Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
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Welcome to CFC
and - buy a legal copy
This is the case for cracked or otherwise illegal copies of the game - so no fix here...
Figured as much, it was not till after I posted that he told me he ripped it off bitTorrent.
@ggganz: thanks for your post (#6369), I've got civscale but it seems it only works to civ4.Thanks anyway for your help.
Maybe a very silly question but I'll do it:
in the game there are two units it seems they are almost the same, longbowman and crossbowman:I never know which one I shall choose, which one is better to what occasion. Could anybody please explain to me the difference? Thanks for your help.
Maybe a very silly question but I'll do it:
in the game there are two units it seems they are almost the same, longbowman and crossbowman:I never know which one I shall choose, which one is better to what occasion. Could anybody please explain to me the difference? Thanks for your help.
The Crossbowman is an anti-melee specialist, the Longbowman more of an all-purpose city/hill defender.
Normally you'll seldom use Longbowmen on the offense, but Crossbowmen can be useful during attacks if your opponent relies heavily on melee units (instead of going after his Macemen with your own Macemen, use Crossbowmen against them).
For defense, particularly against a mixed army and/or when defending city and/or hill fields, Longbowmen are usually the better choice, but again, Crossbows are better here against melee units only (unless it's a Longbowman defending in a hills city).
MangleMeElmo
Proud War Criminal
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 213
Maybe the RNG goddesses are on their period, but I've had a really tough time finding copper in the last 12 games I've tried to play. I've recently started playing on fractal maps and I'm considering switching back to continents because I can never seem to find copper close enough for an axe rush. I play on Monarch, so most games are decided on whether or not you can execute an early war successfully or not. Has anyone else has this problem with fractal?
Roland Johansen
Deity
I'm presently playing a huge fractal map and the closest copper is at distance 10, the closest iron at distance 5 and the closest horses at distance 6 and 7. But this is on a huge map and there are less resources per 100 tiles on a huge map. I have 2 horses connected with my first 4 cities and the fifth is going to connect the iron.
I think it's simply luck and nothing more except when you use balanced resources at the startup of your continents maps. Then you will always have some resources close to you. I've had many continents games where I didn't start near copper. But as said before, on huge maps there are less resources and I always play on huge maps.
By the way, I've never done an early war rush (not that efficient on huge maps) and I've never played below emperor, so an early war is not a necessary component of monarch+ games. It might make it easier to win, that's all.
I always consider it a fun challenge when some important resources aren't easy to get.
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
This is very true. My current game is a huge fractal map, and on "my" continent is 7 of the 13 total civs I have the game set up for. And on my whole continent, there is just 1 source of Iron, and 1 source of stone (both not mine.......yet).
However, I have 5 copper, 4 horses, and 6 Ivory in my dozen or so cities. As RJ said, there are less resources on a huge map, and it really is random. You must just have experienced a bad run of luck.
Roland Johansen
Deity
No iron is not that nice, however you seem content with what you have for now and I can imagine as you already have a lot. Iron is not a necessity (as we seem to agree upon).
In my opinion, the most difficult starting positions are those where you start on a small island without happiness resources( or with a very low amount of different health resources). If you can't grow your cities, then it becomes extremely hard to compete with civilizations that you will only meet after astronomy has been discovered and are happily trading technologies with one another.
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Very true again. I really have to grit my teeth if I want to persevere with those kinds of starts, as your cities can work such limited squares as you said early on and thus stagnating your economy and so on. Those maps really force your hand to go for an early Monarch, and / or pray you manage to pick up an earlyish religion, then maybe try for the Hanging Gardens for the health boost, but unhappy people don't work in Civ, healthy or not...
Roland Johansen
Deity
Such maps indeed force your strategy and that's one of the reasons that I don't like them that much. You're struggling to get some bigger cities and you are all alone on that island. That can get a bit boring and you might not even have a chance to win. It is especially hard when you notice that you're alone on an island when the first religions have already been researched.
Still, once in a while, it is good to have a supremely challenging map like that.
BrantleyL1
Warlord
Last two games have been fractal.
