Questions & Answers

[kolhite]

yes, since each time your pop grows, is grows by more % than it did last time, so you would have:
1 pop - 10 citizens
2 pop - 25 citizens
3 pop - 48 citizens
4 pop - 90 citizens
5 pop - 150 citizens

Get what I mean?

Perfect, that's exactly what I wanted to know, thanks. That's useful to know for this scenario, in particular. Someone in the main forum also tipped me off to the fact that you can check your actual population by scrolling over the bar at the top of the city screen (which I guess I never saw a reason to do before ).

I'm also attaching a save of the game I'm talking about. If someone can clear up my confusion, then you will have my eternal gratitude (at least, as close to eternal as I can get).

If you're wondering about all the MAs and destroyers---when I went back to the autosave to test, I dropped a bunch around to make contact with everybody, then filled my cities with embassies (also gave myself a bunch of random techs out of frustration )

It was a pretty fun game---you'll see that I got over China in pop (according to the F8 screen) by invading Persia and was about to make 1200AD just as my economy tanked completely.

EDIT: thanks also for your reply deanej!

 

[BurnEmDown]

In simpler terms: A 2 pop city is bigger than two 1 pop cities.

 

[kolhite]

Yeah, got that (thanks), what I was still wondering about was the fact that I had a larger percentage of total population according to the F8 screen, but yet was still losing the 3rd victory condition.

I now see that according to the demographics screen (which I had simply forgotten about), China IS indeed 1st in population.

Although I would still like to know how it is possible that China can have a larger population, and yet have a smaller percentage of total world population according to
the F8 screen.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

I'm not sure, but maybe the F8 screen just counts the amount of pops without calculating the real population.

 

[kolhite]

I'm not sure, but maybe the F8 screen just counts the amount of pops without calculating the real population.

Yeah, that could be. It would be useful to know, for domination victories, if that's the case.

Counting just the pop points that appear on the city bar, I have 67 to China's 60 (if I counted right), or China has about 90% of my pop points. The F8 screen gives China at 13%, me at 15.09% of (what is ostensibly) total world population. Judging by that, though, China should have about 86% of my pop points.

Doesn't match exactly, but it's close (closer than if you try to reconcile F8's percentages with the demographics screen, where I have 8,367,000 and China has 10,511,000 people)

Could be I added the pop points wrong.

The discrepancy also could have something to do with China needing 70% of world pop to win domination, as opposed to the 33% for India.

It doesn't have anything to do with the foreign population of captured cities not counting as *your* population in demographics, but nonetheless counting towards the domination limit (the entire population of a captured city adds immediately to your population in demographics).

Sorry if anyone finds this question simply tedious---or if I'm going OCD here---but now I just wanna know what the heck is going on with these calculations!

 

[Soda]

F8 counts population points, which is what domination victory is based on. The scores for other civs seem to be rounded to the nearest percent.

The demographics screen counts real population, which is what India's historic victory condition is based on. Each city's real population is proportional to (population points) ^ 3.2, which is larger than non-RFC Civ (where the exponent is 2.8).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

When is a person not a full person? When you employ various methods for doing your census and do zoning tricks like the Republicans did.

 

[dragodon64]

F8 counts population points, which is what domination victory is based on. The scores for other civs seem to be rounded to the nearest percent.

The demographics screen counts real population, which is what India's historic victory condition is based on. Each city's real population is proportional to (population points) ^ 3.2, which is larger than non-RFC Civ (where the exponent is 2.8).

Ah, thank you! I have been trying to figure out how the population system worked for so long! And while it does show how big "big" ancient cities were (size 3 or 4 = a few dozen thousand) compared to big modern cities (size 25=~8 million) it also implies that when population sextuples (1 to 2 in normal civ) output only increases about 50%... whereas in real history increases in population increased output per capita through specialization.

I know it sounds like I'm complaining, but I'm not; I'm just throwing some thougths out there. And frankly, this population system is great, I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[kolhite]

F8 counts population points, which is what domination victory is based on. The scores for other civs seem to be rounded to the nearest percent.

The demographics screen counts real population, which is what India's historic victory condition is based on. Each city's real population is proportional to (population points) ^ 3.2, which is larger than non-RFC Civ (where the exponent is 2.8).

Aha! Great, now I know! And the rounding then explains why the numbers were a little off (as per my last post).

I like that the exponent is raised in RFC; it makes this scenario with the Indians a little trickier. It means you need to balance expansion with wonder-building/GP-farming early on. It's easier to focus first entirely on getting your oracle for theo and christianity, your prophets to bulb divine right for Islam, and then fill out the subcontinent, build up a military and maybe take a few persian cities. If I had one more early city that had reached size 13, say, prolly would have gotten my UHV.

