Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Sisiutil]

wohoo! this thread is a lifesaver.

ok, so if you have a city specialized for research, what sort of improvements do you want to do to your tiles? I am not sure if more cottages or more factories are generally better.

I am thinking you would just want a general all purpose city with whatever wonders/buildings that let you make scientist citizens. But then again, I don't know

edit: oh, and another question, when your cultural boundaries start to munch into an opponents fat cross, they loose production and you may get some resources, but other than that, you don't get the gold off a town or anything, right?

Tile improvements around a science city are primarily cottages, to maximize its commerce output; the science slider then determines how much of that commerce gets converted into research.

However, you also need to have some tiles providing additional food so you can run science specialists, which will usually provide more research than a citizen working a town, especially under the Representation civic. Furthermore, you'll need some production tiles in order to get vital infrastructure built (a library, university, observatory, and Oxford University--and potentially wonders such as the Great Library and Sankore University). Keep in mind that you can swap your citizens around between different tiles and being specialists based upon what the city is doing. For example, when I'm building the Great Library or Oxford University, I'll often put my scientists to work on production tiles to accelerate the build.

Claiming tiles from a rival civ depends upon their location. If the rival city is close enough so that your fat cross overlaps with theirs, you can indeed gain from their tile improvements such as mature cottages. If the tiles you claim are outside of any city's fat cross, however, the benefits are usually limited to resources and irrigation paths. If you claim enough tiles from a neighbour, you may want to consider founding a city in their midst so you can take advantage of them--and create more cultural pressure.

 

[a4phantom]

If you claim enough tiles from a neighbour, you may want to consider founding a city in their midst so you can take advantage of them--and create more cultural pressure.

And of course spread your state religion to that city ASAP and starting building cultural buildings. Still, it seems unlikely to me for a new city to exert much cultural pressure. I suppose in the early game, or if an area is being resettled after the old cities have been razed.

 

[pkp]

Tile improvements around a science city are primarily cottages, to maximize its commerce output; the science slider then determines how much of that commerce gets converted into research.

However, you also need to have some tiles providing additional food so you can run science specialists, which will usually provide more research than a citizen working a town, especially under the Representation civic. Furthermore, you'll need some production tiles in order to get vital infrastructure built (a library, university, observatory, and Oxford University--and potentially wonders such as the Great Library and Sankore University). Keep in mind that you can swap your citizens around between different tiles and being specialists based upon what the city is doing. For example, when I'm building the Great Library or Oxford University, I'll often put my scientists to work on production tiles to accelerate the build.

Claiming tiles from a rival civ depends upon their location. If the rival city is close enough so that your fat cross overlaps with theirs, you can indeed gain from their tile improvements such as mature cottages. If the tiles you claim are outside of any city's fat cross, however, the benefits are usually limited to resources and irrigation paths. If you claim enough tiles from a neighbour, you may want to consider founding a city in their midst so you can take advantage of them--and create more cultural pressure.

holy crap, this will revolutionize my game! I bought Civ IV online so i never got the manual. Ok, next question, do forests only grow on previously chopped tiles? if not then what tiles will they grow on. I am asking because I am thinking of trying to cultivate forests in all the tiles outside of my fat crosses. I have never tried that before because I thought all improvements benefited the city all the time but I thought the worked tiles just helped a little more. Oh, and if I have even one worker set to automate will he go and chop down my trees for a farm or something thinking I might build a city there some day? also, what steps are more likely to make trees grow?

 

[chandlerdion]

Can anyone tell me how to actually make the changes on xml? I understand the rules on making the changes, but when i try to, for example, add traits to, say, Washington of America, the system allowed me to highlight that section in the appropriate file but when I try to type something, nothing happens.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot. I was an "expert" on modding in Civ3, but I've never been able to do it in civ4. It would be really really cool if someone wrote a book called "Civ4 Modding for Dummies" lol.

Dion out.

 

[Roland Johansen]

wohoo! this thread is a lifesaver.

Welcome to civfanatics!

I see that you've been send her by Cabert who already gave an excellent answer to some of your questions about city management. Ask your beginners questions here. We will try to provide the answers as well as we can.

I agree with Sisiutils answer except on the quoted detail below. You can read a lot of discussion on this forum about a so called 'specialist economy' versus a 'cottage economy'. Both have their advantages, but I prefer the cottage economy plus a so called 'Great Person Farm'.

