish bg at Dover. MM Canterbury and Hastings and hire an Entertainer for the latter.

-- We Love the Trainer(tm) day celebrated in Hastings. Hastings finishes barracks, MM (fire Entertainer), starts Pike. Canterbury finishes Granary, starts Worker. Our palace expands as well.

110AD 3) Mine hills at Canterbury. Road plains to complete trade route to Germany. Road forest/dyes at Richmond (more stuff to trade). Clear forest at Hastings. Mine bg at Dover. MM Nottingham.

-- London finishes Pike, starts Pike. York finishes Pike, starts Pike. Nottingham finishes Pike, starts Pike. Borders expand and with the Entertainer now departed, WLTK ends in Hastings.

130AD 4) MM Newcastle. Irrigate plains and plains/horses at Brighton. York's new Pike heads to Reading. Nottingham's Pike to Norwich. London's to Coventry. Clear jungle at Dover. Road bg at Exeter. MM Canterbury and Birmingham (hire Entertainer), reduce Science to 30%. With a trade route available to China, get ROP and Furs for ROP, Dyes and 25g.

-- Engineering learned, Science to 40%, research Invention (due in 12). WLTK in London. Canterbury finishes Worker, starts Harbor. Birmingham finishes Worker, starts Worker. Palace expands again.

150AD 5) Road plains at Norwich. Road grass/gems at Oxford. Mine bg at Liverpool and Nineveh. Mine hills at Canterbury. Brighton swapped to Aqueduct. Norwich, Warwick (hire Entertainer), and Richmond (hire Entertainer) are MM'ed.

-- WLTK ends in London. Hastings finishes Pike, starts Pike. Norwich finishes Courthouse, MM, starts Granary. Leeds finishes Galley, starts Granary. The Chinese start work on The Great Library (lost the opportunity to sell Mao Literature).

170AD 6) Irrigate plains at Newcastle with a Pike on guard duty. Irrigate plains/horses at Brighton. Mine hills at London. Road hills/gold at Hastings to hook up NE cities. Add a worker to speed additional connection of dyes. Rush Reading's Temple for 116g. MM and hire a SECOND ENTERTAINER in Reading. This is short term only until the Temple is finished.

-- London finishes Pike, starts Pike. York finishes Pike, starts Pike. We've got a good three-turn cycle here. Nottingham finishes Pike, starts Settler seeing how it's almost size 12. Newcastle finishes Courthouse, MM, starts Aqueduct. Reading finishes Temple (natch), MM (fire Entertainer #2). starts Worker. The Germans start work on The Great Wall.

190AD 7) Road plains at Norwich. The latest dance craze sweeping our nation -- The Pikeman shuffle! York's Pike to Hastings; wake Hastings Pike and send to Oxford. London's Pike to Canterbury; wake Canterbury's Pike and send to Dover. Nottingham's Pike to York; wake York's Pike and send to Reading. Wake Reading's Pike and send to Richmond. More clearing of jungle at Dover. Road bg at Exeter. Our Galley sets out to explore the local waters. MM Birmingham and hire an Entertainer.

-- Oxford finishes Courthouse, starts Aqueduct. We learn the name of the last nation -- America, as New York completes The Great Lighthouse. Can we be the first to make contact?

210AD 8) Road grass at Brighton. Irrigate plains at Norwich and Cambridge. Completing the bg at Dover connects the SW; this bg is now mined. Road bg at Liverpool and Leeds. Mine grass/gems at Oxford. Wake Hasting's Pike and send to Liverpool. The Galley continues on. MM Birmingham and Warwick and fire their Entertainers who are no longer needed.

-- Hastings finishes Pike, starts Marketplace. WLTK in Reading. The Russians join the Germans in the Great Wall race. The French start The Great Library (another Literature sale missed and France is NOT Scientific either! I refuse to sell to the other Scientifics now).

230AD 9) Road forest at Newcastle and York. Mine hills and MM at Canterbury. The final road link is finished at Hastings -- all our cities (save Nineveh) are connected! No rest for the local workers though, they start to mine the hills/gold where they stand. Bgs are mined at Dover and Exeter. Galley: stroke! stroke!

