Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Frostyboy]

I understand what you're saying, but I think the computer could Still calculated the odds for us in numbers. In my case, the odds were about 6 : 6.75, which is way easier to judge than 6: 6 +1 first strike.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I understand what you're saying, but I think the computer could Still calculated the odds for us in numbers. In my case, the odds were about 6 : 6.75, which is way easier to judge than 6: 6 +1 first strike.

Aren't the combat odds a far more accurate way of describing the chances of victory?. In the case of a longbowman vs a swordsman on flat terrain, no bonuses, the game should tell you that the longbowman has a 56.8% chance of victory.

By the way, in a battle between a unit of strength 6 and a unit of strength 6.75, the unit of strength 6.75 has a 69.3% chance of victory. A unit of strength 12 has a 99.1% chance of victory, not a 66.7% chance of victory as you seem to expect.

 

[TheRealBitter]

Well lately I haven't had any problems with war, but I figured I should have some sort of military strategy in case someone does declare war on me or if I ever need to go into war with another civ. What would be the best idea military-wise, to make sure your civ is completely secure and that no matter what civ attacks, you are prepared?

Up until now I have just been producing a ton of military units of all sorts, and I keep hearing about ways to boost them up a bit without having to build so many in one city. Any advice? Thanks.



Bitter.

 

[Frostyboy]

Aren't the combat odds a far more accurate way of describing the chances of victory?. In the case of a longbowman vs a swordsman on flat terrain, no bonuses, the game should tell you that the longbowman has a 56.8% chance of victory.

By the way, in a battle between a unit of strength 6 and a unit of strength 6.75, the unit of strength 6.75 has a 69.3% chance of victory. A unit of strength 12 has a 99.1% chance of victory, not a 66.7% chance of victory as you seem to expect.

Well, thanks for the answer. But still in my game it says 6 to 6 regarding the swordsman vs the longbowman, nothing else.

How did you calculate the longbowmans winning%
Could you also explain how a Str 12 (e.g Curassier) has a 99,1% of winning against a Str 6 (swordsman). Thanks

 

[Roland Johansen]

Well, thanks for the answer. But still in my game it says 6 to 6 regarding the swordsman vs the longbowman, nothing else.

How did you calculate the longbowmans winning%
Could you also explain how a Str 12 (e.g Curassier) has a 99,1% of winning against a Str 6 (swordsman). Thanks

One of the early versions of the game didn't have the combat odds with a percentage of victory. It was added with one of the first patches. Maybe you haven't patched the game? Patching is a process that you should do with any and all of the games that you buy. Bugs are fixed and nice game elements are added in patches.

I've added a screenshot of how it should look in the game once you have the latest version of the game. You can view the odds in the lower left corner. You can get these odds by selecting your unit and holding your mouse pointer over the enemy while pressing the Alt-button.

The combat odds can be calculated by hand if you understand exactly how combat works (it's explained in that article that I linked in my first post of our conversation) and if you know a bit about probability theory. It's not too hard if you've had the necessary level of math.

I think I can give you an idea why a unit twice as strong will very likely (99.1% chance) kill a unit twice as weak (strength 2 vs strength 1, strength 4 vs strength 2, strength 12 vs strength 6). Combat consists of several rounds where units can hit eachother. During a round of combat, one of the two units will always be damaged and the other won't, but the stronger unit is more likely to score a hit. (During a first strike round only the unit with the first strike can score a hit, the other unit can't.) When the stronger unit scores a hit, then it will do a lot more damage than the weaker one will inflict when it were to score a hit.
Combat ends when one of the two units is left with 0 hitpoints.

In this case, where unit A is twice as strong as unit B, unit A will inflict 28 hitpoints per turn and kill unit A with 4 successful hits (units have 100 hitpoints) and unit B will inflict 14 hitpoints per turn and kill unit B with 8 successful hits. The chance that unit A hits is 2 in 3 or around 66.7% chance. The chance that unit B hits is 1 in 3 or close to 33.3% chance. Thus the weaker unit has to hit the stronger a lot more to kill it and the chance to actually score a hit is a lot smaller. The chance that this occurs is pretty small.