The prior one was interesting. Started out on the end of a decent peninsula, with a mountain blocking access to the rest of the continent.
Room for about 4 cities. But, I had NO copper or Iron. Shoulda researched sailing a bit earlier. By the time I got to it, the rest of the continent was taken.
Scouted out the rest of the world and found a couple of fairly large islands. One was covered by two CIVs and the other by one of the weaker AIs. I thought that lack of iron would prevent me from building muskets and or riflemen.
By this time, I had a number of rifles, so I built a small armada and headed off to take the other island. There was Iron there, so that was my goal. (It was actually on a small island just off the coast.) Took the small off island, but the culture on the main island still had the iron & that city was WELL defended. Built up a few more rifles and ferried over and was making inroads into the main island. Then Isabella declares on me. Don't know why. So, I put that one on hold. I might go back, but I see it as more frustrating than fun.
Current game is another fractal map. Started near the east edge of the map & I've kept borders closed so the other civs did not settle east of me. So, I've got the entire east of the continent. I've just (thru map trading) got the big picture - just one large - oddly shaped continent. So, I'm building up my attack force (Axes, spears, etc.) and am preparing to sweep west. This time, I have PLENTY of resources.
So, I guess (as the tooltip says), Fractal maps are UNPREDICTABLE.
MangleMeElmo
Proud War Criminal
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 213
Since I recently began playing on Monarch, I have begun to appreciate Hunting as a starting tech. Starting with a scout is great, but I see some people building another one from the first turn. I'm wondering if building a second scout instead of a worker is really a good idea. It seems good because it allows the city to start growing sooner, and the odds of finding goody huts are higher, but what about the delay in improving tiles? I'm just having trouble weighing the pros and cons of building a scout (or even warrior) first instead of a worker.
P.S: I generally dislike starting with a warrior because they're slow and they can pop barbarians from huts.
P.S: I generally dislike starting with a warrior because they're slow and they can pop barbarians from huts.
Roland Johansen
Deity
Starting with another scout is a bit of a gamble. You're gambling that the scout might find something really useful (like a technology or a settler) that the other scout will not find. Those chances depend very much on the map type. If you start on an archipelago map, then there are only very few tiles to explore and thus the extra scout will probably be useless. On a pangea type of map, the second scout will be more useful and on a fractal map, you won't know because you don't know if you're on a large landmass or on a tiny island. But even on a huge pangea map, your scout can be eaten by a bear 2 turns after he leaves your cultural borders.
Another very important factor is difficulty level. On the higher difficulty levels, the scouts are less useful for four reasons. First of all, you get a lesser bonus against animals so your scout is less likely to survive these animal encounters. Second, you do not find such helpful things in the huts. Settlers are for instance only found on levels below noble and technologies are also less likely on the higher difficulty levels. Third, the AI has far more scouting units at the higher levels as it starts with more units. So you're less likely to find the huts before the AI finds them. Fourth, the barbarians start appearing sooner, ending the time period in which the scout can (to some extent) safely navigate the wilderness.
Building a worker first is a pretty sure thing. You know what you get and how long it will take you. And if you are somewhat decent at planning your research, then you should be able to keep your worker doing useful things for your city. Since improved tiles are about twice as useful as unimproved tiles (especially for food resources), you want to have that worker out as quickly as possible.
I play at the higher levels, so I always go for the worker first. (Competitive multiplayer on small maps would probably force you to go for a defensive unit first). But it might be true that on large or huge pangea maps at the lower difficulty levels, the second scout would be better on average. It is hard to say as it depends on the luck that your scout has at exploring some extra huts.
Roland has answered quite thoroughly but I'd like to share my view on this subject.
I tend to start half my games with warrior, the other half with worker.
Why? Because in half the games I start researching BW straight away and I want my capital to be size 2 and be able to whip something if needed, thus I must let it grow. I'm not a big fan of scouts, for the reasons Roland gave you (I almost never find a hut anyway) and a warrior can effectively fogbust or defend/give a happiness boost to a city while the scout does only a very specific kind of fogbusting (= running away when danger comes).
If I don't start researching BW straight away, I'll go worker first, because you just can't live 100 turns without worker.
