Prove that God doesn't exist

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by eek!
Can't you comprehend? Just because you refute the fabricated story, doesn't mean you've disproved that a god may exist. Yes, the idea of god is the crux of the fabricated stories; however, the fabricated stories are not the crux of the idea of god. He would be quite capable of existing without people making up things about him. So, if you're going to disprove God, you're going to have to venture into other areas of thought.

Whatever you say, Mr Eek.
You go ahead and believe what you wish.

But if you wish to challenge the history of the human race, I wish you luck.

So, tell me how your athiestic god exists, Professor Eek?
You seem to know something countless billions of humans through history have missed.

An atheist, who defends the idea of god, that's a new take.
I may as well claim to be a christian...

Originally posted by eek!
It's trolls such as yourself that make me (somewhat) ashamed to call myself an atheist. Did you know that nearly every time I get in a debate such as this, I invariably end up arguing on the side of those with faith? Overstating your case and abandoning your intellectual integrity isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

Perhaps you are a christian you thinks he is an athiest.

And because I challenge religious dogma, I am a troll.
Sure thing. But forgive me if I spit on your double standard.

Well, your highness, please justify the myriad historical excesses of the followers of this god, performed in his name,
and then you can get high and mighty with your accusations, sir.

It's stuffed shirts who forget the past who make (somewhat) disdainful of the whole religionist arrogance.

It disgusts me actually.

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by CurtSibling
Whatever you say, Mr Eek.
You go ahead and believe what you wish.

But if you wish to challenge the history of the human race, I wish you luck.

So, tell me how your athiestic god exists, Professor Eek?
You seem to know something countless billions of humans through history have missed.

An atheist, who defends the idea of god, that's a new take.
I may as well claim to be a christian...

You seem to think that if you don't see any evidence for something, it must not exist. The truth is, that lack of evidence for something is only reason enough to not believe it exists. These beliefs are quite similar in appearance yet still fundamentally different. You see, your position, that it is a verifiable fact that there are no gods or a god, places the burden of proof upon you. Ultimately your position is untenable, as the statement "There is no God" is a null hypothesis exactly like the statement "There is a God." Neither can be proven or disproven, because both deal with entities that are outside the realm of logic.

The same argument can be used against those who claim that somehow God is within the realm of science and his existance can be scientifically verified. These arguments abandon the concept of faith and in my view, cheapen the very religion they try to defend. By the same token, your view that somehow an idea that falls outside the realm of science can be made to fit within it and then defeated cheapens atheism.

Perhaps you are a christian you thinks he is an athiest.

And because I challenge religious dogma, I am a troll.
Sure thing. But forgive me if I spit on your double standard.

Well, your highness, please justify the myriad historical excesses of the followers of this god, performed in his name,
and then you can get high and mighty with your accusations, sir.

It's stuffed shirts who forget the past who make (somewhat) disdainful of the whole religionist arrogance.

It disgusts me actually.

I'm not defending religion here. I'm arguing against your treatment of a null hypothesis.

 

[Speedo]

Show me that the wind exists. You can't. You can show how the wind effects things, but you can't show me the wind itself. However, the wind still exists.

You seem to be wanting God to knock on your door and shake your hand. We all know that that isn't going to happen. I can, however, tell you of things and people that God has affected, but you will make excuses about it because you don't *want* to believe that they're done by God.

 

[CurtSibling]

The wind is a real elemental force, made up of gasses.

Your allegory is flawed.

 

[CurtSibling]

@Kilroy:

I think Eek can fight his own battles.

 

[Speedo]

Air is made up of gasses. Wind moves those gasses. Wind is not a gas.

My point is that you won't believe anything we can show or tell you, because you don't want to believe.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Speedo
My point is that you won't believe anything we can show or tell you, because you don't want to believe.

Seeing is believing.

And no-one has even came close to having any proof.
You talk like I have closed my eyes to something real and tangible.

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by CurtSibling
@Kilroy:

I think Eek can fight his own battles.

I am eek! I forgot my pass a while ago and remembered it when I got it from another forum (long story sry mods plz don't ban & feel free to delete that account if you like)

It doesn't matter who's making the arguments anyway.

 

[nivi]

Originally posted by Speedo
I can, however, tell you of things and people that God has affected,

Please do.

IMO god does not exist untill someone can proove that he does.

 

[newfangle]

Reality, the external world, exists independent of man’s consciousness, independent of any observer’s knowledge, beliefs, feelings, desires or fears. This means that A is A, that facts are facts, that things are what they are — and that the task of man’s consciousness is to perceive reality, not to create or invent it.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

How come this debate has once more reached the point it started? It's really starting to get boring, you know...

