Roland Johansen
Deity
Izmir, I think... the name is familiar. Presumably he's playing Turkey (Ottomans).
Heh, that's funny. I even know that city and not from playing this game. I've been on a holiday there a few years ago.
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
- Thread starter Civrules
- Start date
Heh, that's funny. I even know that city and not from playing this game. I've been on a holiday there a few years ago.
JujuLautre
Deity
"influencal" just means that they have a little bit of cultural influence. If you look inside the city screen, you will see the culture bar on the bottom left, over the production box. It will tell you how much culture the city needs to have another border pop.
With another border pop, your city radius should claim the crab. So just be patient, or make more culture in the city
With another border pop, your city radius should claim the crab. So just be patient, or make more culture in the city
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
No, you can see clearly that the city is at its fourth border expansion (it has an 80% cultural defence). As Roland pointed out before, the reason for the borders not expanding is due to the rule with culture spreading between different islands."influencal" just means that they have a little bit of cultural influence. If you look inside the city screen, you will see the culture bar on the bottom left, over the production box. It will tell you how much culture the city needs to have another border pop.
With another border pop, your city radius should claim the crab. So just be patient, or make more culture in the city
JujuLautre
Deity
yep, exact; I did not see the other posts on the other page, my bad. At least I learnt something
Hi everyone,
I just got BtS, and, thanks to my new computer, I'm now able to really get into Civ4 and enjoy it. I was wondering if anybody would take a look at my game (Dutch/large/archipelago/Monarch) to see if there's any improvements I could make in my game. One specific question I have is: should I be spending commerce this early on espionage points? Also: how is my city spacing and placement? I tried to stay away from the desert/plains areas. Please let me know if you have any other comments...thanks!
Here's my save (BtS v3.13)
I just got BtS, and, thanks to my new computer, I'm now able to really get into Civ4 and enjoy it. I was wondering if anybody would take a look at my game (Dutch/large/archipelago/Monarch) to see if there's any improvements I could make in my game. One specific question I have is: should I be spending commerce this early on espionage points? Also: how is my city spacing and placement? I tried to stay away from the desert/plains areas. Please let me know if you have any other comments...thanks!
Here's my save (BtS v3.13)
Roland Johansen
Deity
It's probably best to start a thread about this in the strategy and tips subforum. I sometimes see these kinds of threads there and there are always many people willing to take a look at the save. The quality of the comments varies, so don't always think that someone responding in your thread would know better than you.
And what one person thinks is a good strategy is frowned upon by others. But you'll certainly get some good advice.I'm willing to take a look at it. Is this with Bhruic's unofficial patch or not? Many people are using that, so that's why I'm asking. I've installed that one as part of a mod, but not in the basic game, so I'd have to do that then.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Hi Ginger_Ale,
I remember you from over in the lands of Civ3. Good stuff, glad to see you're getting into BTS. Is this your first proper experience of Civ4 or have you played some games of it before?
Here are a few random comments of mine on your savegame as I think of them. I'll probably by no means cover everything, but will hopefully provide a few useful tips based on my own experience to date.
- You have quite a severe happiness problem across your empire. Part of this could be saved immediately by making a temporary trade with the Chinese of your health resources for their happiness (Sugar). You are not using the health anyway, so even though you are giving away your last source, you are still getting the better deal. And you can always take back the deal later.
- There are not enough cottages at your capital, and your research is suffering as a result. Your capital should be especially heavy on cottages after using the Bureaucracy civic. Moreover, those farms that you have built are near-useless; cottages would be a far better use of land. Also, cottage river tiles first, as you get a much larger bonus (especially being a Financial civ). There are a few forests on rivers that you could have chopped and placed cottages on.
- For that matter, more cottages where there are farms throughout your empire would be an improvement. You really don't need those farms especially since you have such a happiness problem (and thus growth is pointless).
- Nijmegen is missing out on two potentially excellent coastal resources (Fish and Clam) because you have not improved them. Do so as soon as possible! You should always aim to improve all resource tiles as soon as possible after them entering your cultural sphere of influence, and especially when they enter your cities' spheres of influence.