However, you also need to have some tiles providing additional food so you can run science specialists, which will usually provide more research than a citizen working a town, especially under the Representation civic.

There are many who disagree with you and would say that cottages are more efficient. I don't want to start an argument here, but I just wanted to say this so that pkp doesn't read your statement as an absolute truth.

I agree with the rest of your post, especially the part where you say that even a science city needs some production. I've seen claims about full specialisation of cities with only cottages and that will of course mean that you can barely build infrastructure.

 

[a4phantom]

Can anyone tell me how to actually make the changes on xml? I understand the rules on making the changes, but when i try to, for example, add traits to, say, Washington of America, the system allowed me to highlight that section in the appropriate file but when I try to type something, nothing happens.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot. I was an "expert" on modding in Civ3, but I've never been able to do it in civ4. It would be really really cool if someone wrote a book called "Civ4 Modding for Dummies" lol.

Dion out.

What editor are you using?

 

[Roland Johansen]

holy crap, this will revolutionize my game! I bought Civ IV online so i never got the manual. Ok, next question, do forests only grow on previously chopped tiles? if not then what tiles will they grow on.

No, they grow on tiles horizontally or vertically adjacent to tiles which contain forests. Tiles with roads have a lessened chance to get 'new' forests. Improved tiles can't get 'new' forests.

I am asking because I am thinking of trying to cultivate forests in all the tiles outside of my fat crosses. I have never tried that before because I thought all improvements benefited the city all the time but I thought the worked tiles just helped a little more.

It's not worth it. The forests grow back too slow. And you actually don't want to waste many tiles that are not used by any of your cities. Except of course when you have some utopia ideas of parks inbetween your cities. But that has nothing to do with a strategy to win this game and is purely personal fun.

Oh, and if I have even one worker set to automate will he go and chop down my trees for a farm or something thinking I might build a city there some day? also, what steps are more likely to make trees grow?

There is an option in the ingame Options menu that stops workers from chopping forests. But that of course means that you'll have to manually chop the forests that you want to be chopped.

But then again, anyone who plays this game at a high difficulty level will tell you that it is more efficient to control the workers actions manually.

Can anyone tell me how to actually make the changes on xml? I understand the rules on making the changes, but when i try to, for example, add traits to, say, Washington of America, the system allowed me to highlight that section in the appropriate file but when I try to type something, nothing happens.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot. I was an "expert" on modding in Civ3, but I've never been able to do it in civ4. It would be really really cool if someone wrote a book called "Civ4 Modding for Dummies" lol.

Dion out.

Probably you have viewed the file. What you need is a text editor. Windows has a very simple text editor called wordpad. You can open the file with wordpad and then change things. (select file, right click, open with, choose program, scroll to wordpad, click). There are probably far better xml-editors out there. If you plan to do a lot of editing, it might be interesting to find one. Or ask in the Creation and Customization forum for a link to a good editor.

Don't overwrite the files in the base game but create a mod or place the files in customassets.

There are some Tutorials in the Creation and Customization forum too. You might want to check them out.

Oh, and of course, welcome to civfanatics!

 

[Sisiutil]

There are many who disagree with you and would say that cottages are more efficient. I don't want to start an argument here, but I just wanted to say this so that pkp doesn't read your statement as an absolute truth.

Granted. Usually the best thing to do is to carefully compare the results of cottage versus specialist. Mind you, a specialist will generate a lot more commerce/research than an immature cottage; but when the cottage grows to a town, and you have Printing Press and are running Free Speech to maximize its yield, the inverse is usually true. So there's an opportunity cost to working cottages as opposed to running specialists.

I myself like to do a mix. Flood plains and riverside grasslands get cottages and get worked, since they get an immediate +1 commerce boost. Non-riverside grasslands have their cottages worked late in the game, when Emancipation will accelerate their growth.

Remember that you also want to run specialists to accelerate the production of Great Scientists out of this city. However you use them (Academies, lightbulbing, settling) Great Scientists pay out additional research.

As for CE/SE, I myself tend to run a hybrid economy in most games, and even within some cities, the science city being the prime example. My capital usually fills this role and has the most cottages and produces the most commerce (with the exception of a shrine/Wall Street city) and Great People.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Granted. Usually the best thing to do is to carefully compare the results of cottage versus specialist. Mind you, a specialist will generate a lot more commerce/research than an immature cottage; but when the cottage grows to a town, and you have Printing Press and are running Free Speech to maximize its yield, the inverse is usually true. So there's an opportunity cost to working cottages as opposed to running specialists.

