Question on heaven...

[.Shane.]

It may be a logical extension in your mind, but I don't believe that any church has supported such a view.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what....

 

[Perfection]

Actually, this was recently changed. The Vatican recently deemed that it is possible for a baby that would have been baptized, but died prematurely to the actual event, also has a chance to go to Heaven.

So, if the fetus wouldn't have been baptised if the mother didn't have an abortion the fetus still goes to hell, right?

And what about all the babies who died before the Vatican changed its mind?

 

[.Shane.]

So, if the fetus wouldn't have been baptised if the mother didn't have an abortion the fetus still goes to hell, right?

Oh, wow, don't they have female.. um... products, that would allow you to baptize the baby in utero? Or, what if the mother drank some kind of holy water, could that be assumed to make it to the amniotic sac?

How people don't see the ludicrousness of this is amazing.

 

[Perfection]

Oh, wow, don't they have female.. um... products, that would allow you to baptize the baby in utero? Or, what if the mother drank some kind of holy water, could that be assumed to make it to the amniotic sac?

Great idea! Then you could have an abortion without the guilt of sending the fetus to hell!

 

[RameNoodle]

And what about all the babies who died before the Vatican changed its mind?

This is where Kairos comes into play. In Heaven, this event never really occured, it simply was. The Vatican made the decision in Chronos, human time, but its effects are found throughout Kairos. I guess the best way to explain this would be a line. Chronos is a linear line, with a beginning and an end. Kairos is that exact same line, but put into one point, one single state of being, with every event in Chronos being present in that single point of Kairos.

 

[Urederra]

So... if sex is meant just for procreation purposes and there is not need of procreation in heaven, why do we need 72 virgins?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So... if sex is meant just for procreation purposes and there is not need of procreation in heaven, why do we need 72 virgins?

Well, obviously, how do you think they stay virgins?

 

[puglover]

No, they haven't been unbaptized, those who are unbaptized go to hell.

Only some Christians believe this. Do not be so quick to generalize.

 

[Perfection]

This is where Kairos comes into play. In Heaven, this event never really occured, it simply was. The Vatican made the decision in Chronos, human time, but its effects are found throughout Kairos. I guess the best way to explain this would be a line. Chronos is a linear line, with a beginning and an end. Kairos is that exact same line, but put into one point, one single state of being, with every event in Chronos being present in that single point of Kairos.

Well doesn't that shatter the validity of he Vatican as an authority on such matters?

How can one say that the Vatican is the authority on such matters when what they say changes?

Well, obviously, how do you think they stay virgins?

Anal only?

Only some Christians believe this. Do not be so quick to generalize.

I know Pug, but cold-hearted and unreasonble beliefs are easier to poke fun at.

 

[civ2]

As far as I know, the Jews have no form of redemption, only judgment. But I'm waiting to see Civ2's response to see what an actual Jew thinks.

As far as I know "repent - and be forgiven" and "repentance, charity and good deeds avert the strict judgement".
You seem to know too little about Jews.
Or you are under impression of the Middle Ages "theories".

 

[RameNoodle]

Well doesn't that shatter the validity of he Vatican as an authority on such matters?

How can one say that the Vatican is the authority on such matters when what they say changes?

Yes, I know this Kairos stuff is hard to understand. The Vatican remains the authority because what they say, ultimately doesn't matter. They make spiritual guidelines for those of the faith, not infallible decisions on who gets into Heaven. God does that, and it is then revealed to those of the clergy who then reveal it to us. Because, really, what the Vatican says 250 years from now applies to us in Kairos, even if it hadn't been revealed to us in the present time of Chronos.

Does the concept make sense to anyone, or should I just stop trying?

 

[puglover]

As far as I know "repent - and be forgiven" and "repentance, charity and good deeds avert the strict judgement".
You seem to know too little about Jews.
Or you are under impression of the Middle Ages "theories".

A question: How does God forgive you? I thought under your Covenant you have to sacrifice animals to redeem your sins. So now that the Temple is occupied by Muslims you can just be automatically forgiven? If so, why didn't God do that in the first place?

 

[Perfection]

Yes, I know this Kairos stuff is hard to understand.

I understand it just fine. I just find rather unusual and somewat inconsistant.

The Vatican remains the authority because what they say, ultimately doesn't matter. They make spiritual guidelines for those of the faith, not infallible decisions on who gets into Heaven.

But doesn't what they say effect the hearts and minds of people and can greatly influence weather or not they go to heaven?

God does that, and it is then revealed to those of the clergy who then reveal it to us. Because, really, what the Vatican says 250 years from now applies to us in Kairos, even if it hadn't been revealed to us in the present time of Chronos.

That seems rather odd for god to reveal something of great importance to our souls after many who it applied to have died. God seems to have a penchent for inconsitstant rules.

 

[civ2]

puglover
Frankly?
Your questions seem rather strange.
After the Temple(s) was destroyed the sacrifices were substituted with prayers.
But neither actual sacrifices nor "mechanical" prayers do anything - God is "All-Knowing" and those things were and are just an outward side of a SINCERE thought of repentance.
Why didn't God do WHAT???
(Who are you calling God??? )

 

[puglover]

puglover
Frankly?
Your questions seem rather strange.
After the Temple(s) was destroyed the sacrifices were substituted with prayers.
But neither actual sacrifices nor "mechanical" prayers do anything - God is "All-Knowing" and those things were and are just an outward side of a SINCERE thought of repentance.
Why didn't God do WHAT???
(Who are you calling God??? )

So your God now accepts "sincere thoughts"? Why didn't he do that in the first place?

 

[civ2]

puglover
Once again - what is your question about???
How come you "know" what God does or not?
Arrogant I'd say.

 

[puglover]

puglover
Once again - what is your question about???
How come you "know" what God does or not?
Arrogant I'd say.

Umm... I don't know what your God does. That's why I ask. You are simply dodging the question.

My simple question is this: Why didn't your God just forgive and forget in the first place if he had the power to do so all along?

 

[Mathilda]

6. In some cases the souls needs to reincarnate once again to rectify what it missed.

I didn't know that reincarnation was part of the Jewish doctrine.
Live and learn.

 

[Mathilda]

God could see if that child would have accepted God if she had been allowed to live, since he sees beyond time. Thus, even though the child was aborted, the judgment would still be ruled, for or against the child, depending on where she would have put her faith.

So there really is no free will. Just puppets on a string...

 

[puglover]

So there really is no free will. Just puppets on a string...

I don't see the connection you're trying to make. We'd have free will, but God sees what we will decide and takes preemptive measures for the greater good of us all.