-- London finishes Pike, starts Pike. York finishes Pike, starts Market (I think we have enough garrisons now). Nottingham finishes Settler, starts Market.

250AD 10) York's Pike goes to Nottingham. Mine mountains/gems at Oxford. Irrigate plains at Birmingham. MM Nottingham, Reading and Richmond, with our largest city (Nottingham, of course) getting an Entertainer as well. Nottingham's Settler heads NW.

The end-of-turn diplomacy nets us some extra gold. Renegotiating the peace with China gets their maps and 12g. Renegotiating peace with Russia -- maps and 59g. All others are too poor to deal except China, and I choose NOT to sell them Gems at this time. Better deals will probably be available when trade routes open to Babylon and Russia. With the extra gold, I elect to rush Dover's Courthouse (72g) at the last.

At the end of the turn, we have Pikes in nearly all border towns or on the way, many improved tiles working, and more support buildings in place. I'd counsel to let the buildings in progress finish, and consider rushing Richmond's and possibly Exeter's temples (note Sirian's reservations about its flip chances, though). That Settler is targeted for the Chengdu-Shanghai-Konigsberg gap -- be sure to pull an escort from Brighton or Newcastle.

Be seeing you...

---> TBC (a Truly Beautiful Cruise)

TBC's Official Turn -- 250 AD

 

[Sirian]

50AD: The food micromanagement at Nottingham sounds good, but did it shave a turn off the city growth rate in the end? Not if you then went back to high shields the next turn, as you stated. Now you might have gained a gold or two from the commerce of the extra citizen, but odds are it didn't make any real difference.

One thing to keep an eye on is "Turns to Complete". If you don't improve that, you haven't made any difference. Micromanage to improve, say, from seven food per turn to nine, still takes three turns either way. Thus, I had the city on "good for a few rounds" configuration, so it wouldn't need continual attention. One thing about micromanaging in Civ3 is that your own time, as a human being, is also an economic factor in playing the game. Some things aren't worth your time, or can be arranged to take up less of your time and attention. You may not realize how to distinguish those yet, but I've had lots of practice managing cities and I have my own cost-benefit analysis running.

MM action that saves a shield or two food in the first fifty or eighty turns can be a very big deal. It can speed a city's founding by a turn, which if you are in a heated race to grab land, can even make the difference between getting the spot you wanted, or not. Such early decisions and results carry impact all the way down the line, but the AMOUNT of that impact diminishes for a new MM opportunity with each passing turn. Part of becoming a veteran player is shifting from "nitpick everything" micromanagement in the early turns, when everything matters, over to a more time-economic approach, where you set a city to run itself for a short while, if you can do so at no real cost lost.

So each of you MM'ed Nottingham on the first turn except for me. That's great news in one sense: you are all paying attention and have learned how to manage your cities better. Yet I suppose in another sense it does speak to the need or at least the value of pressing on through the TDG, since strategies important to the early game can, if overused, actually derail your efforts later, when a shift to other priorities is required.


70AD: Mining at Liverpool? Not a good sign. Same with Exeter. I think you just cost yourself a shot at an "A" for this round. Why? Well, Liverpool has so many mountains, all high shield tiles, that it's going to need max irrigation just to grow to its full potential. Exeter's shields can wait. What can't wait is getting the city connected and getting a road over to our furs. Well, let me open the save file now and check your results.

Ack! You mined the grass at London??

You seem to have done only mining all around. Not good. Population is power. We need London to size 12 as quickly as we can get there. Once it's there, THEN we can make use of all those hills it's got and crank some inhuman production levels. In the mean time, the %difference one shield makes vs one food, in that situation, is just phenomenal. The food improves the growth rate by 50%, while the shield improves the production rate by... about 8%.

See my comments in the shadow critiques about mining at Liverpool.

You missed the chance to rush the temple at Exeter. Not too late, but definitely would have helped to take care of that sooner.

