HotDog Fish
Leftist Loyalist
They think they have a good deal but they're practically slaves, just like Willy Wonkas Oompa Loompas
Question for Europeans
- Thread starter floppa21
- Start date
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
The Oompa Loompas weren't slaves, they ran that factory. They were communist and were running it through a Soviet. Willy Wonkas was just the figurehead.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 29,455
The whole premise of this thread is defunct and silly.
How can millions of diverse people in Europe hate millions of diverse people in the United States?
Such thinking is unrealistic...
As a proud European, I am still to meet an American I didn't like.
You get good and bad people all over the world.
Widely painting a whole country with the same brush is immature and dangerous...
Everyone is different...
How can millions of diverse people in Europe hate millions of diverse people in the United States?
Such thinking is unrealistic...
As a proud European, I am still to meet an American I didn't like.
You get good and bad people all over the world.
Widely painting a whole country with the same brush is immature and dangerous...
Everyone is different...
Remorseless
Relentless
Floppa my fellow American:
The ones who hate us do so because they want to, pure and simple. We aren't perfect, we make mistakes. And we're the Big Boys on the Block now, instead of, hum, who did it used to be, oh yeah -- THE EUROPEANS.
There are two of my uncles and a grandfather buried in France from World War II, my other grandfather died from mustard gas poisioning he suffered in World War I twenty years after the fact, I spent the Berlin Wall and Cuban Missile crises in W. Germany with my dad, the Air Force sergeant.
Where in the F*** are the graves of the English, French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Swedes and Czechs in MY COUNTRY???
Fortunately, they don't have to like us. They just have to accept our money, our goods, our services and ultimately our lives the next time they decide to start another world war.
Sorry about the bitterness. The vast majority of Europeans I have met are wonderful, intelligent people, who may be a bit condescending about America, but I also got the feeling they're rather proud of all their expatriate Europeans who made America was it is today.
The ones who hate us do so because they want to, pure and simple. We aren't perfect, we make mistakes. And we're the Big Boys on the Block now, instead of, hum, who did it used to be, oh yeah -- THE EUROPEANS.
There are two of my uncles and a grandfather buried in France from World War II, my other grandfather died from mustard gas poisioning he suffered in World War I twenty years after the fact, I spent the Berlin Wall and Cuban Missile crises in W. Germany with my dad, the Air Force sergeant.
Where in the F*** are the graves of the English, French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Swedes and Czechs in MY COUNTRY???
Fortunately, they don't have to like us. They just have to accept our money, our goods, our services and ultimately our lives the next time they decide to start another world war.
Sorry about the bitterness. The vast majority of Europeans I have met are wonderful, intelligent people, who may be a bit condescending about America, but I also got the feeling they're rather proud of all their expatriate Europeans who made America was it is today.
HotDog Fish
Leftist Loyalist
Yah, and they where funneling money to the Viet Cong, actually the chocolate thing was a front, they where making soviet torpedos and rockets and shipping to Cuba, disguising them as Lactose free Caffeine Enriched Super-Sugar Taffy Boomers (Did you know the reason the movie wasn't called Charlie and the Chocolate factory? Well the movie was made during the Vietnam war and using the term 'Charlie', well it would give children the wrong idea)
Remorseless wrote:
Where in the F*** are the graves of the English, French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Swedes and Czechs in MY COUNTRY???
There are quite a few, actually. Speaking of Poles, for instance, Poland was being destroyed by Russia, Prussia and Austria between 1772-1795 so many Poles - especially nobles with military experience - traveled to the American colonies and fought in the American Revolution. The two most famous, Tadeusz Kosciuszko (who founded the fort at West Point) and Kazimierz Pulaski (who created the first American cavalry division and was killed in the siege of Savannah) are only the tip of the iceberg. (If you go to Krakow today you can see Kosciuszko's grave with American military honors.) You may also recall that Benjamin Franklin had to go to extraordinary lengths to defeat a bill in the Pennsylvanian legislature that would have made German the official language of Pennsylvania - since away from Philadelphia, the countryside was overwhelmingly peopled with German immigrants. In the Revolution, several German units were formed and Washington is known to have doubted their loyalty until they proved themselves against the Hessian mercenaries at Trenton and Princeton in 1777.
Also, in the mid-19th century after the failure of the 1848 revolutions in Europe (and the tumult caused by the Italian wars) many poorer Europeans from southern and Eastern Europe emigrated to the United States - and consequently fought in the Civil War. Both armies' ranks were filled with immigrant soldiers, though the industrial North benefitted more than the South. As a historian I recall going through letters written by Hungarian and Polish immigrants in Texas writing home about their participation in the Indian wars of the 1870s.