It's the equivalent of throwing a 6-sided die until one of the following results have happened:
1) You've had a result of 1,2,3 or 4 four times. (example 3,2,5,1,4)
2) You've had a result of 5 or 6 eight times.

You'll see that option 1 will almost always occur earlier.

Combat Odds.JPG

 

[Sisiutil]

Well lately I haven't had any problems with war, but I figured I should have some sort of military strategy in case someone does declare war on me or if I ever need to go into war with another civ. What would be the best idea military-wise, to make sure your civ is completely secure and that no matter what civ attacks, you are prepared?

Up until now I have just been producing a ton of military units of all sorts, and I keep hearing about ways to boost them up a bit without having to build so many in one city. Any advice? Thanks.



Bitter.

Sounds to me like you're doing things the right way, frankly--especially if it's rare for the AI to declare war on you. Usually they sniff out any weakness and pounce.

If you don't want to warmonger, the best thing you can do is protect yourself. That means building many units. Now if you're not fighting much, they won't be receiving many promotions; that means that upgrading units is not worthwhile. You're better off deleting old, obsolete ones and replacing them.

It is a good idea to have one city churning out units. If you can get an early unit up to Level 4 by fighting barbarians, you can build the Heroic Epic in that city, making military builds cheaper. Choose a city with very good production, modify its tiles to make it even better (farms, mines, watermills, and workshops; no cottages), and have it churning out units. If it's a coastal city, it can build ships, too.

To defend against AI aggression, have several siege units around--Catapults, Cannon, Artillery. Use these to soften up a stack that the AI throws at you. Back them up with a good attacking unit. Mounted units are very good for "active defense"; they're pretty strong and mobile, and if you throw enough siege weapons at the stack, the mounted counter units should be too weak to pose much of a threat. It's still a good idea to have some other defenders around, though--as the game marches on, melee units, Longbowmen, Rifles, Infantry, and Tanks are my favourites for this task.

The AI likes low-hanging fruit and will probably attack you at the spot that's nearest to them, so focus your defenses there. Border cities and coastal cities also need defense. Any interior cities can be defended by a single, obsolete unit. If you pay close attention to diplomacy, you'll probably know when you're going to be attacked, and if you get to know the AI well enough, you'll probably know where.

Hope this helps!

 

[TheRealBitter]

Sounds to me like you're doing things the right way, frankly--especially if it's rare for the AI to declare war on you. Usually they sniff out any weakness and pounce.

If you don't want to warmonger, the best thing you can do is protect yourself. That means building many units. Now if you're not fighting much, they won't be receiving many promotions; that means that upgrading units is not worthwhile. You're better off deleting old, obsolete ones and replacing them.

It is a good idea to have one city churning out units. If you can get an early unit up to Level 4 by fighting barbarians, you can build the Heroic Epic in that city, making military builds cheaper. Choose a city with very good production, modify its tiles to make it even better (farms, mines, watermills, and workshops; no cottages), and have it churning out units. If it's a coastal city, it can build ships, too.

To defend against AI aggression, have several siege units around--Catapults, Cannon, Artillery. Use these to soften up a stack that the AI throws at you. Back them up with a good attacking unit. Mounted units are very good for "active defense"; they're pretty strong and mobile, and if you throw enough siege weapons at the stack, the mounted counter units should be too weak to pose much of a threat. It's still a good idea to have some other defenders around, though--as the game marches on, melee units, Longbowmen, Rifles, Infantry, and Tanks are my favourites for this task.

The AI likes low-hanging fruit and will probably attack you at the spot that's nearest to them, so focus your defenses there. Border cities and coastal cities also need defense. Any interior cities can be defended by a single, obsolete unit. If you pay close attention to diplomacy, you'll probably know when you're going to be attacked, and if you get to know the AI well enough, you'll probably know where.