- Slavery would likely be a much more beneficial civic than Caste System for you at the present time. You are not utilising the unlimited scientists/merchants/artists at all, and I count three workshops throughout your entire empire. Slavery would allow you to whip your useless unhappy citizens and in the meantime gather some very useful hammers. Just don't whip on the first turn of a build or the price is increased.
- You could probably have done with placing more cities around your land. Although your land is not superb, there are several locations where extra cities would be beneficial - for instance, south of Utrecht (using the Sheep resource in its fat cross to grow), north of Amsterdam (using that lovely Fish), and east of Amsterdam (using the Sheep). And that's just a few possible locations on your own island - you can always move overseas a bit too, nothing wrong with that.
- Huayna Capac is an extraordinarily weak target in this game. He has only two cities, and his second city is on a different island to his first. He would be an incredibly easy civ to crush and defeat, and his cities would be excellent additions to your own empire. Moreover, you already seem to have a suitably large and powerful force right on his doorstep in Nijmegen. What are you waiting for? Invade now! Strike before he gets any more technologically advanced!
- Speaking of technology actually, you could really do with trading a lot of techs around to the two AI's that you know. Tech trades are possible all over the place, and yet you are not utilising them! Most likely this is just a mistake from coming from Civ3 originally - I remember doing a similar thing myself once. However, rest assured that in Civ4, the AI do not (at least on this difficulty level) trade around your techs freely and constantly to other AI. Thus by exchanging some of your own techs for some better ones, you are really doing yourself a favour, and not so much the AI. When you do trade, do so with Huayna Capac first (as the most backward AI), then see what Mao Zedong can offer you.
- Explore! There are still large sections of the map that are available to explore via Galley, and yet you haven't! Also, get hold of Compass and Optics as soon as possible, and build some Caravels to explore the world. The more you explore, the more civs you know, and the more options for trade come up. Trades reduce in price with the number of civs you know as well! It's fairly impossible to become technologically advanced stuck on a small island with only a couple of neighbours, especially on a Large map which has a lot of land and (presumably) players - so get out there and explore, and trade. Hopefully you should be up with the forefront researchers in the world in a short time. (Your GNP is certainly not bad, though it could be improved still further.)
- You seem to be falling victim to the "build every building in every city" trap. Make sure to only build improvements that you actually need. For instance, the Aqueducts that you have built are 100% useless, since you are not using their health benefit at all. Only build what you need, and once you have done that, build troops. Another note on this point - Nijmegen seems to have built a Library before a Lighthouse, which is very suboptimal for its location. Better to build the growth improvements first, then the economic ones in most situations.
- Your espionage slider, in a situation like this, should not be raised at all. It is too early to spend commerce on espionage, and you will only shoot yourself in the foot by doing so. The espionage slider is generally best used only in the very late game, or in the period immediately leading up to a war with a specific civ.
Those are just a few things that come to mind immediately. I'll add to them if I think of anything else.
I remember you from over in the lands of Civ3. Good stuff, glad to see you're getting into BTS. Is this your first proper experience of Civ4 or have you played some games of it before?
Here are a few random comments of mine on your savegame as I think of them. I'll probably by no means cover everything, but will hopefully provide a few useful tips based on my own experience to date.
- You have quite a severe happiness problem across your empire. Part of this could be saved immediately by making a temporary trade with the Chinese of your health resources for their happiness (Sugar). You are not using the health anyway, so even though you are giving away your last source, you are still getting the better deal. And you can always take back the deal later.
- There are not enough cottages at your capital, and your research is suffering as a result. Your capital should be especially heavy on cottages after using the Bureaucracy civic. Moreover, those farms that you have built are near-useless; cottages would be a far better use of land. Also, cottage river tiles first, as you get a much larger bonus (especially being a Financial civ). There are a few forests on rivers that you could have chopped and placed cottages on.
- For that matter, more cottages where there are farms throughout your empire would be an improvement. You really don't need those farms especially since you have such a happiness problem (and thus growth is pointless).