In short, America is indeed littered with the graves of foreign citizens who came and fought in her wars.
Where in the F*** are the graves of the English, French, German, Spanish, Finnish, Polish, Italian, Dutch, Swedes and Czechs in MY COUNTRY???
There are quite a few, actually. Speaking of Poles, for instance, Poland was being destroyed by Russia, Prussia and Austria between 1772-1795 so many Poles - especially nobles with military experience - traveled to the American colonies and fought in the American Revolution. The two most famous, Tadeusz Kosciuszko (who founded the fort at West Point) and Kazimierz Pulaski (who created the first American cavalry division and was killed in the siege of Savannah) are only the tip of the iceberg. (If you go to Krakow today you can see Kosciuszko's grave with American military honors.) You may also recall that Benjamin Franklin had to go to extraordinary lengths to defeat a bill in the Pennsylvanian legislature that would have made German the official language of Pennsylvania - since away from Philadelphia, the countryside was overwhelmingly peopled with German immigrants. In the Revolution, several German units were formed and Washington is known to have doubted their loyalty until they proved themselves against the Hessian mercenaries at Trenton and Princeton in 1777.
Also, in the mid-19th century after the failure of the 1848 revolutions in Europe (and the tumult caused by the Italian wars) many poorer Europeans from southern and Eastern Europe emigrated to the United States - and consequently fought in the Civil War. Both armies' ranks were filled with immigrant soldiers, though the industrial North benefitted more than the South. As a historian I recall going through letters written by Hungarian and Polish immigrants in Texas writing home about their participation in the Indian wars of the 1870s.
In short, America is indeed littered with the graves of foreign citizens who came and fought in her wars.
Remorseless
Relentless
Vrylakas, my friend, they weren't sent here by their governments -- they were fleeing their countries and governments. Unlike my relatives who fought and died in Europe, they stayed, became citizens. What I was trying to point out is the fact the United States sent troops into Europe twice in the last century to help defend its Old World allies. Can't seem to recall a single instance of them ever sending troops to help us -- outside, of course, the royalist French troops sent to aid the fledgling republic in its War of Independence.
Heck my father's ancestors came here because they were being starved to death in Ireland by the English. My mother's ancestors came here because they were persecuted for their religion in France. We were and are a place of refuge for people around the world.
So, while I respect your information and your opinion, I again, sir, ask "Where the F*** are the graves of the Europeans who have helped my country?" The answer, of course, is nowhere.
Heck my father's ancestors came here because they were being starved to death in Ireland by the English. My mother's ancestors came here because they were persecuted for their religion in France. We were and are a place of refuge for people around the world.
So, while I respect your information and your opinion, I again, sir, ask "Where the F*** are the graves of the Europeans who have helped my country?" The answer, of course, is nowhere.
EdwardTking
Deity
yaroslav
Emperor
Dear Remorseless: First of all, I want to say a very big 'Thank you' to America for save us of nazis and Red Rusia. But, I want to point you that my governement (Spain) helps America while you were figthing for freedom (France also did that).
Here are some links (I pick them randomly on Google)
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/vital2.htm
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/revolt_0.htm
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/cuba.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6753/
Switch625
I don't care.
This matters why? We've never been in danger of being conquered or even seriously threatened ever since the end of the War of 1812. We haven't needed that sort of help. What's the point here?
Pillager
League of Empire Loyalist
I hate anti-US trolling, but I ain't too keen on anti-European trolling either.
MrPresident
Anglo-Saxon Liberal
This is a complete disgrace. Can you imagine someone saying anything like about America? Even the most anti-US would never say this.
You're right, you are so right. It all makes perfect sense now.
donderwolkje
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2002
- Messages
- 11
I saw a movie last night that explained a lot. Maybe not so much about hating americans. But it does explain why the world should be scared with a US-government that is so powerfull.
Bowling for colombine.
"Why aren't you revolting in the way that Ghandi did?"
"Ghandi? I'm not familiar with that person"
scary stuff
Bowling for colombine.
"Why aren't you revolting in the way that Ghandi did?"
"Ghandi? I'm not familiar with that person"
scary stuff
Panda
Metal head
Finnish? Why on earth?
Nooo, please don't resurrect this thread - we've speaken enough!
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
1st, sorry for the size of the post. Now...
Floppa, you're wrong: we don't hate US (not americans: US is not America > that is one of the signs of your pretensionism
).
TheDuckOfFlanders: Yes, hate is a Big word. We dislike some US actions that affect us, directly or indirectly. We are relativelly good friends and have plenty of common interests. We can say we are in the same side in many, many issues (normally when that's not against US biggest lobbies like the gun's one, the pollutor or that new food DNA-mixed...).
