Proof of human evolution?

[El_Machinae]

I'm questioning how much real contribution to society the rest are providing by deliberately sabotaging the education of their own children, as well as everybody else they possibly can.

I'll admit, I think that it causes a bit of kneecapping. It really depends upon what else is 'packaged' into that education. Specifically not understanding evolutionary theory DOES make it tougher to thrive in learning biology (and all of the resultant careers). Clearly, there are a ton of contributing careers that require zero biology knowledge. So, it depends on whether that education also includes other vices or pro-social teachings. On its own, yeah, evolutionary theory is useful. But, package it with a good Golden Rule foundation? Then, I dunno. Might be worth the trade.

 

[Flying Pig]

We British tend to believe that education should be for more than simply work; we don't educate lawyers, plumbers and farmers, we educate human beings. So it's intrinsically good to teach people how the world works, even if they never use that knowledge in their careers and gain no 'use' out of it. Few people will ever get any practical benefit from reading Dickens or learning how to play rugby, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't do it in school.

 

[Akka]

The thirst for knowledge is as a cup. Some are satisfied with a thimble. Some are like a bucket. Some are like a bottomless hole. Having what you or I might consider a "fuller grasp" on the "nature of things", unless they have a job as some kind of scientist, generally doesn't affect their everyday lives, how they provide for families, or how much "other" contribution they make to a great country.

As Formal said, it's not about "thirst of knowledge", it's about elementary school level of education.

To make a parallel : geography isn't "useful" in my regular life nor my work, I still know that Africa is a continent and where it is.

 

[Kyriakos]

As Formal said, it's not about "thirst of knowledge", it's about elementary school level of education.

To make a parallel : geography isn't "useful" in my regular life nor my work, I still know that Africa is a continent and where it is.

Yes, but you lived in the 80s in a country where German guitar-based music still was being heard.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'll admit, I think that it causes a bit of kneecapping. It really depends upon what else is 'packaged' into that education. Specifically not understanding evolutionary theory DOES make it tougher to thrive in learning biology (and all of the resultant careers). Clearly, there are a ton of contributing careers that require zero biology knowledge. So, it depends on whether that education also includes other vices or pro-social teachings. On its own, yeah, evolutionary theory is useful. But, package it with a good Golden Rule foundation? Then, I dunno. Might be worth the trade.

It is just the tip of the iceberg. Witness the efforts in Texas and elsewhere to literally rewrite the school books, as well as the campaigns to censor particular books from the school libraries.

The vast majority of Christians in Europe and even the majority in the US manage to be able to teach the Golden Rule in their own homes along with allowing evolution to be taught in the schools with no apparent adverse effects. But can the same be said for those who still preach intolerance and even hatred of homosexuals?

I think the US has progressed to the point where it is despite the efforts of these people to turn back the clock to a distant past. That it really has far more to do with the abundant natural resources and physical isolation from two world wars than those who have little or no desire at all to live in a truly secular society where children are taught the basic facts and prevailing scientific theories in school.

 

[bhsup]

As Formal said, it's not about "thirst of knowledge", it's about elementary school level of education.

To make a parallel : geography isn't "useful" in my regular life nor my work, I still know that Africa is a continent and where it is.

But is that really need-to-know information??


Link to video.

 

[El_Machinae]

But is that really need-to-know information?

Only if you're making moral decisions based off of reasoning that depends upon a different idea. And, really, only if those moral decisions aren't 'approximately correct' in outcome anyway.

 

[Adjuvant]

But can the same be said for those who still preach intolerance and even hatred of homosexuals?

How does "being gay" or even "better understanding of different peoples' methods of stimulating their genitals" affect how we build a better spaceship or arrive at a fundamentally fuller paradigm to comprehend spacetime, again?

edit: Are you of a mind homosexuality promotes a more advanced understanding of the universe? Does the shared release of endorphins with another of the same gender somehow make you superior now? Should we all go gay to better idealize P=NP?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Do I think the world would be unquestionably better without all the xenophobia, especially that which is induced by religious beliefs? Hmmm. Tough one...

 

[Adjuvant]

Right, because religion is the root of all prejudice, not that prejudice exists and religion illustrates it. What was I thinking.

Excuse me while I go shoot some messengers. Yeehaw.

