Question regarding the Crusades

[Tank_Guy#3]

I doubt there are many hard facts related to this, but I was wondering what were the promises made by the Church as a reward for partaking in the Crusades?

I would imagine there was some promise of salvation and entrance to heaven, but would that have applied to all the proceeding generations of the Crusaders family?

 

[GinandTonic]

Indulgence for all sins. Excommunication for anyone who takes advantage of your absence.

 

[Verbose]

Might be something here:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook1k.html#The First Crusade

Maybe in Pope Urban II's 1095 speech? (In many versions apparently.)

 

[Lord Baal]

All the brown people you could rape.

 

[Ajidica]

And murder, and whose houses you could pillage and burn.

 

[innonimatu]

And it only applied to participants.

 

[Dachs]

Depends on the Crusade.

 

[vogtmurr]

Most certainly. The pope rarely if ever sanctioned mass atrocities, except maybe the Albigensians and Cathars.

 

[LightSpectra]

Most certainly. The pope rarely if ever sanctioned mass atrocities, except maybe the Albigensians and Cathars.

Certainly not. If anybody benefits from the death of the Albigensians, it's the Capetians for restoring authority in southern France. The Papacy only wanted peaceful conversion, which is why it sanctioned the Franciscans and Dominicans.

 

[Ajidica]

Didn't the quote "Kill them all. God will know his own" originate from a Catholic priest during the Albigensian Crusade?

 

[Masada]

Didn't the quote "Kill them all. God will know his own" originate from a Catholic priest during the Albigensian Crusade?

Yeah, Arnaud Amalric said that at the siege of Béziers just before it was sacked and the population (including Catholics) were put to the sword.

 

[vogtmurr]

Certainly not. If anybody benefits from the death of the Albigensians, it's the Capetians for restoring authority in southern France. The Papacy only wanted peaceful conversion, which is why it sanctioned the Franciscans and Dominicans.

ok then were in agreement with the part I was certain about, the albigensians i was not

 

[Verbose]

Yeah, Arnaud Amalric said that at the siege of Béziers just before it was sacked and the population (including Catholics) were put to the sword.

Well, according to the reporting of the chronicler Caesar of Heisterbach. I don't think anyone knows whether he actually said that. However, it might be one of these cases where, given what kind of a man he was, his contemporaries found it entirely credible.

 

[Plotinus]

Verbose is correct: the "kill them all" quote is known only from Caesarius of Heisterbach and is pretty dubious. Caesarius was quite good at distinguishing between stories whose provenance he knew and those he was uncertain about. He gives no source for this story and it is otherwise unknown. So it should be regarded as apocryphal. Even if it was really said, no way did it reflect official church policy.

I doubt there are many hard facts related to this, but I was wondering what were the promises made by the Church as a reward for partaking in the Crusades?

I would imagine there was some promise of salvation and entrance to heaven, but would that have applied to all the proceeding generations of the Crusaders family?

The plenary indulgence which was granted to Crusaders was not a promise of salvation and entrance to heaven. Under Catholic doctrine, salvation and entrance to heaven could be achieved only through Christ. Indulgences, plenary or otherwise, were not guarantees of salvation. What they did was let you off time in purgatory prior to your salvation. In other words, they didn't secure forgiveness for your sins; they let you off (some of) the punishment you were due for the sins that God had already forgiven you for. (This was because they thought that even though God had forgiven you your sins, you still had a bit of purging due to you.) If you weren't going to be saved anyway, you wouldn't be going to purgatory in the first place, and an indulgence wouldn't do you much good.

 

[NBAfan]

The plenary indulgence which was granted to Crusaders was not a promise of salvation and entrance to heaven. Under Catholic doctrine, salvation and entrance to heaven could be achieved only through Christ. Indulgences, plenary or otherwise, were not guarantees of salvation. What they did was let you off time in purgatory prior to your salvation. In other words, they didn't secure forgiveness for your sins; they let you off (some of) the punishment you were due for the sins that God had already forgiven you for. (This was because they thought that even though God had forgiven you your sins, you still had a bit of purging due to you.) If you weren't going to be saved anyway, you wouldn't be going to purgatory in the first place, and an indulgence wouldn't do you much good.

In other words, indulgences just remit temporal punishment. They do not forgive sins.

 

[Ataxerxes]

In other words, indulgences just remit temporal punishment. They do not forgive sins.

Basically, yes, that was the idea. I suspect a lot of the participants who listened were less than clear about the details and probably thought of it as a get into heaven free card, even though that wasn't what was meant. Literacy at that time was at an extremely low level.

 

[GinandTonic]

I seem to recall there was a degree of inflation for the latter crusades - more god-credit and more papal elbows or somesuch?

 

[Lord Baal]

Didn't the quote "Kill them all. God will know his own" originate from a Catholic priest during the Albigensian Crusade?

Why did I just flash to an episode of The Simpsons upon hearing that quote? "Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

 

[vogtmurr]

I read somewhere that to make up for his somewhat mixed record, Richard I's chivalry and past service in the third crusade shortened his sentence in purgatory to 33 years.

 

[Yui108]

It varied, with the spiritual rewards generally becoming greater with each passing crusade. IIRC in the First Crusade it would offset some previous sins, but by the the 13th century you basically got a guaranteed beeline to heaven for participating in one.