Quebec's tiff with the viel

Che Guava

The Juicy Revolutionary
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Looks like the niqab debate has hit la belle province


Lift face veils or don't vote, Quebec tells Muslims

TROIS-RIVIÈRES, QUE., MONTREAL AND SAINT-EUSTACHE, QUE. -- With three days left in one of the most tightly contested elections in decades, Quebec's electoral officer yesterday reversed his decision to allow Muslim women to vote without having to lift their face veils to identify themselves.

Chief Electoral Officer Marcel Blanchet invoked emergency powers to change his mind on one of the controversial minority-rights issues that have roiled the campaign and led to death threats, public outrage and repeated criticism by Parti Québécois Leader André Boisclair.

Mr. Blanchet said his office had been inundated with calls and emails about his decision to allow women to wear the niqab when they voted. His staff was worried and he was assigned two bodyguards. He feared some angry voters would turn out "in the craziest disguises you can imagine" and disrupt Monday's election.

Mr. Blanchet said it was troubling that he had to reverse his position. "Personally, I would have preferred not to do it. But my concern is to ensure everything unfolds normally, and there won't be somebody crazy who will cause trouble on Monday."

The issue affects a small number of Muslim voters. However, it hit a raw nerve in a province that has been enmeshed for months in acrimonious talks over accommodating religious minorities.

As Quebec's three main political leaders entered the final weekend of campaigning, the latest Strategic Counsel poll for The Globe and Mail and CTV News shows that the three main parties remain in a dead heat, with the PQ getting 31 per cent support, the Liberals 30 per cent and the Action Démocratique du Québec 28 per cent.

Last night, Liberal Leader Jean Charest for the first time stressed the need for a majority government to protect Quebec's culture and identity and to defend itself in dealing with Ottawa.

"We have always given ourselves a majority government, we need to speak with a strong voice. We are the only French-speaking people in North America and we must be heard," Mr. Charest said while campaigning in Gaspé.

Resentment about minorities has played a part in the rising popularity of the conservative ADQ, whose leader, Mario Dumont, has spoken against such accommodations. At the same time, Mr. Boisclair, an openly gay urbanite, was put on the defensive.

"It seems our voice has been heard," Mr. Boisclair said yesterday after learning of Mr. Blanchet's decision.

The PQ Leader had spent the day hammering on the issue during a swing through small towns between Montreal and Quebec City, a fertile ground for the emerging ADQ.

He said his party would pass legislation to require that a woman show her face to prove her identity before getting their ballot.

"We won't negotiate on this. If we have to modify the Electoral Officer Act, we will modify it," he said to loud applause.

Mr. Boisclair, who is seen as someone who can't connect with small-town voters, received animated cheers each time he brought up the issue. Again and again, he said he stood for "plain common sense."

While campaigning in the Magdalen Islands, Liberal Leader Jean Charest supported the chief electoral officer's decision, saying it did not infringe on religious rights and remained an issue of proper identification of voters.

Shama Naz, a 30-year-old Montrealer who wears a niqab, said the issue has been blown out of proportion. She said Muslim women routinely remove their face veils for security matters. She has done so for her Medicare card photo, and each time she crosses the border to visit her father in New York State."It's common sense. Muslim women have no problem identifying themselves for security reasons," she said. "If [elections officials] had spoken to me they would have known I wouldn't mind identifying myself at the ballot box."
While she would prefer to do so to a female elections worker, she would do so for a man as well, said Ms. Naz, an economics graduate.

"People are usually scared of what they don't know," she said of the uproar and yesterday's change in the law. "A lack of information is driving regulations like this."

In Montreal, meanwhile, Mr. Blanchet's office was in the middle of a storm.

The LCN TV network reported that he had received death threats. Karine Lacoste, a spokeswoman for Mr. Blanchet, said he now has two bodyguards.

Mr. Boisclair denied he had stoked the outrage with his criticisms.

"It's the Chief Electoral Officer's decision that created this backlash," he said.

He boasted he was the only party leader to have stated clearly his opposition. "As soon as I heard about it, I thought the Chief Electoral Officer had gone too far."

Yesterday, Mr. Dumont ripped into Mr. Boisclair for his suddenly aggressive stand.

"In a pseudo-show this morning, he was changing law. It's really pitiful," he said.

Mr. Boisclair was nowhere to be seen on the matter of reasonable accommodation when it surfaced as an issue, he said. "He wasn't standing up for the identity of Quebeckers."
link

IMHO, some of the most appalling political showmanship I have seen in Canadian politics lately.

The current rules allow for someone to vote without showing thier face if they have 3 piece of ID or 2 peices of ID and someone to vouch for them. The muslims in question don't seem to mind showing thier faces anyhow. But SOMEHOW it becomes a contest of who's tougher on those 'intolerant muslims' and who's protecting the rights of those poor average quebecers.

Just. Plain. Idiotic.
 
Frankly, I'm generally FOR tolerance, but I was planning to go vote in a Darth Vader outfit to protest this imbecility.

We've had plenty of problems with vote cheating (due to people offering false testimony, etc) in past years. We've had more than one occasion where the media demonstrated it was rather easy to do it.