- Nijmegen is missing out on two potentially excellent coastal resources (Fish and Clam) because you have not improved them. Do so as soon as possible! You should always aim to improve all resource tiles as soon as possible after them entering your cultural sphere of influence, and especially when they enter your cities' spheres of influence.
- Slavery would likely be a much more beneficial civic than Caste System for you at the present time. You are not utilising the unlimited scientists/merchants/artists at all, and I count three workshops throughout your entire empire. Slavery would allow you to whip your useless unhappy citizens and in the meantime gather some very useful hammers. Just don't whip on the first turn of a build or the price is increased.
- You could probably have done with placing more cities around your land. Although your land is not superb, there are several locations where extra cities would be beneficial - for instance, south of Utrecht (using the Sheep resource in its fat cross to grow), north of Amsterdam (using that lovely Fish), and east of Amsterdam (using the Sheep). And that's just a few possible locations on your own island - you can always move overseas a bit too, nothing wrong with that.
- Huayna Capac is an extraordinarily weak target in this game. He has only two cities, and his second city is on a different island to his first. He would be an incredibly easy civ to crush and defeat, and his cities would be excellent additions to your own empire. Moreover, you already seem to have a suitably large and powerful force right on his doorstep in Nijmegen. What are you waiting for? Invade now! Strike before he gets any more technologically advanced!
- Speaking of technology actually, you could really do with trading a lot of techs around to the two AI's that you know. Tech trades are possible all over the place, and yet you are not utilising them! Most likely this is just a mistake from coming from Civ3 originally - I remember doing a similar thing myself once. However, rest assured that in Civ4, the AI do not (at least on this difficulty level) trade around your techs freely and constantly to other AI. Thus by exchanging some of your own techs for some better ones, you are really doing yourself a favour, and not so much the AI. When you do trade, do so with Huayna Capac first (as the most backward AI), then see what Mao Zedong can offer you.
- Explore! There are still large sections of the map that are available to explore via Galley, and yet you haven't! Also, get hold of Compass and Optics as soon as possible, and build some Caravels to explore the world. The more you explore, the more civs you know, and the more options for trade come up. Trades reduce in price with the number of civs you know as well! It's fairly impossible to become technologically advanced stuck on a small island with only a couple of neighbours, especially on a Large map which has a lot of land and (presumably) players - so get out there and explore, and trade. Hopefully you should be up with the forefront researchers in the world in a short time. (Your GNP is certainly not bad, though it could be improved still further.)
- You seem to be falling victim to the "build every building in every city" trap. Make sure to only build improvements that you actually need. For instance, the Aqueducts that you have built are 100% useless, since you are not using their health benefit at all. Only build what you need, and once you have done that, build troops.
Another note on this point - Nijmegen seems to have built a Library before a Lighthouse, which is very suboptimal for its location. Better to build the growth improvements first, then the economic ones in most situations.- Your espionage slider, in a situation like this, should not be raised at all. It is too early to spend commerce on espionage, and you will only shoot yourself in the foot by doing so. The espionage slider is generally best used only in the very late game, or in the period immediately leading up to a war with a specific civ.
Those are just a few things that come to mind immediately. I'll add to them if I think of anything else.
It's probably best to start a thread about this in the strategy and tips subforum. I sometimes see these kinds of threads there and there are always many people willing to take a look at the save. The quality of the comments varies, so don't always think that someone responding in your thread would know better than you.
I'm willing to take a look at it. Is this with Bhruic's unofficial patch or not? Many people are using that, so that's why I'm asking. I've installed that one as part of a mod, but not in the basic game, so I'd have to do that then.
It is without the unofficial patch.
Lord Parkin: Thank you very, very much! The reason there is such a large force next to the Inca is because I have been placing it there very recently (war should occur shortly
). I tend to avoid placing my cities too close because the maintenance costs don't justify building a subprime city. You are right, however, I do seem to suffer a bit from being too much of a builder. Perhaps it is just because it is an archipelago map (as I have waged wars early on other types of maps)...thanks again. I'll go put your advice to good use!