Of course US over-reacts in foreign policy, acting tipically like: shoot 1st, shoot after, shoot again and look for reasons in the end: a "little" impulsive I might say... That's the main problem of US foreign affairs, that grants you many REAL enemies, like XIX's Mexico, Cuba, Arabs,... We will not harm you, of course, but they are just hopping an open opportunity!
They are honnest. Yeah: Pinnochet, Suharto, Saddam, Bin Laden,... all of them had US support. Not a big judge to tell us who are the honest and devil people, I think... They many times kill just to obtain cheaper oil, what surelly ends in a very bad international opinion about them!
Juize, you're correct, but why to distinguish North and South
G-man: being in a war country and having US support, you must be very thanked to them. This, you must understand, changes your vision a little.
As for that arab guy: they created it. If they hadn't give him training and weapons, we would be a fat prince in Saudi Arabia palace or something! They even help him now, as they say, implicitelly: "Who don't like the west, join Bin Laden's force!" Bin Laden is what it is because of their help.
EU position is that he is today a dangerous person that should be found and... accidentally killed. EU has it SS on it, US spent millions on mobilazing all the army. Judge yourself.
Strik: good point. Kyoto agreement really made me
They don't know what sustainable development is! Irresponsibles!!!
TheDuckOfFlanders: They only know the sword way, not the pen one!
And they are not very productive, really. Specially when the goal is to change the leader...
Look at Iraq and you were right: they won the war, but they fail to take Saddam and they are hated there nowadays. They have a big and mass-effective army, but a very bad knowledge of how to change leaderships and how to change people's view. Their sword art fails in delicate moves and the pen... doesn't exist!
Dogberry_Old: a system when the 2 candidates in the elections are Bush Jr. and Al Gore doesn't seem very productive to me. Beseides, I think that in US what elects Prez are not votes: it is the media and it's opinion makers and pools.
Graeme the mad: Arrogance is a key word here. They think they are the best and... I hate Spanish for that and when I see an US doing that... it is pretty anoying I can assure you
Glorify their own is important too: in movies, TV series and other stuff, the US guy is never shot, no matter how improvable that is... The extreme example is Rambo, but it isn't needed to go that far...
This is specially strange because they never won a very glorious fight: they lost always to Canadians, they only get independence in the middle of a fight between France and England, they lost any equal wars I can remember of and they even lost in Vietnam and in Somalia. They even had difficulties beating their natives (a comparation with Cortez is in at least embarassing here...) They only won when they kill from a distance AND with other natives supporting their efforts (Afganistan) or at least with others support (WW1, WW2, Korea,...)
Compared to Israel, Germany or Japan, they are... well, I don't want to be banned... but just let say that US would be a "little" ashamed of their pass and recent actions IF they knew history better. (please note that those countries NEVER in their history lost an fair fight!)
So their proud is clarly unjustified.
And now that congress quote, "In God we trust", I've never understand very well the meaning. Should God help US because they are so faithfull to it's command? Or is it because you don't trust your leaders? Either way, I don't know exactly why would He care very much: you not only not follow the Pope (acceptable), but you also do many, many, many things exactly the way He most dislike. God Bless the Vatican!
stormerne: you here. How is it CIV1?
Well, noone till your post have said that hates US.
"Americans are seen as brash, arrogant, shallow, naive and they have more money than sense." > Exactly.
I heard once a story, I assume it's a joke, about an US citizen that bought the Eiffel tower from a French vigarist, and even pay gloves under table! Of course that it is not for sale, so the US citizen was very pi..ed off, but then the french one disapeared without a trace and it left the other just with more air in the wallet. I assume it is just a story, but it serves to ilustrate the feeling.
"But in general Americans are not hated anymore than anyone else." > They are not hated, at least not in EU. They are just known as I quote you before.
floppa, one thing is when one country's media says something. Another completelly different is when all the non-US media say the same...
Leo, good point that of the "out-going" fellows, but you must see that TV says to us that you are like in Baywatch, Jerry Springer, Texas Ranger, JAG, Bull, Hill Street, ... or all that amazing videos you send to shows (I like the pollice chases best) or the movies. And you know that can't be good. TV and Cinema give us a veeeeeeery bad idea of how morron (I apologise, I know you are not, but just see the little box and the wide screen...) the typical US citizen is... You should export other kind of series!
Good intentions: of course.
Not enough time to understand the situation: obviously. As I said, you generally shoot 1st, shoot after, shoot again and look for reasons in the end...
Getting better: just hope to see. Not with Bush, I'm affraid.
They do reflect public's view: pools is what counts for them...