90AD: An entertainer for Hastings? Hastings? Are you sure you got the name right? I don't recall having any happiness issues at Hastings.

110AD: Trade route to Germany's good. You did well with getting the roads connected up all around. Lots of pike training happening. Our military situation should be much improved.

170AD: Reading's temple was a good buy. I did that myself. The one at Exeter has urgency, though, being in a bevy of quail down there, AND trying to contest for a furs. That one really shouldn't have waited.

As for shrinking Nottingham: no no no! No! We WANT it to be size 12, and swapped over to high shields config. Check the results in my shadow. The priority in the middle ages is on Coordinating Projects for efficiency civ-wide, not necessarily squeezing every penny of efficiency out of a given city, at the cost of urgent civ-wide needs. Like research and income, from our big, built-up cities. Like possible wonder production, etc. We don't want Nottingham on regular settler production running high food (especially with nowhere really to send the settler). We want it on big stuff no other city can handle well, on high shields. The whole point of improving tiles is to put them to use.


You may have overemphasized the military this round. Some of that troop-building could have waited, and you seem to have built only defensive units, but overall you did a good job bolstering defenses. Better safe than sorry. The lack of irrigations really hurts. In some cases, we'll even need to irrigate over stuff you mined. A couple irrigation of grass at London would be a really good idea soon. We we could get it up to five surplus food per turn, get to size 12 quickly and THEN work a few mines, we'll be much stronger much more quickly. It's no accident that Nottingham is the strongest city right now: it has had the food to grow quickly, but still has access to improved shield tiles. The ability to swap to high food or high shields as desired is one benefit to spreading your cities out a little more, as opposed to jamming them together.

The furs in the southwest were neglected. Would be nice to have them secured culturally and connected before the fur deal with China runs out.

Glad you enjoyed your vacation. Welcome back!


Overall grade: C+

count: Two. (Defenses bolstered, Roads)
count: One. (Neglected Irrigations)


Sirian
Black Cursor
Rowain deWolf << UP NOW
Zot <<<<<<<<< On Deck
Hotrod0823



- Sirian

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Got it

Rowain

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Report 250AD - 350AD

250AD (0T): Diploround without any trades;
London switched to Cathedral to make it a WLTT-City;
Need Money to rush Exeter and Richmond so i set Science to 0 and earn 107 gpt;

AOur Galley wins against a barbarian vessel;
Dover fin Courthouse since it has no Culturebuilding i start Library;
reading expands;

260AD (1): I don't know where to settle i sent Settler back;
Temple rushed in Exeter;
Cancel the mining in Gems-Mountain; Worker sent to mined grass near Liverpool to irrigate;

Another Barb-ship attack our Galley and looses;
Exeter fin Temple and starts Library;

Paris fin GreatWall; China starts Great Library;

270AD (2): Nottingham is already Size 11 so i sent the Settler to London;
Temple in Richmond rushed;Science up 1 notch Invention in 22 by +90;
Diplocheck shows that Babylon and Russia have learned Lit; China learned Mono; I buy a (russian)Worker for 27 gold;

Niniveh finish Spear; Norwich finish Granary and Richmond fin Temple; All three start A Library;
Russia starts GreatLib too;

280AD (3): Science up to normal Inv in 6 by 18gpt;
Another mined grass gets irrigated by Liverpool;
MM Coventry to make sure Granary is built before it grows;

Reading fin Worker starts Lib;

290AD (4): Worker mine Hill near Reading;
Diplo: Mono to France for Wine+10gold+WM;
Babylon seems to learn Feudalism since Hamy offers a lot less for it than for Engineering; I don't trade Feud which is very probably but i deemed it not worth;

Canterbury fin Harbor starts Courthouse;
Coventry fin Granary starts Market;
Birmingham fin Worker starts Courthouse;

300AD (5): Hamy has now Feud;

Liverpool fin LIbrary starts a Courthouse;
Exeter expands to the furs;

310AD (6): Taxman in NOttingham for one turn till Market fin;
Russia has now Monarchy;