Hope this helps!

Thank you very much. That helped me a ton. I appreciate your detailed response. Now I have a better idea of how to manage my military and what to look out for.



Bitter.

 

[Sisiutil]

Thank you very much. That helped me a ton. I appreciate your detailed response. Now I have a better idea of how to manage my military and what to look out for.



Bitter.

You're welcome. I have a couple of things to add, if you don't mind.

Your power ranking is one of the main ways the AI judges whether or not it should attack you; the weaker you look, the more likely they'll declare war. The primary component of the power rating is units. Besides the number of units, quality also helps. Each unit not only has a strength value, it also has a hidden "number of soldiers" value. The more modern the unit, the more "soldiers" comprising it, generally. As I understand it, then, a Longbowman counts larger in your power rating than a Swordsman, even though they have the same strength rating (6). So modernizing units helps.

Other things that factor into your power rating are your tech level (especially your power "potential"--what units you could build), barracks, drydocks, and even city walls, though none of these count as much as the units themselves. One thing that is not factored in, surprisingly, is promotions.

So if you look weak, not only should you build units, you should also bee-line to military techs and build barracks and drydocks in the cities that lack them. Every little bit helps.

 

[Prince David]

Is it possible to direct which city a chop bonus will go to? The square that I want to shop is 2 squares from a smaller city, three from a larger and outside of the fat cross of both. Right now it is targeted to the larger city and I want it to go to the smaller. What can I do to switch it?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Is it possible to direct which city a chop bonus will go to? The square that I want to shop is 2 squares from a smaller city, three from a larger and outside of the fat cross of both. Right now it is targeted to the larger city and I want it to go to the smaller. What can I do to switch it?

I don't think you can do anything if the tile is outside the workable area of both cities.

If the tile is within the fat cross of two cities, then the chop hammers will go to the city that can presently use the tile. If a tile is within the fat cross of two cities, then you can switch it from being used by the one city to being used by the other city. So you can effectively control which city will get the chop hammers.

But in this case, the tile is outside the fat cross of both cities, so you cannot do anything. There is probably some formula based on distance from both cities (probably using the same distance formula used for cultural expansion, range of air missions and other parts of the game). When the distance is equal, then there probably is some order based on the tiles relative position towards both cities. Something like, if there's a city to the north and a city to the south at an equal distance, then the hammers will go to the city to the north (something like that). I haven't bothered to find out the exact mechanic as you can always check which city will get the hammers by selecting a worker, holding the SHIFT button while moving it to the forest tile and then hovering the mouse over the chop command. You can cancel the order as long as you hold the SHIFT button.

Addendum:

Distance formula: [ MAX(horizontal distance, vertical distance) + 1/2 MIN(horizontal distance, vertical distance) ] where the brackets [] mean that the term in between the brackets should be rounded down to the nearest integer value. This formula essentially counts a diagonal step as 1.5 horizontal or vertical steps. The first diagonal step counts as 1 and the second as 2 because of the effect of rounding down the outcome of the formula to the nearest integer.

Addendum 2:
In case you don't know: You get a reduction of the normal chopping value if the tile is outside the fat cross of your cities and an additional reduction if it is outside of the culture area of your civilization. So chopping these tiles is less efficient than chopping tiles inside the fat cross of cities and inside your culture area.

 

[UnlockPotential]

Since you probably get a few 'odd' questions...


Is it easy to play this game with a broken wrist? The wrist you always use?

 

[Roland Johansen]

Since you probably get a few 'odd' questions...


Is it easy to play this game with a broken wrist? The wrist you always use?

Ouch, that doesn't sound painful. I hope you'll recover quickly.