It's not as diverse as you think. Come to EU, or even just to Portugal to see the differences. You clearly lack basis of comparison to know what you are saying here...
It's the 2 weigth policy that most annoys people!
China is not the only one emerging superpower
Best place to live. Come here, taste our food, see our landscape, try our weather, speak with our people and you'll never leave Portugal again. Just arrange a job in a web-company and come here to live like a king (with an US salary and Portuguese prices that wouldn't be difficult: is cost 100$/day to live in a Palace with meals, horse-riding, connoing, walking through green forests, visiting roman monuments, having 2 emplyees to serve you and to live in a place with low traffic zone. Golf included too. It's in a Count house in my peacefull hometown. Paradise on Earth, almost...). Another time I think that your affirmation just makes sense because you don't know all the possibilities
TheDuckOfFlanders: Americans here seem to have more open minds and to pay more attention to certain things. It's not the 1st one that makes me think that there is plenty of hope to be had!
Damien:Non-democratic, yes. It's a plutocracy.
I wouldn't call it Bureaucratic...
"too proud": of course. Explained above in that armed history and films comments.
Yeah, they national pride is just too much. Just a prove of it here . They don't follow others even if they are wrong... Some people can not just admit a mistake or accept valid advices...
That 1/3 generally don't appear and they seem to don't care of them. They social services are sooooooo bad. Specially the health care system. It just su**s.
G-Man: wake up and look at statistics about 3rd world supporters!
Have I also to speak about the rest of the Americas or the answer is just about US. Maybe I get this wrong and I must start talking about Brazil, as I know it quite well...
Sory for just answer the 1st page, but I think you get the idea...
Floppa, you're wrong: we don't hate US (not americans: US is not America > that is one of the signs of your pretensionism
).TheDuckOfFlanders: Yes, hate is a Big word. We dislike some US actions that affect us, directly or indirectly. We are relativelly good friends and have plenty of common interests. We can say we are in the same side in many, many issues (normally when that's not against US biggest lobbies like the gun's one, the pollutor or that new food DNA-mixed...).
Of course US over-reacts in foreign policy, acting tipically like: shoot 1st, shoot after, shoot again and look for reasons in the end: a "little" impulsive I might say... That's the main problem of US foreign affairs, that grants you many REAL enemies, like XIX's Mexico, Cuba, Arabs,... We will not harm you, of course, but they are just hopping an open opportunity!
They are honnest. Yeah: Pinnochet, Suharto, Saddam, Bin Laden,... all of them had US support. Not a big judge to tell us who are the honest and devil people, I think... They many times kill just to obtain cheaper oil, what surelly ends in a very bad international opinion about them!
Juize, you're correct, but why to distinguish North and South
G-man: being in a war country and having US support, you must be very thanked to them. This, you must understand, changes your vision a little.
As for that arab guy: they created it. If they hadn't give him training and weapons, we would be a fat prince in Saudi Arabia palace or something! They even help him now, as they say, implicitelly: "Who don't like the west, join Bin Laden's force!" Bin Laden is what it is because of their help.
EU position is that he is today a dangerous person that should be found and... accidentally killed. EU has it SS on it, US spent millions on mobilazing all the army. Judge yourself.
Strik: good point. Kyoto agreement really made me
They don't know what sustainable development is! Irresponsibles!!!TheDuckOfFlanders: They only know the sword way, not the pen one!
And they are not very productive, really. Specially when the goal is to change the leader...
Look at Iraq and you were right: they won the war, but they fail to take Saddam and they are hated there nowadays. They have a big and mass-effective army, but a very bad knowledge of how to change leaderships and how to change people's view. Their sword art fails in delicate moves and the pen... doesn't exist!
Dogberry_Old: a system when the 2 candidates in the elections are Bush Jr. and Al Gore doesn't seem very productive to me. Beseides, I think that in US what elects Prez are not votes: it is the media and it's opinion makers and pools.
Graeme the mad: Arrogance is a key word here. They think they are the best and... I hate Spanish for that and when I see an US doing that... it is pretty anoying I can assure you
Glorify their own is important too: in movies, TV series and other stuff, the US guy is never shot, no matter how improvable that is... The extreme example is Rambo, but it isn't needed to go that far...
This is specially strange because they never won a very glorious fight: they lost always to Canadians, they only get independence in the middle of a fight between France and England, they lost any equal wars I can remember of and they even lost in Vietnam and in Somalia. They even had difficulties beating their natives (a comparation with Cortez is in at least embarassing here...) They only won when they kill from a distance AND with other natives supporting their efforts (Afganistan) or at least with others support (WW1, WW2, Korea,...)