Russia give WM+5gold for Wm;
Nottingham fin MArket starts FP Taxman fired;

320AD (7): WM + 40 gold from Mao for Gems; Worker clear woods on fur;

Invention mastered start Theology (Bab researched Feud ; Russia Monarchy so i think its better to researchit ourself ans Educaion afterwards. Goal sell Edu the civ that finish Great Library so they won't get other techs);
Hastings fin Market starts Courthouse;

330AD (8):

York fin Market starts Horseman;
Hasting celebrate the Trainer;

340AD (9):

350AD (10): a last Diplocheck shows me that i did not get any possible Feudalism-tradings; Even Germany lacks only Engineering so i wonder what they traded for three techs;

Rowain

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/McProd_of_the_English,_350AD.zip

 

[Sirian]

260AD: Interesting choice, to forego settling in the disputed region and meld the settler into London. London SHOULD have enough food by now to be size 12, like Nottingham, and would be if I were soloing the whole game, but adding population there at least gets a significant boost to our strength. On average, there is often a need for standby settlers to be ready to grab razed sites quickly, or step in to disputed areas if a different civ conquers some cities (and resets its cultural standing to nil), so it's rarely a bad idea to have a settler sitting around in the middle ages or the industrial period. It's only bad if you do that too early, before the land grab phase is truly over (and including settling islands, etc). I liked the move, though. You showed initiative with it, as it is not something I've mentioned here before.


290AD: Figuring when to broker your tech lead to gain the most for your goods, and slow the AI's down the most, is a fine art. It involves mostly experience, but your analysis of the situation is very advanced. These Regent AI's are so cash and resource poor on average, but then again, the AI's tend to be as a general rule. It's hard to get them to pay for anything in the early or middle game. It's not until late (and not always then) that their economies have a sizeable surplus with which to pay fair values.

The real unfairness of the AI's is that they pay mostly in gpt, and the same turn deals expire, they start new ones, shutting the player out of any fair bidding for their patronage. It's definitely a bit of a cheat in their favor, but probably one they need, considering that when the player used to have more of a chance to get in on the deals, the game was imbalanced in the other direction, where you could ride better and better broker deals to "tech whore" your way to success regardless of what your civ itself was doing. (That actually being the term applied by Firaxis employees, heh. I find it crude and even inaccurate, but I suppose my objections aren't going to see it fall into disuse).


The only thing I don't understand on review is why Cathy attacked TBC but not you, since you didn't reinforce the south either. That was something I did immediately on my shadow: start bolstering the front line cities where they were thin.

Your Dover is not making use of its best tiles, but the rest of the cities are in great shape. Nice round. You also did a good job with the irrigations this turn. Maybe even a little too good in a couple spots: Norwich and Newcastle actually lack a bit for strong shield tiles to swap to or include. Don't forget to mine some of those plains. Always better to have a mix of high and low food or shield tiles rather than a flat 2-food, 1-shield almost everywhere. You get the same average, but some variability for micromanagement.

It probably doesn't pay at this point to have sent the galley wandering off. Inspecting the sea tiles around the continent reveals mostly deep ocean out there. I didn't see many sea currents that might lead to offshore islands, and without a settler and spear onboard, even if we found one, we couldn't take advantage.


Overall Grade: A-

count: Three. (City Management, Aggressive Border Improvements, Workers).
count: None.


Sirian
Black Cursor
Rowain deWolf
Zot <<<<<<<< UP NOW
Hotrod0823 << On Deck


- Sirian

 

[Zot]

I've run my turn.
I'll wait till a shadow has been logged, or a Monday night, whichever comes first.