I myself like to do a mix. Flood plains and riverside grasslands get cottages and get worked, since they get an immediate +1 commerce boost. Non-riverside grasslands have their cottages worked late in the game, when Emancipation will accelerate their growth.

Remember that you also want to run specialists to accelerate the production of Great Scientists out of this city. However you use them (Academies, lightbulbing, settling) Great Scientists pay out additional research.

As for CE/SE, I myself tend to run a hybrid economy in most games, and even within some cities, the science city being the prime example. My capital usually fills this role and has the most cottages and produces the most commerce (with the exception of a shrine/Wall Street city) and Great People.

I've seen a thread that ran over many many pages where people actually got angry debating whether cottages or specialists were 'better'. I don't want to see that happen here. I will just say one thing on the above argument. You compared the output of a cottage with the output of a scientist. That's not completely correct. The cottage also has a base terrain output (say 2 food in case of grassland) while the scientist does not produce those 2 food. However you look at it, the cottage economy has 2 food that it can use for something else.

We can both use complicate calculations to show that one or the other is better, but that doesn't belong here. I just wanted to say that I disagree with the original statement.

By the way, I agree with the remark that the Great Scientists and other Great People improve the efficiency of a specialist economy a lot above the basic output of the specialists working in the cities.

 

[Sisiutil]

I've seen a thread that ran over many many pages where people actually got angry debating whether cottages or specialists were 'better'. I don't want to see that happen here. I will just say one thing on the above argument. You compared the output of a cottage with the output of a scientist. That's not completely correct. The cottage also has a base terrain output (say 2 food in case of grassland) while the scientist does not produce those 2 food. However you look at it, the cottage economy has 2 food that it can use for something else.

We can both use complicate calculations to show that one or the other is better, but that doesn't belong here. I just wanted to say that I disagree with the original statement.

And I agree with your disagreement.

For me, the choice is usually situational. Sometimes in the game my choices are more short-term than long-term. When the tech race is tight and/or I need a specific tech ASAP for a significant tactical advantage, I'll often pull citizens off of hamlets and even villages if a scientist specialist gives me more beakers (which they sometimes do) in the short run and shave a turn or more off the research time. I'll usually go back and reassign them to the cottaged tiles later.

 

[chandlerdion]

What editor are you using?

Well, thanks to Roland's extremely helpful advice, I now know that I needed an editor in the first place. I took his advice and tried the wordpad editor on my system (I also discovered an actual xml editor on this computer too...WHO KNEW?..LOL).

Okay so I went into wordpad to make my changes. I added the six other traits (aggressive, creative, expansive, industrious, philosophical, and spiritual) to Washington (who is already financial and organized). Making sure that I obeyed the "rules" and typed my additions EXACTLY as the original traits were typed. Basically I copied and pasted what was already there and just replaced the word "_FINANCIAL" with "_AGGRESSIVE"

Now before you guys start lecturing me, I know this will affect the "game balance". I don't really care at this point. I'm trying to create a "superleader" for a special mod/scenario I've been working on in my head.

Anyway, after I did this, I saved the file to "customassets" and then tried to test it in a real game. I tried loading a mod, I tried loading a game and searching for it on the menus to the left of the screen. I could not find the file I had created so that I could test it. When I brought up a game and selected Washington as my leader choice, I could not discern any difference, as though the game did not recognize my changes. What step/s am I missing?

And by the way, Roland. I've been reading creation and customization forum posts for hours now and while there are several tuturials on WHAT to type and WHERE. There was nothing that told me that I needed a seperate "editor" to actually MAKE the changes. So thank you so much for getting me a step closer to my goal. So uh....what's the next step? (smile).

 

[Roland Johansen]

And I agree with your disagreement.

For me, the choice is usually situational. Sometimes in the game my choices are more short-term than long-term. When the tech race is tight and/or I need a specific tech ASAP for a significant tactical advantage, I'll often pull citizens off of hamlets and even villages if a scientist specialist gives me more beakers (which they sometimes do) in the short run and shave a turn or more off the research time. I'll usually go back and reassign them to the cottaged tiles later.