Roland Johansen
Deity
It is without the unofficial patch.
Lord Parkin: Thank you very, very much! The reason there is such a large force next to the Inca is because I have been placing it there very recently (war should occur shortly
Ok, I checked out your game also and I agree with everything that Lord Parkin has said.
I especially agree with his comment that you could build more cities in the less optimal spots. Your comment that maintenance doesn't justify building a subprime city is incorrect in my opinion. It is true that at the very start of the game when no economical advances have been made, it might hurt you to build cities in the less optimal spots or to expand too quickly, however after a few economical advances every city can become profitable however poor the location may be. The trade routes alone will easily pay for the maintenance cost of the city. It's just that if the location is very poor, then the initial investment of constructing a settler might not be worth the effort. If the location is very poor, then maybe your cities could construct something better than a settler. However in this case, there are many spots left which are 'good enough'.
In civ4 the old rule of land=power is still true after the initial phase of the game where the maintenance cost of cities can be a problem. And if I say land, then I mean the land that is being used by your cities and not the land that is within your cultural borders. Land within your cultural borders which isn't being used isn't that valuable. It may only hold some value in claiming an area with resources.
Lord Parkin is also right about your problem with happiness and the ways you could solve it. Since you are having problems with happiness, it is a bit weird that you haven't claimed the wine spot on your island. It would increase the happiness throughout your empire. It would actually be one of the first spots that I would have claimed after researching monarchy so that the spot could be improved. Happiness is usually a bigger problem than health at the start of the game and so I typically try to do everything to improve that situation.
By the way, your game is suffering from a bug which is present in BTS 3.13 without the unofficial patch. This bug allows the AI to trade for resources it already possesses. Since these resources are basically almost without value for the AI, it will ask several of them in return for a single resource which you can use.
The AI should actually not be trading for resources it already possesses. In this case if you ask Mao what he would like to have for sugar, he'll answer crab, fish and iron. He probably already has crab although you can't see this, you know he already has fish. He probably doesn't have iron, so he's actually asking for too much as a strategic resource is worth a lot more than a happiness resource.
Lord Parkin is right that you should do a sugar-corn deal. That's a fair deal and would bring you benefits.
Good luck with your conquest of the Incans. You do have enough troops to conquer its second city and probably enough to also conquer its capital as your forces are more advanced than his. When you have conquered him, you should quickly expand further into the unclaimed islands before someone else claims them. On such a large world, you should claim some 12-15 cities before being content. With more (well-developed) cities, you could dramatically increase your research speed. You can of course expand beyond that, but with such a number, you should be able to easily lead the technology race.
The Moai Statues have been constructed in a city where they don't do a lot of good. I usually place them in a city with some 15+ water tiles. Such a city would normally be pretty poor, but with the statues, it can be a good city.
I also agree with Lord Parkin in his comments about land improvement (more cottages), trading, building useless buildings and exploration, but I have nothing to add to that.
Hello Folks,
http://apolyton.net/civ4/info.php
Leader traits are still a bit of a mystery to me; I do not understand them 100%. What do the following mean(?):
1.+25% hammers for Worker
2. +100% hammers for Forge,Lighthouse, Courthouse, University, Temple, Granary, Harbor, etc.
3. + 50% hammers for Wonders
4. +100% Birth Rate
5. +1 Coin on plots with 2 Coin (meaning, for example, that instead of getting two coins from a Hamlet, you get three?)
Please help where you can.
Regards,
JohnYoga
http://apolyton.net/civ4/info.php
Leader traits are still a bit of a mystery to me; I do not understand them 100%. What do the following mean(?):
1.+25% hammers for Worker
2. +100% hammers for Forge,Lighthouse, Courthouse, University, Temple, Granary, Harbor, etc.
3. + 50% hammers for Wonders
4. +100% Birth Rate
5. +1 Coin on plots with 2 Coin (meaning, for example, that instead of getting two coins from a Hamlet, you get three?)
Please help where you can.