 

[Zot]

0)350AD - Nottingham's spear is upgraded to pike. This makes me feel better about sending Nottingham's pike on a relay down south to Canterbury so that the pike there can go to Dover. I send Dover's pike toward Exeter (he'll be there next turn). I improve Dover's use of tiles, to finish the library in 10 turns rather than 13. Also expands in 5 rather than 15 turns. Other minor tweaks to city tiles around our nation to use them better. I bump science up to 50% to gain 2 turns on Theology, and I still don't lose any money. I notice worker chopping down forest outside London and York. Why? The one outside London will be done this this turn, which will waste it, since our cathedral is also done this turn. I take one of the workers away to do womething else. This causes the other worker to need 6 turns to complete the task, which means that when I assign the next thing for London to build, I need to make it something that will take more than 6 turns. The newly free worker moves to clear the jungle on the other side of London. York is currently training a horseman, which will finish in 2 turns, which is also the same turn that the workers will be done chopping the trees, thereby wasting the ten shields. I decide to change York to a courthouse instead. A cathedral might be the better option, since we are only losing one shield and three gold to corruption. I will make a point of checking back before this finishes. I notice that Leipzig is now under Chinese rule. When did that happen? I extort 53 of Cathy's 72 gold for continuing ROP and our world map. I considered taking 2gpt + 17g, which would be 57 total gold, but I thought it would be better to drain as much of Cathy's gold as possible. I get ivory (and he thows in world map and his treasury of 2 gold) for ROP and gems and dyes. I did not like giving up both the luxuries for only one, but it will give us 6 lux, so there may be some WLTT days! The AIs that have Monarchy (all but Germany, who is way behind) seem to want the world for the old tech. I guess we will wait and see if we can get it thrown in later, or we may have to research it for last civ prices later. No one has Engineering, so I keep it to myself. With the extra lux, I can drop our luxury to 0% and bump the science up to 60%. This gets us Theology in 4 turns with a 9 gold profit! Wow, that was a lot of stuff for the preturn.

Between turns: London finishes cathedral, and starts a Sun Tzu's. It is scheduled to take 38 turns, but we will get the ten shield from the forest chopping. London is using all of its useable tiles, and has no extra food, and no way to rearange the tiles to get more food. We will soon have the forest shopped and the jungle will be getting cleared. Hopefully, we can get London expanding again. Newcastle finishes aqueduct and starts granary. Liverpool's culture expands.

1)360AD - Misc Movement. I rush Warwick's courthouse for 148 gold. I probably should have done it last turn, but with all the other stuff, I must have forgotten.

Between Turns: Forest harvested near Exeter. Forest harvested near York. Mao wants to talk. He want Engineering for Monarchy, I don't think so. Joan wants to trade maps, I have no problem with that. WLTT day in London. Warwick's rushed courthouse is done and a granary is started. Norwich finishes a library, and starts a marketplace. Leeds finishes a granary, and starts a worker.

2)370AD: Misc Movement. While looking at diplo, Joanie is now willing to part with Monarchy for Republic. she is the only one who doesn't know it yet, so I have no problem giving it to her.

Between Turns: Cathy connects to our trade network. Canterbury finshes courthouse and starts a worker.

3)380AD - Misc Movement. Cathy has nothing for us, and we have nothing that I want to use to get her money. Maybe we should get more of those gems on line. Adjust science down to 50% to still finish Theology and make a 35 gold profit. When we traded Republich to Joanie, that must have really pleased her, because she is now gracious to us.

Between Turns: We finish researching Theology and start Education. I bump science up to 60% and still get a 8 gold profit. Hastings finishes courthouse and starts a worker. Canterbury finishes a worker and starts another. It should be changed to something else next time.

4)390AD - Misc Movement. The furs are now online down near Exeter. Since we do not need Mao's furs, I renegotiate so that we keep the dyes that we were sending to Mao. I keep the ROP. This allows us to sell the dyes to Cathy for 3gpt and 59 gold. I spend the extra cash to rush the temple in Cambridge (140 gold). I change York's courthouse to a cathedral.

Between Turns: Hastings finishes worker and starts a library. Leeds finishes a workers and starts an aqueduct. Cambridges finishes the rushed temple and starts a courthouse. A granary may be better, but either will take a loooong time.

5)400AD - Misc Movement.

