Questions About Adam and Eve

[Valka D'Ur]

It was there so that the monkeys and all the other non-human animals in the garden of eden could understand the difference between good and evil. That's why lions didn't eat goats and everyone lived in peace.

So what did the carnivores eat if they weren't allowed to eat meat?

 

[Borachio]

I didn't say God has to explain anything to us. I'm not asking him to. I'm asking you, Mr Hero, to explain why God said so.

And since the whole episode, I repeat, is trivially obvious to you, why have you ducked the question?

The carnivores ate muesli and rice cakes, Mrs D'Ur. You know this already, I'm sure.

 

[timtofly]

So what did the carnivores eat if they weren't allowed to eat meat?

Is being a carnivore a need, or does it just happen? It would seem that no carnivore needs to be one to survive, they just eat meat, because they can.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Uh-huh...

Try that with any normal lion and see how far you get.


EDIT:

Is being a carnivore a need, or does it just happen? It would seem that no carnivore needs to be one to survive, they just eat meat, because they can.

Did you skip your biology classes in school? Ever read anything about the dietary needs of animals?

A totally non-meat diet would kill some animals.

 

[timtofly]

Uh-huh...

Try that with any normal lion and see how far you get.

I would have trouble forcing a human, to change his habits, but I am sure there are ways to get protein into a lion without killing another animal. If everything is perfection, why would a carnivore need to eat meat? Are you sticking with the fact that it is impossible, or just something hard to do?

Edit: so one cannot evolve to be either independent of something or dependent on something?

 

[classical_hero]

So what did the carnivores eat if they weren't allowed to eat meat?

God permitted us to eat meat after the flood, but that doesn't mean some didn't do it before the flood. But before the fall every creature was a herbivore.
http://kimsheridan.com/compassion_circle/stories-articles/little-tyke-the-true-story-of-a-vegetarian-lion/
"Once upon a time, in 20th century America, there lived a lion who refused to be violent. Those who cared for her tried to train her to behave in a way they thought was dictated by nature—but she refused. Instead, she taught her keepers that man’s idea of what constitutes “natural” animal behavior, is not necessarily what God created the animals to be."
When Christ comes again every creature will be back to their pre-fall state and all animals will only eat non meat diets.

I didn't say God has to explain anything to us. I'm not asking him to. I'm asking you, Mr Hero, to explain why God said so.

And since the whole episode, I repeat, is trivially obvious to you, why have you ducked the question?

The carnivores ate muesli and rice cakes, Mrs D'Ur. You know this already, I'm sure.

No, you are asking God to explain why, since he never told me why he said that. You have to ask him why he did it, since I am not privy to that information you are asking, I am not the creator, I am just a creation of his.

 

[Borachio]

No. I think meat is pretty essential to lions at the moment.

Domestic cats can live for a time on grain. In fact a starving cat will eat just about anything remotely edible. But I don't think it's good for them.

Dogs are a bit more omnivorous.

No, you are asking God to explain why, since he never told me why he said that. You have to ask him why he did it, since I am not privy to that information you are asking, I am not the creator, I am just a creation of his.

This simply isn't true. I am asking you, and I'm not asking God. It's right there in that post of mine you quoted.

Are you just admitting you don't know? If so, why don't you simply say "I don't know"?

And if you don't know the answer to such a relatively simple question, what else don't you know?

I actually think it a very healthy thing to admit: that you don't know something. But that's not how you come across in general.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Domestic cats can live for a time on grain. In fact a starving cat will eat just about anything remotely edible. But I don't think it's good for them.

I've had cats who loved veggies - my first cat insisted on sharing my peas and broccoli. But she was a carnivore; she hunted (and ate) birds, and we fed her meat-based cat food.

I actually think it a very healthy thing to admit: that you don't know something. But that's not how you come across in general.

"I don't know" is a valid answer when you really don't know the answer. It's honest, and I respect an honest "I don't know" a lot more than prideful hemming and hawing and deflecting in an attempt to not admit to not knowing.

 

[Rashiminos]

I guess, technically, it was a psychotropic fruit, eh?
Is it a viable hypothesis that the Tree of Life would also be psychotropic?

Well, since it's your technicality, why don't you tell me?

But wait, why was the Tree of Knowledge (I'd personally go with fly agaric, but that's just a guess, of course, and it probably wasn't - wrong part of the globe for one thing) in the Garden of Eden in the first place, eh?

(It could have been Datura or the thorn apple, no? Not just an ordinary apple tree, now was it? Be reasonable. Apple trees have to be grafted on to root stock, and that didn't come in till the Romans.)

Or we could stop trying to interpret it literally and stop looking for some specific fruit.
The "tree" was there because 'LORD God' and the serpent wanted it there.

They were commanded not to eat from the tree of knowledge on pain of death.

Kind of a spurious command.