Regards,
JohnYoga
JujuLautre
Deity
1/2/3 means that, when you produce the following items in a city, your hammer output is increased by the given percentage. If a 10 hammer/turn city of an organized leader produces a factory, it produces 20 hammers/turn for the factory.
4 is the same but for great people point production.
5, you got it right
4 is the same but for great people point production.
5, you got it right
Thanks as well. Regarding the bug: should I use the unofficial v3.13 patch? I have already downloaded it. I'll try to read some SGs and more threads in general to see how others play the game...
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
It's probably a good idea to play with the unofficial patch - most serious BTS players do, since it fixes so many important issues. Make a backup of your old file first though, just in case you want to revert back to the original version.
Roland Johansen
Deity
Installation of this unofficial patch is fairly simple and is explained in the accompanying readme file. You can use the patch on an already existing game and the rule changes and bug fixes are immediately applied to any new events in the game.
I think that you'll find that many people play this game differently. Some will say that cottages are everything and others will tell you that you should go for specialists. Some will tell you that you should build a few great specialised cities, others will tell you to expand and create a large empire. Some will tell you to chop all forests around your cities, others will tell you to leave some of them as they still hold some value in the late game. And it is of course also fun to find your own style.
After a few games, you might want to check out some of the War Academy articles for hidden game mechanics and the strategies that these game mechanics allow.
But most importantly of all: have some fun.
6K Man
Bureaucrat
Just a couple of things to add to JL's response. For point #5, you are correct, but note that it's +1 commerce on any tile with 2 or more commerce. So you don't get +2 commerce on a Town that normally gives you 4, for example.
Also, the answers that JL gave you are correct, but note that these bonuses add, rather than multiply together. So for example, if you have a Philosophical leader and are in a Golden Age (BtS), you'll get +100 and +100 GP birth rate - +200% total. Not "doubled" - the bonus applies to your base rate, in nearly all cases. This may be obvious to you, but it was something I kept forgetting, over and over and over....
1/2/3 means that, when you produce the following items in a city, your hammer output is increased by the given percentage. If a 10 hammer/turn city of an organized leader produces a factory, it produces 20 hammers/turn for the factory.
4 is the same but for great people point production.
5, you got it right
JujuLautre,
Thank you very much for writing me back so quickly.
I do not understand you completely.
If my current city is, say, producing 100 hammers, and I make:
1. One worker, then the city will make 125 hammers? Add another worker and I get 156 (1.25 x 125 hammers) hammers? Etc... It would seem to me that the 25% for Worker means that whenever a Worker is employed on a tile which is a hammer item, THAT item will now produce 1.25x more hammers.
2. (If Organized) I make a Lighthouse, then my city produces (100 x 2) 200 hammers...make a Courthouse, and then my city produces (200 x 2) 400 hammers, add-in the Factory (400 x 2) 800?
Or is it: My City is making 100 hammers, along comes the Lighthouse, and now I have 200 hammers, throw-in the Courthouse, and now I have 300 hammers, then the Factory, and now I have 400 hammers. Is that correct?
WOWZA in either case!
Please inform, as I am still confused a wee bit!
Thank you again!
JohnYoga
MrCynical
Deity
The bonuses listed above only apply while you are building the items in question. They're not a permanent effect.
"Worker" refers to the unit named "worker" whic improves tiles - it's nothing to do with city population using tiles. So if you have the 25% bonus, then you'd generated 125 hammers from a base of 100 while building a worker. If you build another worker, you'd still just get 25% boost, for 125 hammers output from 100 base.
Neither is correct. If you generate 100 hammers base, then you'll get 200 if you're building any of the lighthouse, courthouse or factory, and regardless of which of them you already have built. (OK the factory is actually more complicated because it does modify hammers, but I'll leave that for now).
You're mixing up the bonuses from traits (double production speed when building certain buildings or units) with normal hammer modifiers like forges and factories.
"Worker" refers to the unit named "worker" whic improves tiles - it's nothing to do with city population using tiles. So if you have the 25% bonus, then you'd generated 125 hammers from a base of 100 while building a worker. If you build another worker, you'd still just get 25% boost, for 125 hammers output from 100 base.