Between Turns: Canterbury finishes a worker and starts marketplace. Oxford finshes an aqueduct and starts a granary.

6)410AD - Misc Movement. Adjust science down to 50% without affecting when Education is finished, netting us 31 gpt in profit.

Between Turns: Nottingham finishes our Forbidden Palace! It starts a library. I thought about starting a wonder, but thought that we should at least have a library in our biggest city. It will only take 4 turns. Oh no! The Chinese are building Sun Tzu's, hopefully we have enough of a head start in London.

7)420AD - Misc Movement. I trade maps with Mao, so make sure I have an updated map of his cities. F7 shows that he is building Sun Tzu's in Tsingtao. Since there was no completed wonders last turn to cause a cascade, I am guessing he is starting it from scratch. The city is only size 7, has a mine on a hill (which may be shared with another city), a mine on some wheat in a plain, and some woods (only one of which is paved). I think London can take him.

Between Turns: Brighton finishes an aqueduct and starts a marketplace. The Russians and the Babylonians are now also building Sun Tzu's! The Chinese are building the Hanging Gardens.

8)430AD - Misc Movement. Bizzi has a little bit of cash(19) that I extort for renegotiating ROP. After trading maps with Cathy and Hammi, I see that the two cities working on Sun Tzu's should not have a chance. Neither Ellipi or Smolensk have the resources.

Between Turns: Newcastle finishes granary and starts a markerplace. Cambridge's culture expands. Germany is also getting in on trying to build Sun Tzu's.

9)440AD - Misc Movement. Science to 40% still get Education this turn and nets us 90% in profit.

Between Turns: We finish researching Education and start on Gunpowder. Which at 60% science we will finish in 6 turns with a 16 gold profit. Warwick's cultural influence supposedly expands. Dover finishes library and starts temple. I did not realize that dover had not done a temple. The library was started before my turn. I should have changed it earlier. Norwich's cultural influence expands. The Germans are building the Great Library, which we made obsolete by discovering Education.

10)450AD - Misc Movement. A tile that was being irrigated for London has been finished. I change a tile so that London now is producing an extra food. It adds one turn to Sun Tzu's, but when London expands, we should be able to make that up.

With 445 gold, we can do some rushing. Cambridge's courthouse would take 300 gold, but there needs to be some more improved tiles to make it worth it, I think. There are some workers in the area, which are helping Richmond and Reading. They could be dispatched to Cambridge when they are done doing what they are in the middle of. Birmingham's courthouse would only take 200 gold to rush, and would have a more immediate impact, since it has tiles that are going to waste due to corruption. I will leave it up to the next player to make that decision. Otherwise, I think the rest of the cities can wait for now, since they are cranking right along. It will be interesting to see where saltpeter shows up. I am guessing the desert between Brighton and Norwich and/or the desert near Reading and Leeds. Based on terrain Babylon is the only one that I think could have some problems getting saltpeter. So we need to watch out for Hammi, trying to reach out and get some.

prod-english-450ad.zip

 

[Zot]

I will be on vacation until Sept 3, and I will not be able to play during that time. So skip me if you need to.

 

[Sirian]

Enjoy your vacation! [dance] :jump:

 

[Sirian]

The workers out of Canterbury was a no-no. The one at Leeds was fine, but Canterbury is a core city with minimal corruption, high population and high production. It needs more good tiles, but not to a point of dropping it back down to size 6 and forcing it to go through all that extended food production to recover. This is bad project coordination. You could crank some workers out of dover or newcastle if you really needed them.

In fact, civ-wide you were weak on population growth this round. London didn't get to size ten and is sluggish on food, likewise York. You do have some jungle clears ongoing there, so you're working on making it better, but still. Adding more workers isn't a bad idea, but you should do it (if at all) in the outlying areas, not in the core cities.

The good news? That was all the bad news. You had a very strong round. Your handling of the economy was excellent. You are on par with the tech pace in my shadow round. You rushed a couple of key items, including the temple in the northeast. You had a good round of trade, and overall a good round of worker activity and city management.

