Questions to Evolutionists

[HannibalBarka]

Our logic is also limited so don't overestimate it.

I am not sure about mine, but yours is limited indeed

 

[civ2]

HannibalBarka
How funny.
(Didn't know which smilie to use. )
Limited and "limited" isn't just the same thing.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Scientists seek ever more precise theories to describe the patterns we see in the behaviour of the universe. The fact that our theories fall short of a 100% accurate prediction of these patterns simply demonstrates we have more work to do.

I am suggesting that the existence of predictable patterns indicates the existence of fundamental rules that drive the universe, and they are there waiting to be discovered. I called them "laws", and started a terminological debate that went nowhere, but if we can get past that fruitless discussion I'm intrigued by the suggestion someone made earlier that this discovery is not what science is trying to achieve.

According to a fairly popular stance in the philosophy of science, the goal of science is simply to make as good predictive models as possible. This is one of the cornerstones of the philosophy of Positivism

It may be noted that the scientific method could potentially arrive at the fundamental rules you are refering to, but never verify that it has reached them. This is, in a nutshell, because you can't test every possible scenario in finite time. As far as I'm concerned, this fact makes it uninteresting to discuss the existence of fundamental rules.

 

[Truronian]

Truronian
Easy answer: God is BEYOND both logic and universe.
Logic is also a part of creation btw.
Universe is limited whilst God is not.
Our logic is also limited so don't overestimate it.

Well, I say that is complete rubbish, ergo you have proven nothing. I could quite simply say that God also has a mortal enemy named Ted, but their logic is beyond us so we cannot understand. Doesn't mean its true.

 

[civ2]

Truronian
People don't FULLY understand how they think (brain's work is still a great mistery far beyond just electromagnetic impulses) - then according to you they (and YOU, my friend ) don't think at all!

 

[Truronian]

Truronian
People don't FULLY understand how they think (brain's work is still a great mistery far beyond just electromagnetic impulses) - then according to you they (and YOU, my friend ) don't think at all!

Not understanding something proves neither its existance nor its lack there of. According to you not understanding something means it definitely exists! That means magic must exist , and UFOs

 

[The Last Conformist]

... and the infinitely powerful green invisible star-troll with square circular eyes that lives under my bed.

 

[civ2]

...and already ate your brain.

 

[warpus]

God is the Source of everything - and creating implys one "source" making another "result".
But the very first Source can't have its own source - or you should then just "go one level" backwards and call that source "the first".

So why couldn't the Multi/Universe have been the very first source?

 

[civ2]

warpus
It could but it's not.
It's obviously limited and everything that is limited... is limited.
Which means that there (at least) can be something outside the object.
In case of God, the problem is more complex since He's not only "outside" but also "inside" - God and universe aren't separate things or we wouldn't exist.
On the other hand, there's a certain level of separation - or we would be "consumed" by God's "essence".

 

[Veritass]

Easy answer: God is BEYOND both logic and universe.

What universe?
Have you been to Alpha Centauri? Other galaxies?
How can you make these claims?
The entire "universe" as we see it is just an elaborate sky painting that God put around the Earth. It was part of His same plan in hiding the million-year-old-looking fossils 6,000 years ago.

 

[warpus]

It's obviously limited and everything that is limited... is limited.

Thanks, that explains everything.

 

[civ2]

warpus
I'm limited too.

Veritass
And what about you?
Same answer.
The universe is huge which doesn't change anything except our belief that God is Almighty.
(I mean the universe itself proves Creator's power being immeasurable. )

 

[nihilistic]

I'm limited too.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "limited"?

 

[civ2]

nihilistic
Limited is something that has limits - obvious.
Anyone is limited by his own mind, his body, his upbringing etc.

 

[mdwh]

warpus
It could but it's not.
It's obviously limited and everything that is limited... is limited.
Which means that there (at least) can be something outside the object.

But why is this "something" God?

It could just be "the thing which started the Universe" - whether that's the big bang, or whatever else.

 

[civ2]

mdwh
The Big Bang is an event of the universe while God is not.

I sometimes think you just don't like the word God...

 

[Souron]

warpus
It could but it's not.
It's obviously limited and everything that is limited... is limited.
Which means that there (at least) can be something outside the object.

Not following you here. Why is that so?

In case of God, the problem is more complex since He's not only "outside" but also "inside" - God and universe aren't separate things or we wouldn't exist.
On the other hand, there's a certain level of separation - or we would be "consumed" by God's "essence".

What???
Try to avoid making arguments based off something you don't understand, such as the nature of your God.

 

[nihilistic]

nihilistic
Limited is something that has limits - obvious.
Anyone is limited by his own mind, his body, his upbringing etc.

No, I think you are using words you do not fully understand by assigning it one vage definition after another? So, by your own words, if "Limited" is something that "has limits", what do you mean by "limited". I'm guessing that's only fair considering that you differentiated them yourself:

HannibalBarka
How funny.
(Didn't know which smilie to use. )
Limited and "limited" isn't just the same thing.

Also, by "Anyone is limited by his own mind, his body, his upbringing etc.", you seemed to indicate that the modifier "limited" is supposed to be applied to people, maybe specifically male. But this next quote contradiccts it.

warpus
It could but it's not.
It's obviously limited and everything that is limited... is limited.

So the term "limited" applies to non-human objects as well? What do you mean by "limited" or "having limits"? Are they physical limits such as mass, height, momentum ... ? Maybe cognitive limits (which is an area you are demonstrating 'limitations' in right now).

 

[Kozmos]

Evolution roxxorzed my boxxorz. Therefore it is correct.