Is this in cities with a food surplus so that you don't need the food from the cottages? Or do you temporarily starve the population? (just curious)

Do you usually build the Pyramids and use Representation? I usually don't build the Pyramids (and normally don't build many wonders in general), it's a bit too expensive for me at that point in the game. Especially if I don't have stone. A 6 science scientist is quite nice to use.

Have you ever gone for a full specialist based economy with barely any cottages.

 

[chandlerdion]

Is this in cities with a food surplus so that you don't need the food from the cottages?


Food from cottages? Is this in the warlords expansion (which I don't have)? I thought only GOLD came from cottages. How do you get food from cottages?

[maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say]. Again I'm new here so forgive me for sounding like an idiot.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Well, thanks to Roland's extremely helpful advice, I now know that I needed an editor in the first place. I took his advice and tried the wordpad editor on my system (I also discovered an actual xml editor on this computer too...WHO KNEW?..LOL).

Okay so I went into wordpad to make my changes. I added the six other traits (aggressive, creative, expansive, industrious, philosophical, and spiritual) to Washington (who is already financial and organized). Making sure that I obeyed the "rules" and typed my additions EXACTLY as the original traits were typed. Basically I copied and pasted what was already there and just replaced the word "_FINANCIAL" with "_AGGRESSIVE"

Now before you guys start lecturing me, I know this will affect the "game balance". I don't really care at this point. I'm trying to create a "superleader" for a special mod/scenario I've been working on in my head.

Anyway, after I did this, I saved the file to "customassets" and then tried to test it in a real game. I tried loading a mod, I tried loading a game and searching for it on the menus to the left of the screen. I could not find the file I had created so that I could test it. When I brought up a game and selected Washington as my leader choice, I could not discern any difference, as though the game did not recognize my changes. What step/s am I missing?

And by the way, Roland. I've been reading creation and customization forum posts for hours now and while there are several tuturials on WHAT to type and WHERE. There was nothing that told me that I needed a seperate "editor" to actually MAKE the changes. So thank you so much for getting me a step closer to my goal. So uh....what's the next step? (smile).

I can imagine that you can't find the right information there. Some 'tutorials' are quite advanced, but they can tell you a lot more than I can. Soon, you'll be asking me questions that I can't answer because I have only done some small changes to xml-files, nothing more.

Lets assume that the changes made to the file were correct as you seem convinced that they are. I also took a look at the file that you have been modding and I think that it wouldn't cause any strange problems when you add the other traits to a leader.

The problem is probably related to the directory structure of your 'mod' or to be precise the lack of directory structure.
The file that you wanted to change is located in ...\Assets\XML\Civilizations\ and called CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
If you want every game to load with the changes, then you need to place the modded file in CustomAssets\xml\civilizations\

If you want to create a true mod, then you need to create a directory, say Chandlerdionmod in the directory Mods. Then you place the modded file in Mods\Chandlerdionmod\XML\Civilizations\ (you need to create the directories XML and Civilizations). Now you have created your own mod and it will be available ingame by clicking 'advanced' and then 'load a mod' and you pick Chandlerdionmod.

Note that you can create mods for the basic civilization game and for the expansion pack warlords. The xml files of the warlords game are different and warlords has its own customassets and mods directory. Don't create a warlords mod in vanilla civ4 or a vanilla civ4 mod in warlords.

It's preferable to create a true mod. It means that you can run seperate mods next to eachother and still go back to the original game. The customassets xml-files override the original game xml-files. I've also heard some negative stability related problems with customassets changes, but I don't know if they're true.

Civilization 3 modding was more accessible with its editor, but civilization 4 editing has more potential as far more things can be changed. For instance adding 'plague events', 'enabling MAD for nukes', 'modding the AI'. But it's not easy to mod such things and I wouldn't know how to do it.

Good luck modding.

Food from cottages? Is this in the warlords expansion (which I don't have)? I thought only GOLD came from cottages. How do you get food from cottages?

[maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say]. Again I'm new here so forgive me for sounding like an idiot.

The food is not added by the cottages, but the base terrain already provides the food. So if you compare the output of a scientist with the output of a cottage, then you should also take into account that for instance a cottage grassland tile also produces 2 food from the grassland next to the commerce output of the cottage.