Compared to Israel, Germany or Japan, they are... well, I don't want to be banned... but just let say that US would be a "little" ashamed of their pass and recent actions IF they knew history better. (please note that those countries NEVER in their history lost an fair fight!)
So their proud is clarly unjustified.
And now that congress quote, "In God we trust", I've never understand very well the meaning. Should God help US because they are so faithfull to it's command? Or is it because you don't trust your leaders? Either way, I don't know exactly why would He care very much: you not only not follow the Pope (acceptable), but you also do many, many, many things exactly the way He most dislike. God Bless the Vatican!
stormerne: you here. How is it CIV1?
Well, noone till your post have said that hates US.
"Americans are seen as brash, arrogant, shallow, naive and they have more money than sense." > Exactly.
I heard once a story, I assume it's a joke, about an US citizen that bought the Eiffel tower from a French vigarist, and even pay gloves under table! Of course that it is not for sale, so the US citizen was very pi..ed off, but then the french one disapeared without a trace and it left the other just with more air in the wallet. I assume it is just a story, but it serves to ilustrate the feeling.
"But in general Americans are not hated anymore than anyone else." > They are not hated, at least not in EU. They are just known as I quote you before.
floppa, one thing is when one country's media says something. Another completelly different is when all the non-US media say the same...
Leo, good point that of the "out-going" fellows, but you must see that TV says to us that you are like in Baywatch, Jerry Springer, Texas Ranger, JAG, Bull, Hill Street, ... or all that amazing videos you send to shows (I like the pollice chases best) or the movies. And you know that can't be good. TV and Cinema give us a veeeeeeery bad idea of how morron (I apologise, I know you are not, but just see the little box and the wide screen...) the typical US citizen is... You should export other kind of series!
Good intentions: of course.
Not enough time to understand the situation: obviously. As I said, you generally shoot 1st, shoot after, shoot again and look for reasons in the end...
Getting better: just hope to see. Not with Bush, I'm affraid.
They do reflect public's view: pools is what counts for them...
It's not as diverse as you think. Come to EU, or even just to Portugal to see the differences. You clearly lack basis of comparison to know what you are saying here...
It's the 2 weigth policy that most annoys people!
China is not the only one emerging superpower
Best place to live. Come here, taste our food, see our landscape, try our weather, speak with our people and you'll never leave Portugal again. Just arrange a job in a web-company and come here to live like a king (with an US salary and Portuguese prices that wouldn't be difficult: is cost 100$/day to live in a Palace with meals, horse-riding, connoing, walking through green forests, visiting roman monuments, having 2 emplyees to serve you and to live in a place with low traffic zone. Golf included too. It's in a Count house in my peacefull hometown. Paradise on Earth, almost...). Another time I think that your affirmation just makes sense because you don't know all the possibilities
TheDuckOfFlanders: Americans here seem to have more open minds and to pay more attention to certain things. It's not the 1st one that makes me think that there is plenty of hope to be had!
Damien:Non-democratic, yes. It's a plutocracy.
I wouldn't call it Bureaucratic...
"too proud": of course. Explained above in that armed history and films comments.
Yeah, they national pride is just too much. Just a prove of it here . They don't follow others even if they are wrong... Some people can not just admit a mistake or accept valid advices...
That 1/3 generally don't appear and they seem to don't care of them. They social services are sooooooo bad. Specially the health care system. It just su**s.
G-Man: wake up and look at statistics about 3rd world supporters!
Have I also to speak about the rest of the Americas or the answer is just about US. Maybe I get this wrong and I must start talking about Brazil, as I know it quite well...
Sory for just answer the 1st page, but I think you get the idea...
Wow, it seems you've read everything!! (A bit late 
)
)
Portuguese
Vassalising Spain
Originally posted by Rhye
Wow, it seems you've read everything!! (A bit late
I know
Sorry about that...
gugalpm
Veteran of psychic wars
You arrogant americans like to pose as the good guys...
Everybody knows that US entered in the world wars to gain spoils, not to save the europeans...
And for me, the jealously point is exactly the opposite. North-Americans are unpolite, arrogant, ignorant, don't give a damn about the world's situation. Most europeans are very polite, and know most news and information from all around the world.
And what makes me very sad is to see that the great Europe has turned into US puppy, doing everything it wants.
Everybody knows that US entered in the world wars to gain spoils, not to save the europeans...
And for me, the jealously point is exactly the opposite. North-Americans are unpolite, arrogant, ignorant, don't give a damn about the world's situation. Most europeans are very polite, and know most news and information from all around the world.
And what makes me very sad is to see that the great Europe has turned into US puppy, doing everything it wants.