I've personally had problems with RSI in the wrist a few years ago and then taught myself to use the other hand for the mouse. It's a bit hard in the beginning, but you'll get used to it. You'll have to reverse the mouse buttons so that they're the same for your other hand (one of the settings for the mouse). Since this is not a game where you need quick reactions, it's not such a problem to play it with your other hand. You will be a bit slower of course and that might be a bit annoying when you start playing, but it's a thinking game and not a game of quick reactions. It's a bit inefficient to simultaneously use the shortcut keys, so you'll have to play the game completely with your mouse or continuously move your healthy hand from the mouse to the keyboard and back. Most players almost exclusively use the mouse anyway, so I don't think that's a big problem.

Good luck with recovering.

 

[Frostyboy]

Thanks for the answers Roland
I finished the article, and with the calculations, combat seem much easier to comprehend now.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Thanks for the answers Roland
I finished the article, and with the calculations, combat seem much easier to comprehend now.

Did you see the screenshot? Do you have a similar representation of the combat odds in your game? Do you have a patched game? It's very useful to be able to see the actual combat odds in the game.

 

[Lord Parkin]

But in this case, the tile is outside the fat cross of both cities, so you cannot do anything. There is probably some formula based on distance from both cities (probably using the same distance formula used for cultural expansion, range of air missions and other parts of the game). When the distance is equal, then there probably is some order based on the tiles relative position towards both cities. Something like, if there's a city to the north and a city to the south at an equal distance, then the hammers will go to the city to the north (something like that). I haven't bothered to find out the exact mechanic as you can always check which city will get the hammers by selecting a worker, holding the SHIFT button while moving it to the forest tile and then hovering the mouse over the chop command. You can cancel the order as long as you hold the SHIFT button.

I'm almost certain that if two cities are an equal distance from a forest tile, then the one that gets the yield of the chop is the city that was founded earliest. That's been my experience, anyway. If two cities were founded on the same turn, then the one that was founded first appears to get the chop yield.

Hope that helps.

 

[Gwynnja]

Is there a way to save a map and reload it with different game settings? Say I start a prince level, epic speed game as gandhi, but after exploring around I decide I would like to use the same map as a one city challenge monarch level, marathon speed game as Rameses? is this possible?

 

[Roland Johansen]

I'm almost certain that if two cities are an equal distance from a forest tile, then the one that gets the yield of the chop is the city that was founded earliest. That's been my experience, anyway. If two cities were founded on the same turn, then the one that was founded first appears to get the chop yield.

Hope that helps.

After some minor tests with the World Builder, I agree with Lord Parkin. For tiles outside of the fat cross of cities at equal distance to 2 or more cities, the chop yield seems to go to the oldest city. Even if the chopped forest tile is inside the fat cross of the younger city and outside the fat cross of the older city, the chop yield will still go to the older city.

 

[RulerOfDaPeople]

Wait, so you mean a city still gets the hammers from chopping forests that are not in any city's fat cross? I hope I understood that correctly... that would help me so much in the strategies I like to use.

 

[scienide09]

Wait, so you mean a city still gets the hammers from chopping forests that are not in any city's fat cross? I hope I understood that correctly... that would help me so much in the strategies I like to use.

Yes, but this has been the case for a while. Ever played an OCC game? As long as the forest is within your cultural boundaries, you'll get the hammers from the chop. In an OCC game, it's easy, as there's only one city to benefit from the extra hammers.

The trick is figuring out which of your cities will receive the hammers when they are equidistant from the forest, as Roland Johansen and Lord Parkin have shown.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Wait, so you mean a city still gets the hammers from chopping forests that are not in any city's fat cross? I hope I understood that correctly... that would help me so much in the strategies I like to use.

It still gets hammers, but when the forest is outside your cultural area, then you get less hammers and when the forest is far from your city centers, then you get less hammers. So all in all, it's a lot better to leave a forest outside your fat cross for the next city which you're going to build near that forest.

You can see the amount of hammers you're going to get when you give the chopping order.