Had they obedey God, they would have been allowed to eat of the fruit of the tree of life, but since they disobeyed, they were forb idden from eating of this fruit.

Had they obeyed, 'LORD God' would have devised more commands to give them (and wound up doing so anyways).

But didn't 2. have to happen so that Jesus could later show up and save us? He couldn't have if we didn't understand what sinning was, right

If 2 hadn't happened, Jesus would be doing other things right now. So would his(?) 'brothers and sisters', come to think of it.

Yes, which was the punishment for eating from the tree of knowledge as mentioned in Genesis 2:16-17.

As well as the plan all along.

Why was it forbidden to eat from the tree of knowledge?

To aid the temptation.

@VWRCA, but the problem is that rather than knowing good and evil, we are predisposed to only evil.

So what you're saying is that the fruit did not work as advertised?

We have satan, and a host of angels to fill that "slot".

Yes, yes we do.

It was the actual partaking of such false knowledge.

Added a word.

 

[peter grimes]

Malum is Latin for Apple, and is also Latin for Evil. (The length of the first vowel differs, but the re still spelled the same.)

Wrong case, buddy

Seriously, though, very clever typo

 

[warpus]

You're -probably- correct. Had 2 never happened, would there have been a need for the sacrifice of God's son? Doubt it, but I've never really given it much (any!) thought since 2 did happen.

But if 2. had to happen for Jesus to arrive, and since God knows everything.. wasn't the whole tree of good and evil thing a set up? I mean, God *wanted* Adam and Eve to eat that apple.. He knew it was going to happen.

Right? I mean, assuming that your "you're probably correct" is correct.

But what's the lesson there then? The only one I can see is "If you want to live forever, you can't understand the difference between being good and being bad", but that doesn't really seem to make sense to me.

Maybe it's "Only mortals can understand the difference between sin and non-sin" ? But that doesn't make sense either, as it would imply that God couldn't tell the difference apart himself.

 

[JollyRoger]

Maybe it's "Only mortals can understand the difference between sin and non-sin" ? But that doesn't make sense either, as it would imply that God couldn't tell the difference apart himself.

I think the Bible provides ample evidence for that proposition.

 

[Rashiminos]

But what's the lesson there then? The only one I can see is "If you want to live forever, you can't understand the difference between being good and being bad", but that doesn't really seem to make sense to me.

Maybe it's "Only mortals can understand the difference between sin and non-sin" ? But that doesn't make sense either, as it would imply that God couldn't tell the difference apart himself.

Bait.

 

[warpus]

Are you implying that God used the tree to bait Adam and Eve to sin so that Jesus could save humanity from it?

Or are you saying something about me?

 

[Rashiminos]

Are you implying that God used the tree to bait Adam and Eve to sin so that Jesus could save humanity from it?

No, and I was referring to 'LORD God.'

 

[warpus]

You lost me at no

 

[Rashiminos]

You lost me at no

Would it help if I said I was drawing a distinction between god and 'LORD God?'

 

[warpus]

Did I spell God with a lower case g somewhere? I have no idea what you're on about or how it relates to what I was saying.

 

[Berzerker]

Yes, it was a punishment for disobedience. They were commanded not to eat from the tree of knowledge on pain of death. Before that, they were able to eat from the tree of life and retain immortality. After the ate from the tree of knowledge, they were punished and evicted from paradise as punishment (the on pain of death part for eating from the tree of knowledge), cutting them off from the tree of life/immortality, leading to their eventual deaths.

But they weren't immortal, they were and remained mortal. Nor did they die the day they partook, you quoted God saying their death would be that day, not centuries later.

Well the serpent gave its thoughts as to why God forbade it, but God never actually said why it was forbidden, just that it was.

God did explain why it was forbidden, their eyes would be opened knowing good and evil like God. Thats what the serpent said would happen and thats what God reported to his buddies.

God's "buddies" is an interesting term to use. We have satan, and a host of angels to fill that "slot". Unless we go with the Father, Son, and Spirit personality of God. We cannot go with "other gods"

The term used is a plural of god, his buddies were other gods - let us make man in our image

"The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Why does God fear an immortal Adam and Eve? I suspect its the same reason for disrupting humans building the Tower of Babel - for what they'd achieve

The Garden was a place of paradise where life was easy and there was the tree that would afford immortality.

Sounds more like a slave plantation, Adam was to work in the Garden, not kick back in a life of leisure.

Why does disobedience have to be mentioned? Every one knows that the physical application of learning what disobedience and the difference between good and evil was the forbidden fruit. It was not a thought that caused human downfall. It was not even seeing how far one could get, ie. touching the fruit that produced results. It was the actual partaking of such knowledge.

If Adam and Eve were ignorant about sin then how'd they know that disobedience was sinful?

 

[Rashiminos]

Bait was in response to "What's the lesson there then?"