Allowing people to vote veiled, masked, or with their face otherwise hidden, as long as they have three cards or a witness, doesn't help the problem one tiff.

This was the right decision.
 
Protest what? As far as I have heard, no-one in the muslim community had any kind of problem with showing thier faces until the Lib's and the PQ felt that they had to out-nationalist the ADQ. The whole things makes me sick.
 
Protest the fact that people - ALL people, because allowing only Muslims to vote with their face covered would have been discrimination per Québec laws - were being allowed to vote with their face covered.

It's NOT About the Muslims, not even the least bit. If they want to wear a veil in their everyday life, power to them. If they want to wear it at school, that's up to them. But NO ONE, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise should be allowed to vote if they refuse to properly identify themselves - and that includes showing your face.

Anything else is just a wide open door to electoral cheating. As has been demonstrated time and time again by the media.
 
I dont see the point of making them not wear face viels in the voting booths.

Its not like you can hide a weapon on your face.
 
Xanikk, it's not *in the voting booth*.

BEFORE you vote, you have to identify yourself to electoral officials. Generally this involve presenting some form of (official, IIRC) document with your picture on it (driver license, healthcare card), and showing your face. They then check the electoral list, and mark you as having voted (if you're on the list).

THIS is where they are required to remove their veil.

(There are ways around the whole thing if you don't have an official document with your picture, or if you're not on the list - you need people to testify in your favor. The media have shown time and time again that all those backup provision are particularly easy to overcome).
 
Protest the fact that people - ALL people, because allowing only Muslims to vote with their face covered would have been discrimination per Québec laws - were being allowed to vote with their face covered.

It's NOT About the Muslims, not even the least bit. If they want to wear a veil in their everyday life, power to them. If they want to wear it at school, that's up to them. But NO ONE, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise should be allowed to vote if they refuse to properly identify themselves - and that includes showing your face.

Allowing people to vote veiled, masked, or with their face otherwise covered, just open the doors to electoral cheating.


I just think its a pretty meaningless issue to get ruffled up over. No-one seems to actually disagree, and it acheives nothing besides possibly burning bridges with the muslim community.

What I would like to know is how many quebec poll stations are wheelchair-accessible, or any other number of real barriers to voting rather than wearing a veil....
 
THIS is where they are required to remove their veil.

Where they have to remove thier veil NOW. Before that, if someone wanted to conceal thier face, they just had to bring extra identification or someone to vouch for them, no fuss, no muss.
 
Don't think I've ever seen a wheelchair-inaccessible poll stations. Most of them are in elementary schools or other public building (which IIRC must be wheelchair-accessible by law to begin with), somewhere on the ground floor, so...

And you seem to be laboring under a misunderstanding of the situation.

-ORIGINALLY, no one knew that you could actually vote without having to remove your veil to identify yourself. People just assumed the common sense interpretation - you identify yourself, you lift your veil, and everyone, Muslims included, lived happy with it
-THEN, on thursday (IIRC) the electoral officier ANNOUNCED that his interpretation of the law was that you did not have to remove your veil to identify yourself.
-THEN, mostly every Québecer of every stripe began protesting that interpretation.
-THEN, the political parties - all of them - joined in denouncing the whole thing.
-FINALLY the electoral officier reversed his decision.

As far as most Québecers are concerned, this is NOT a case of "Let's change our law that has worked for decades".
It's a case of "Let's NOT allow a new interpretation of our law to screw up the way things have been for decades."
 
Oda Nobunaga is right once again!

This has been a mistake by the DGE from the start. The Muslim woman in the article and the ones who were interviewed on tv all agreed that it was not an issue before the DGE made it one. In fact, they're more upset at him than at the politcians who were echoing the general feeling of the population.
 
IMHO, some of the most appalling political showmanship I have seen in Canadian politics lately.

There's some very serious competition for that title.

That said, it sounds to me like this debate is an answer to a question nobody asked.
 
Would it only be captain flip-flopper aka Mario Dumont.

"I'm against independance! No! I'm for! No, wait, I'm for autonomy! No, wait..."

(Ok, so I'm hardly in any position to criticize him over evolving opinion in matters of Québec politics)
 
Pretty much every politican at every level.

Politics never was a gentleman's sport, but the depths it has reached in the last few years in this country have shattered pretty much every record ever set for grandstanding and fluff.
 
Indeed. Trash can politics, aka politics based on character assassination rather than actual ideas.

It's disgusting.
 
The threats received (the actual threats, not the "Gonna vote in a Darth Vader outfit" stuff), decidedly. There IS such a thing as too much.

However, both were pretty damn bad.
 
Yeah, the threats are despicable. What are you protesting? "I am PISSED that I have the right to show ID in order to cover my face! I'm gonna hurt someone, argh!"

The Darth Vader suit would've made a good point though!
 
I don't know if that's more simple, actually. It would then require a specific setup arrangement, merely for Islamic women. We do not want to arrange society around their conventions.

It's much easier to allow me to vote wearing my Darth Vader costume! Freedom for everyone!
 
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