 

[pkp]

ok, next noob question: (and this one is specific to a game I am in right now) I am playing a game on the map with a random number of random continents. I got stuck on a little island with Alex. Everybody else got stuck together on a huge continent. it's aboout 1850 AD now and I have FINALLY killed off Alex. but now I am way behind in everything while all the other players that I just now met have a buttload more techs than me. What is the best way to proceed? I am thinking the space race is my only option. I may try to beeline a way advanced tech and trade it to everybody to try to catch up. does anybody have some general guidlines for this?

 

[chandlerdion]

I can imagine that you can't find the right information there. Some 'tutorials' are quite advanced, but they can tell you a lot more than I can. Soon, you'll be asking me questions that I can't answer because I have only done some small changes to xml-files, nothing more.

Lets assume that the changes made to the file were correct as you seem convinced that they are. I also took a look at the file that you have been modding and I think that it wouldn't cause any strange problems when you add the other traits to a leader.

The problem is probably related to the directory structure of your 'mod' or to be precise the lack of directory structure.
The file that you wanted to change is located in ...\Assets\XML\Civilizations\ and called CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml
If you want every game to load with the changes, then you need to place the modded file in CustomAssets\xml\civilizations\

If you want to create a true mod, then you need to create a directory, say Chandlerdionmod in the directory Mods. Then you place the modded file in Mods\Chandlerdionmod\XML\Civilizations\ (you need to create the directories XML and Civilizations). Now you have created your own mod and it will be available ingame by clicking 'advanced' and then 'load a mod' and you pick Chandlerdionmod.




Good luck modding.




The food is not added by the cottages, but the base terrain already provides the food. So if you compare the output of a scientist with the output of a cottage, then you should also take into account that for instance a cottage grassland tile also produces 2 food from the grassland next to the commerce output of the cottage.

Rowland, my friend, you are alot smarter than you give yourself credit for. And you are right, I WAS on the road to asking your questions you probably could not answer. You were also correct about my "directory structure" or lack thereof. I make the changes you suggest and go from there.

And I promise, I'll direct my more detailed and complicated questions to those expert modders in "creation and customization" and just make sure they "tell it to me like a 5-year-old".

Thank you again.

 

[chandlerdion]

ok, next noob question: (and this one is specific to a game I am in right now) I am playing a game on the map with a random number of random continents. I got stuck on a little island with Alex. Everybody else got stuck together on a huge continent. it's aboout 1850 AD now and I have FINALLY killed off Alex. but now I am way behind in everything while all the other players that I just now met have a buttload more techs than me. What is the best way to proceed? I am thinking the space race is my only option. I may try to beeline a way advanced tech and trade it to everybody to try to catch up. does anybody have some general guidlines for this?

I've heard that the game cheats in the late stage. While I can't confirm this for certain, I find it highly suspicious that all of a sudden at a certain point in the game, other civs start advancing and learning techs at a lightning pace. And I must say, it is VERY difficult to resist the urge to go into the in-game worldbuilder and add the techs I need or remove them from my foes (call it "stealing technology' without an actual spy). Not that i would suggest such a thing of course..lol. But I'ts really really really hard to resist. [particularly if you, like me, are NOT a "game purist".

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Bombing Ships in Port

The Civ 3 expansions made it possible to attack ships in port with bombers and other ships, using the bombard function. Is this still possible in Civ 4, or is a ship basically invulnerable in a city unless that city?

It would suck if you couldn't Pearl Harbor attacks.

 

[a4phantom]

Semi-Newbie thoughts on cottages and specialists:
1. If you run a specialist economy in the early game, it's probably hard to switch because you don't have mature towns late game.
2. If you run a pure cottage economy (as I do) you don't produce a lot of Great People . I suppose you can still load up on specialists in your Nat'l Epic city, although you probably won't be running Caste System.
3. Financial civs gain a lot from cottage economies and (as far as I know) nothing from specialist economies.

 

[a4phantom]

Bombing Ships in Port

The Civ 3 expansions made it possible to attack ships in port with bombers and other ships, using the bombard function. Is this still possible in Civ 4, or is a ship basically invulnerable in a city unless that city?

It would suck if you couldn't Pearl Harbor attacks.

You can't. Bombard doesn't hurt units, and bombing can't sink ships. I don't think it even damages ships in port, but I can't swear to that. It's one of Civ4's few steps backwards.