Neither is correct. If you generate 100 hammers base, then you'll get 200 if you're building any of the lighthouse, courthouse or factory, and regardless of which of them you already have built. (OK the factory is actually more complicated because it does modify hammers, but I'll leave that for now).
You're mixing up the bonuses from traits (double production speed when building certain buildings or units) with normal hammer modifiers like forges and factories.
MrCynical,
Thank you for writing me back so quickly. What you said here solves my understanding problem:
The bonuses listed above only apply while you are building the items in question. They're not a permanent effect.
Thanks again MrCynical!
JohnYoga
Thank you for writing me back so quickly. What you said here solves my understanding problem:
The bonuses listed above only apply while you are building the items in question. They're not a permanent effect.
Thanks again MrCynical!
JohnYoga
Hello Folks,
Thanks, in advance, for your quick help!
When your city screen says "It's too crowded!", I think that is a catch-all phrase which really means: "We are unhappy!". Is that correct? If so, then the Civer merely makes building,mine gems, etc., which create more smileys, and make culture slider higher to bring in more happiness.
When your city screen says "Starvation!" I guess you reduce the specialists, those becoming a special person, and stick them back in the city as a "normal citizen", by hitting the "-" button next to their icon? You would also hit the bread button to emphasize food, make more farms in the area, and/or hit the pop cap button?
Regards,
JohnYoga
Thanks, in advance, for your quick help!
When your city screen says "It's too crowded!", I think that is a catch-all phrase which really means: "We are unhappy!". Is that correct? If so, then the Civer merely makes building,mine gems, etc., which create more smileys, and make culture slider higher to bring in more happiness.
When your city screen says "Starvation!" I guess you reduce the specialists, those becoming a special person, and stick them back in the city as a "normal citizen", by hitting the "-" button next to their icon? You would also hit the bread button to emphasize food, make more farms in the area, and/or hit the pop cap button?
Regards,
JohnYoga
There are many causes of anger (including "it's too crowded", which just means that you get one more 
for each population). The only way to combat this is to add , with temples, luxury resources (like gems, gold, ivory...), religion, civics, lots of other stuff. When you have more unhappy faces than happy faces, you get unhappy citizens, who refuse to work BUT STILL require 2 
per turn. A good way to get rid of these is to 
them with slavery, make sure you're always at least 2 citizens so that the anger from the ing doesn't cause problems (if you have one angry citizen, and you whip two, you lose the from those two citizens but gain one from ing, so in all you lose one ).
Starvation is caused by your citizens using more than you are growing. Each citizen requires 2 per turn, and if you have more 
than 
, you lose that difference in food. All cities have a food storage, (it increases from having more food than you need), when it gets to a certain amount, you gain a population, which will require 2 , and add 1 . You can add to cancel out the by building Aqueducts, Hospitals, other buildings. Some buildings (forge) add . Forests in you city's fat cross (nearest 20 tiles) and some resources add . Jungles and floodplains add .
HOPE THAT HELPS!!
for each population). The only way to combat this is to add , with temples, luxury resources (like gems, gold, ivory...), religion, civics, lots of other stuff. When you have more unhappy faces than happy faces, you get unhappy citizens, who refuse to work BUT STILL require 2 per turn. A good way to get rid of these is to them with slavery, make sure you're always at least 2 citizens so that the anger from the ing doesn't cause problems (if you have one angry citizen, and you whip two, you lose the from those two citizens but gain one from ing, so in all you lose one ).Starvation is caused by your citizens using more
than you are growing. Each citizen requires 2 per turn, and if you have more than , you lose that difference in food. All cities have a food storage, (it increases from having more food than you need), when it gets to a certain amount, you gain a population, which will require 2 , and add 1 . You can add to cancel out the by building Aqueducts, Hospitals, other buildings. Some buildings (forge) add . Forests in you city's fat cross (nearest 20 tiles) and some resources add . Jungles and floodplains add . HOPE THAT HELPS!!
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