Note to all new comers to this thread... read through all the posts before posting yourself, so as not to repeat what has been said before...

 

[JoeM]

A little light relief:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguements,you don't QED."

"Oh dear, " says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by Mojotronica
Religion makes less sense to people when times are reasonably good and when their lives have not been touched with seemingly random calamity. I've personality been blessed enough to never have to deal with one of those gut-wrenching curveballs life can throw at you. I can honestly say that life has been very fair -- generous even -- to me.

For which, I am glad . I am curious though - I always thought religion would appear to make less sense when times are bad, as, confronted with the reality of the world around them, people might start to question the idea of a 'cosmic justice'. But maybe you are right and people get complacent in good times and, sadly, stop questioning.

Originally posted by Mojotronica

But I recognize that it may not always be so, and I've met people who have been touched by seemingly unfair negativity, and when I read stories about the concentration camps or whatever I find myself hoping very much that there is some kind of cosmic justice, for all our sakes.

And so do I...the one thing I might take issue with is what you posted before, implying we should try to be good so as to be rewarded in the afterlife. But you probably agree with me that being good in this life ought to be its own reward already.
Or rather, I should say that I think that leading a good life ought not to need any religious reasons/justifications - indeed, it is the only thing that makes sense for us humans as a race (borrowing liberally, though sadly probably inaccurately, from Albert Camus here ).
The problem with religion in such a case is that we might not be encouraged to do enough, or get discouraged if no reward for our good behaviour was immediately forthcoming. But that's more of a pragmatic problem than a spiritual one .

@JoeM:

thanks ! Have you seen the movie 'Dogma' ?

 

[WinstonJen]

From this thread

306 British soldiers shot at dawn during WW1 for alleged cowardice.

The human appendix - a useless organ - so much for an 'intelligent designer.'

Torquemada, instigator of the Spanish Inquisition, the most brutal of all the inquisitions.

Gotta love that Christian love:

A kind and just God would never allow for this kind of violence to be carried out in it's name.

It is a brutal and sickening display of what can happen when a fundamentalistic theocracy is allowed to have its way.

Nuclear weapons:

Another Jonestown...

Heaven's Gate...

Waco...

Massacre site in Rwanda, apparently they just left the bones and these dot the country

 

[Mark Young]

ahhhh. Torquemada looks a lot like Mel Brooks in the histroy of the world part 1.

Perhaps all wars should be done in song and dance?

 

[WinstonJen]

Originally posted by Sir Eric


Well God gave everyone a free will to use it however they like, some use it help others, some use it to hurt others.
God won't override your free will.
If he stepped in to stop the child molesterer then He would have to step in and stop EVERYONE from doing something wrong no matter how big or small it would be.

So, the molester's free will to molest is more important than the child's free will to NOT be molested. How loving.

 

[Mojotronica]

Originally posted by jack merchant


For which, I am glad . I am curious though - I always thought religion would appear to make less sense when times are bad, as, confronted with the reality of the world around them, people might start to question the idea of a 'cosmic justice'. But maybe you are right and people get complacent in good times and, sadly, stop questioning.

Naw -- check out the places where Fundamentalism is really gaining a foothold. Rich people are less religious than poor people.

That's not a knock on religion but it's only natural to embrace anti-materialist ideas when material is scarce, and materialist values when material is abundant. This is why the West has become so much less religious over the past century.

If Capitalism/European Socialism fails us economically, religion will gain a huge windfall...

 

[Esckey]

@WinstonJen

To prove that He isn't all full of love and forgivness, that He will hurt those that believe in Him and worship Him to get His point across to the masses that if you f*** with Him, He ain't gonna stand for it.


There are a great many things that you can't prove exisits even though it does.

And the appendix was once vital to mans survival if you believe in evolution.

 

[WinstonJen]

Originally posted by Esckey
@WinstonJen

To prove that He isn't all full of love and forgivness, that He will hurt those that believe in Him and worship Him to get His point across to the masses that if you f*** with Him, He ain't gonna stand for it.


There are a great many things that you can't prove exisits even though it does.

You mean like love, hate, desire, lust, good, evil, etc? Those are human constructs, and are subjective. They exist in the opinions of people.

If god is so almighty, why doesn't he act now, instead of later? Why does he predestine people for hell? Wouldn't it be more merciful to not create them at all?

 

[jack merchant]

Originally posted by Mojotronica

Naw -- check out the places where Fundamentalism is really gaining a foothold. Rich people are less religious than poor people.

You're probably right - it just doesn't seem to make sense to me when people do that OTOH, many religious organizations (and not just the Salvation Army, but IIRC Hamas too) engage in charitable work, so that might account for their gaining ground against secular authority.