"SPAAAARRRTAAAA"

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmaY_6gkbpU

 

[El_Machinae]

How does "being gay" or even "better understanding of different peoples' methods of stimulating their genitals" affect how we build a better spaceship or arrive at a fundamentally fuller paradigm to comprehend spacetime, again?

edit: Are you of a mind homosexuality promotes a more advanced understanding of the universe? Does the shared release of endorphins with another of the same gender somehow make you superior now? Should we all go gay to better idealize P=NP?

No, but I think that a tradition of reading the Bible that ends up with "evolution is false, God said so" is much more likely to include a tradition of wanting to discriminate against homosexuals. And I think that neither tradition superior to its opposite. I think that a better understanding of reality could lead to different interpretations of those scriptures, too.

 

[Adjuvant]

Well, as evidenced here, so-called "better understanding of reality" just leads to a big, thick head and different prejudices, not fewer prejudices.

Maybe we're evolving into "big-thick-headed" people.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, as evidenced here, so-called "better understanding of reality" just leads to a big, thick head and different prejudices, not fewer prejudices

No, I don't think that's true. At the very least, if we're completely biased towards having prejudices, these prejudices can lean towards being less and less harmful and incorrect. I don't think that "The Bible preaches evolution is false, and I choose to believe that" is part of that progress (luck excepted).

 

[Adjuvant]

No, I don't think that's true. At the very least, if we're completely biased towards having prejudices, these prejudices can lean towards being less and less harmful and incorrect. I don't think that "The Bible preaches evolution is false, and I choose to believe that" is part of that progress (luck excepted).

To wit, some peoples' interpretations of the Bible seem to insinuate evolution is false, and for lack of a real tangible need otherwise, they choose to run with it.

I grew up in it. I know.

 

[El_Machinae]

Right, and I suspect your concomitant desire to denigrate homosexuals comes from the same upbringing. The two concepts were tied, and thus needed to be shucked individually.

 

[Adjuvant]

Right, and I suspect your concomitant desire to denigrate homosexuals comes from the same upbringing. The two concepts were tied, and thus needed to be shucked individually.

I don't. I denigrate the principle any person should be ruled by their genitals or that their self-idealization should be centered around their endorphins. Further, I espouse traditional views of union.

To me, you're not a homosexual until you call yourself one, and then it becomes so important, you can't see straight. Until then, you're just a human with a sexual preference on a continuum, no different than me or anyone else.

edit: Actually, to me, you're still a human with a sexual pref. on a contiunuum, but the fact that messes with your self image is what makes you mad at me.

You're not somehow "more special" or "a different animal" just because you identify as being "gay".

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How does "being gay" or even "better understanding of different peoples' methods of stimulating their genitals" affect how we build a better spaceship or arrive at a fundamentally fuller paradigm to comprehend spacetime, again?

An observation.

Whenever the subject homosexuality comes up, you immediately make the reference to, as you call it, stimulation of genitals. While the term describes attraction. The same in the thread about Gay Marriage.

edit: Heh, you just did it again.

 

[Adjuvant]

Because, if you can remove sexual preference from the equation, you have, in my mind, a clearer understanding how we're all equal. I've said it over and over, I don't care who you love.

Now, take that which you (not I) espouse which makes you feel makes us "different" and put it on a continuum.

edit: edited for clarity, also I've implicitly stated it's "too bad" people feel this way, but it's understandable from the past schisms and prejudices.

further edit: and then the pendulum "swings" and my traditions get clubbed to crap.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because, if you can remove sexual preference from the equation, you have, in my mind, a clearer understanding how we're all equal. I've said it over and over, I don't care who you love.

Well, when I read remarks like:
Marriage is supposed to be a joyous celebration, not a "bullet point" for your legitimization of sexual deviancy.

It seems you are able to disregard love altogether. All the gays want is to use it as a "bullet point" for [their] legitimization of sexual deviancy.

But my observation still stands firm, so to speak.

 

[El_Machinae]

Because, if you can remove sexual preference from the equation.

Ah, You've conflated sexual stimulation with sexual preference. They're different things, and your consistent efforts to denigrate homosexual preferences seem to rely on that conflation. So, the contempt might drip a bit more than you intend. Don't feel too bad, the guy you're replacing did the same thing. He just could get past the visualization of gay men having sex.