One more nit: you wasted four or five worker turns to halt the forest chop at London, only to turn around and start a wonder there. Forest bonus is NOT applied to any wonders, great or small. So it went to waste anyway.

I hope you enjoyed your vacation.


Overall Grade: A-

count: Three. (Economy, Economy, Economy: effective trading, trim spending, strong research)
count: One. (Weak Core Population Growth)


Hotrod, you're Up. One concern on the horizon: falling behind the culture-rich Babs on the southern border.


- Sirian

 

[hotrod0823]

Prod - English 450 AD - 550 AD

450 AD (0): Change Exeter from Library to Courthouse and Rush for 120 gold. Change Warwick to library and rush for 208 gold. Change liverpool from courthouse to marketplace, only 1 sheild lost to corruption. Sue Russia for peace, get 33 of her 33 gold and 2 gtp. Sue Joanie for peace and get her 24 gold and 3 gpt. Sold the maps to Germany and China, babs have no money.

460 AD (1): Nottingham finishes library and starts Leonardo's workshop. With SunZ and leo's upgrades will be a breeze. Library finishes at Hastings, start pikeman for NE Cities defenses. Library at Warwick start granary. Marketplace finishes at Norwich start Cathedral. What is better to start cathedral or university? Courthouse finishes in Exeter, start library to be rushed soon. Palace expansion. MM London to grow in 6, reduces SunZu to 29 turns but will be picked up after growing. Also, may add a worker or two if necessary. Jungle clearing at NewCastle, move another worker towar London. Now getting Guns in 4 turns with +26 gpt.

470 AD (2): York builds Cathedral start Pikeman. Babs start Sistine Chaple, could've traded Theo but they are out of gold. China and Russia both have theo now. Get 12 gold from Germany and Joanie gives us 18 gold and 4 gpt. Join worker to London, , not really sure. Addition make 1 person unhappy, stops WLTTD, but Sun in 25 and growth again in 9 turns.

480 AD (3): WTTD in London ends still get Sun in 25 turns, grow in 8. Russia starts Sistenes, Babs start Handing Gardens. Mines at Exeter. Trade Theology to France for 32 gold, 3 gpt and WM. China, russia and Babs all have Theology. New peace deal with China for 20 of his 36 gold. Trade Bismarck Monarchy for his 15 gold. Hurry Exeter library for 288 gold.

490 AD (4): Coventry finishes Marketplace and starts Cathedral. Exeter finishes LIbrary and start Granary. Russia start Hanging Gardens. Lost our Frence Wines . She wants Engineer but will take education instead. Trade joan Education for WM, Wines and 9 gold. Will pedal Education to the others and kill the GL at the same time. Russia only offers 7 gold, I refuse. Germany doesn't even have Theology yet. Babs won't trade, but accept 40 gold and 11 gpt from China for Education, better we get his gold than France. With guns next turn set research to 40%, +136 gpt. Sun is due in 24, growth in 7 turns. Can grow in 4 if max food. Not sure if it is better or not? Decide to set to max food, get a new worker in 4 and Sun now in 26 but will pickup 2 more sheilds per turn after it grows. Not really sure about this one .

500 AD (5): York finishes pike start University. Will wait until saltpeter is online to make Musketment. There are 3 Saltpeters in our territory, by Exeter, Leeds and coventry. Nineveh builds Library and starts granary. Nineveh is not going to grow much until after the jungle is cleared and the area irrigated, shrinking now. Hasting builds pike, heads to Leeds, start Cathedral. Oxford builds granary starts library. Liverpool finished marketplace starts cathedral. French start SunTzu. Increase research to 50 %, +50 gpt, 5 turns to astronomy.

510 AD (6): Roads at oxford to addional gems. Galley hanging out on the Russian Coast. Hurry temple at Dover for 120 gold.

520 AD (7): Dover finishes temple starts granary. Trade mao gems for 9 gold and 6 gpt. Sued Germany for peace got his 11 gold and WM. Hurry library in Reading for 60 gold. Hurry library in Richmond for 100 gold.