BrantleyL1
Warlord
Recently, I've been trying this... Assuming you have Agriculture, this has been working fairly well....
First - Build a Warrior. Research Mysticism.
Second - Build a worker. Research Bronze Working - this is usually done just before the worker is done. Revolt to Slavery.
Third - Build a settler - have the worker chop to hurry the settler. Research pottery.
Fourth - build another warrior. First Warrior escorts settler to new city location.
Fifth - Stonehenge - have worker chop stuff to build farms or cottages (depending on which direction you are headed). When it gets close, whip it (Before the AI gets it!)...
Meanwhile, have your setler settle (hopefully near some copper). Build another worker there. Start mining copper & building axemen.
First - Build a Warrior. Research Mysticism.
Second - Build a worker. Research Bronze Working - this is usually done just before the worker is done. Revolt to Slavery.
Third - Build a settler - have the worker chop to hurry the settler. Research pottery.
Fourth - build another warrior. First Warrior escorts settler to new city location.
Fifth - Stonehenge - have worker chop stuff to build farms or cottages (depending on which direction you are headed). When it gets close, whip it (Before the AI gets it!)...
Meanwhile, have your setler settle (hopefully near some copper). Build another worker there. Start mining copper & building axemen.
Roland Johansen
Deity
The following remark is a bit unrelated to the starting strategies, but I just want to make it in case you don't know.
If you poprush (or goldrush) small or big wonders, then there is a penalty. Normally you get 30 hammers for each population point (at normal game speed), but if you poprush Stonehenge, then you'll only get 15 hammers for each population point which is fairly inefficient. The penalty is not the same for all the small and world wonders.
However, sometimes it is possible to get a nice production overflow by poprushing something else. The hammers from overflow don't get this penalty.
An ideal example (at normal game speed): You have access to stone and can poprush.
You poprush a granary at 29/60 hammers using 2 population points and thus getting 60 hammers. The overflow of the poprush and the production of the turn that you poprush are going to flow into Stonehenge. Say that the city produces 6 hammers per turn after the poprush, then 29+6 base hammers will flow into stonehenge purely from overflow. Add 1 timed chops for another 20 hammers and 6 hammers from that turns production and you get 29 + 6 + 20 + 6 = 61 base hammers. Stone multiplies this by 2 for 122 hammers. So you'll finish stonehenge in one turn.
And this is not a theoretical example. I've done this in a game once finishing stonehenge the turn after stone was connected. That was fun, although not a typical situation. However, it does make optimal use from production overflow to avoid the penalty for rushing a wonder.
iamnleth
Warlord
I'm playing my first monarch game (doing horribly, I might add - it's 1200 and I remain with only four cities!) But I'm just curious - what's the best way to avoid the "we fear you're becoming too advanced" limit? And does it ever disappear once it shows up?
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Best way, is to research more techs yourself, and not trade for them. In my games, once I've reached this stage, I'v never really needed to trade for techs (thats at least a couple of hundred monarch/emp huge map games). Sorry therefore I don't know if it ever goes away, but I don't think it does.
There is a well written article on the WFYABTA issue. I'll try to find it and link to it, but not right now.
some basic rules for it :
- it depends on the number of tech traded. It's not linked to beakers. meditation has the same value as rocketry.
- it's based on a treshhold, varrying for each leader. Mansa Musa trades twice as long as most others. Some trade only half as long.
- every tech trade a leader is aware of (= every tech you traded after you met him) is counting, not only those with him. You could be in the WFYABTA zone with brennus before having traded anything with him.
- only techs you gained are counted, not those you give away. So selling techs doesn't enter the WFYABTA counter.
- there is a % each turn that a leader forgets a tech trade. Can't remember the value, but it's not a lot. Anyway, it means that indeed at some point you can come out of WFYABTA zone. It may be very long.
- you can escape the WFYABTA if you and the guy you trade with are both in the lowest half of the scoreboard. Beware, the dead have a score of 0 but still count as part of the board.
- you can escape the WFYABTA if the guy you try to trade with is friendly with you and all of your "team" (includes permanent alliances and vassals)
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