 

[DroopyTofu]

I'v just recently started playing RFC (I love it), and had several questions about England's UHV. When it says "found at least 3 cities on each continent by 1730 (i think 30)", could someone give me the definition of "found". Can I build the 3 cities, but not defend them and let the barbs capture them, and it still count. Can I grant independence to them? Does N and S America count as one or two continents? I'm guessing Antartica does not count? Does Britian count as Europe? Can I capture the needed cities?

Thanks in advance for the help to my numerous questions!!!

 

[blizzrd]

I'v just recently started playing RFC (I love it), and had several questions about England's UHV. When it says "found at least 3 cities on each continent by 1730 (i think 30)", could someone give me the definition of "found". Can I build the 3 cities, but not defend them and let the barbs capture them, and it still count.

Yes. You have to have used 3 settlers to found cities on each continent, i.e. by hitting the 'b' for build button yourself.

Can I grant independence to them?

Yes, or lose them to respawns, or to instability causing them to declare their own independence from your empire. You don't have to keep any of the cities, just have founded them before the deadline.

Does N and S America count as one or two continents? I'm guessing Antartica does not count? Does Britian count as Europe?

Check the RFC Atlas for the English UHV areas, as to what constitutes each continent.

Can I capture the needed cities?

No.

Thanks in advance for the help to my numerous questions!!!

You're welcome!

 

[DroopyTofu]

Thanks. I won that game, and actually was able to keep all my colonies with a fairly stabl economy.

 

[DroopyTofu]

Okay, one more question. Are the difficulty levels on RFC equatable to the ones on normal Civ IV? What are they approximatly the same as? I usually play on Warlord or Noble, but have been using Viceroy since I was new to RFC, but it seems fairly easy.

 

[Wessel V1]

According to the xml files, Viceroy means Chieftain or Settler, Monarch means Prince and Emperor means Deity. However, someone who could normally win a game on Noble, can win a standard game on Monarch if he's used to the mechanics. There are some special rules and hidden factors, that make a civ easier or much harder. It's all about details.

 

[blizzrd]

Standard difficulty in RFC is Monarch. Viceroy is not supposed to be a challenge in any way. Emperor is supposed to be a challenge (and it certainly is).

AFAIK, the UHVs were tailored to be possible on Monarch but not necessarily so on Emperor. Some UHVs can be completed on Emperor, but not all.

EDIT: The base stability of your civ is one level higher on Viceroy (i.e starts as Solid) and one level lower on Emperor (i.e. starts on Unstable). On Monarch, you start out in the middle (Stable).

 

[DroopyTofu]

Thanks. I think I'll try a game on Monarch next time.
One more question (sorry, I'm really a noob at RFC), I was playing Portugal and doing great. I had captured/collapsed Spain and was still Solid in stability. I had the first UHV (best map by 1500) through map trading. I had open borders with almost everyone I knew when 1650 came around. The victory condition says to have Open Borders with 7 civs in 1650. I didn't get the 2nd UHV, and I had many more that 7 OP.
I thought I might have had too many Open borders,so I laded a autosave from the turn before the dead line and canceled a bucnh of Open Borders. After several times of not getting it, I gave up and went on to try for a diplo victory. Anyone know why what would have been a great victory ended up messign up? I had vassals of Monty and HC, but had had Open Borders befor they became vassals. Do they count as 2 of the 7?

 

[blizzrd]

The victory condition says to have Open Borders with 7 civs in 1650. I didn't get the 2nd UHV, and I had many more that 7 OP.

The Portuguese UHV condition is for 12 open borders agreements in 1650AD, not 7.

I had vassals of Monty and HC, but had had Open Borders befor they became vassals. Do they count as 2 of the 7?

Vassals should count as civs that you have open borders agreements with (as long as you make this diplomatic pact with your vassals - it isn't automatic).

 

[Tigranes]

Ok, I think I need some help, guys. Playing Emperor Spain, the year is 1455. Santo Domingo founded as a first European city in the New World. Aztecs done. However I capitulated Incas and liberated Cusco. Never read the wiki to avoid spoilers. What can I do to make them free again? I have lots of time until the 2nd UHV deadline and owning Viceroyality of Peru does not count as "controlling Incas lands" (I wonder why, makes perfect sense to me). Their landmass is now 138% of the master's (me), and they can be free if they have 50%. Why don't they choose the freedom? Should I close borders and make them furious with me? What can I do besides restarting?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

keep demanding tribute from them. If your power ratio to them is too high, they will probably keep giving, but you might get lucky and they'll declare war on you.

 

[Tigranes]

Thanks!

I was not sure if capitulated vassal can actually declare a war to the master just becouse of the tribute.

On the second thought maybe I should just collapse them? Found cities in Phillipines, perhaps, and gifting them to Incas? (Ironically Viceroyality of Mexico was governing Phillipines). But I have less than 20 cities and I am afraid this will collapse me rather than them