530 AD (8): Cantebury finishes market start library. Reading finishes library and start granary. Richmond finishes library and starts granary. Hunch was right at London, now size 11 with growth in 20 turns and Sun in 17 turns, later can be slowed to finish at the same time as Leos in Nottingham. Leos is due in 18 now. If both finish at the same time there will be no cascade to leos. At least I think thats what will happen. Irrigation on new grass at Cantebury.

540 AD (9); Newcastle finishes market place, starts library. WLTTD in Canterbury. MM Newcastle to grow in 5 and get library in 8, 1 turn more than before, shave 4 turns off growth. Forestry and jungle clearing at York, needs help for growth. Adjust research to 50%, +101gpt. Hurry library at Oxford for 208 gold. China has Chivalry, should've know with the riders as the UU. Mao must have traded with Russia both have education and chivalry now. Mao will only give up Chivalry for Engineer and a bunch o cash. But Russia will trade Chivalry and cash for Engineering. Pull the trigger on the deal because China must be close to having Engineering.

Trade Russia Engineering for her 56 gold, WM and chivalry. Hold our tech but trade gems to France for 54 gold, and 4 gpt. She is broke. Babs and china wont trade for engineering. they are broke. Bismark is poor and no one is trading with him so take 1 gold for our Maps. He has 5 gold left and lacks Theology, Education, Engineering etc.

550 AD (10): Americans have destroyed the Romans. Oxford finishes library and starts marketplace. Brighton finishes Market and starts granary. China finishes Great Library in Beijing. Finish researching astronomy start on Navigation, for possible Magellens voyage, finish in 4 turns and +16 gpt.

Reup the ROP with Russia for 26 gold and 1 gpt. She is at 0 and lacks Invention/Guns and Astronomy
France has 0 gold and lacks Invention/Guns and Astronomy.
Germany has 9 gold and lacks Engineering/Invention/guns, Theoloy/Education/Astronomy and Chivalry.
Babs tried to renegociate the ivory deal and it back fired had to trade Engineering and gems for Ivory and his 5 gold. Babs lose our dyes but get engineering.
Trade China our newly free dyes for 4 gpt and WM, China has 0 gold and lacks Invention/Guns and Astronomy.

NO Cascade yet from the Library will come next turn.
All are building SunZu and if posible the Chapel.

Our Sun is due in 15 turns, Leo's in 16.

We have 254 gold, with research at 70% Navigation is due in 4 but could be changed without penalty and we get +21 gpt.



Here is the save:

Prod English 550 AD

 

[hotrod0823]

Couple quick questions: There are bunches of Wonders now available, can we get more of them or be satisfied with 2. Capernicus can be built, soon magellen's and later Bach's. Leos and Sun are a powerful combination but is a Sistene's chapel a better move? Can we get all three. Toyed with starting a wonder at Hastings but decided against it. The cascade for these "early" wonders is difficult to predict. The GL is gone and already obsolete, and Hanging gardens can be ours if we want. That only leave Sistene's and I am pretty sure that will undoutably cascade on to Bach's or Caps. With some many wonders is it realistic to try for only 2 and be happy or go for more and risk losing the production or having to switch to the palace.

Also, cathedral vs. University which comes first. Here I chose the cathedral first because of the tech lead but is this a good idea most of the time? Because we have many luxury and can run at 0% lux is a cathedral needed yet?

On last thing: Growth vs. production in a wonder city. I added a worker and it seemed to work out. Should I have added 2? I also allowed for city growth and mostly shields. Max shields will give a few less turns in the right away but the extra growth early on helps with even more shield over the long haul. I kinda figured this one out as I was playing. Is this logic faulty, can running at max growth actually be the best in the long run. It almost seems couter intuitive but works.

Okay enough ramblings.

Good luck to all

Hotrod

At least Sirian is up next and can fix my mistakes!

 

[hotrod0823]

Just a quick move up. I know its time to bring this up to the top when I have to change to the Last <b>20 days</b> for the reports .

Hotrod