Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[IAM]

I also prioritize buildings railroads that traverse my empire, especially on large maps, to facilitate moving troops to the front faster.

 

[vogtmurr]

First a question:

Can you abandon cities, and how?

This is old news, but whenever I want to abandon a city because it is in an untenable position, I offer it as a gift to one of my potential allies, especially when my enemies are about to conquer it.

This is old news, but whenever I want to abandon a city because it is in an untenable position, I offer it as a gift to one of my potential allies, especially when my enemies are about to conquer it.

And what's cool about that is unless you have open borders with the recipient, the units trapped there get immediately transported to the comparative safety of your own frontier, which can save your ass sometime. Only thing is, it doesn't seem to credit your relationship with the recipient of the city. Like, there's no "+1 you gave us a city to rule", anymore than gifting a unit would.

 

[6K Man]

I can never get the right people to accept my useless cities. Often they're redded out.

 

[Bunions]

Two questions:

1) The first strike promotion: this lets your unit deal damage to the other unit first right? So if I have a archer with 1 first strike promotion versus a archer with 1 strength promotion on a grass terrain I'll likely win? This makes first strike promotions better than strength promotion for most cases and units right? I made a bunch of first strike promotion submarines with 4-6 first strike or something and they all died to strength units. Lol.

2) I think I remember tanks could do collateral damage that makes them very powerful to whoever attacks with their unit of stacks first. Collateral damage has been removed from tank units and its collateral promotion is now barely useful in the latest patch right? I read the 3.17 patch update changes and didn't see anything about removing the tanks collateral damage. Just making sure I understand this right...I actually like it that collateral damage has been removed.

 

[henrebotha]

Two questions:

1) The first strike promotion: this lets your unit deal damage to the other unit first right? So if I have a archer with 1 first strike promotion versus a archer with 1 strength promotion on a grass terrain I'll likely win? This makes first strike promotions better than strength promotion for most cases and units right? I made a bunch of first strike promotion submarines with 4-6 first strike or something and they all died to strength units. Lol.

2) I think I remember tanks could do collateral damage that makes them very powerful to whoever attacks with their unit of stacks first. Collateral damage has been removed from tank units and its collateral promotion is now barely useful in the latest patch right? I read the 3.17 patch update changes and didn't see anything about removing the tanks collateral damage. Just making sure I understand this right...I actually like it that collateral damage has been removed.

1) You must remember to distinguish between first strikes and first strike chances. The latter has (we think) a 50% chance of happening. In either case, it is possible (I'm not sure, don't know the math) that even after your unit deals a first strike hit, the enemy still has enough health left that, combined with its defensive bonuses, it's more powerful than your unit. In fact, people on here generally dislike the Drill (first strike) promotions. They only get good once you get to Drill IV; and you could do a lot better with four promotions than Drill I-IV. (For instance, Combat I-III plus Shock/Formation/Cover/whatever is a lot better...)

2) Collateral damage has been removed from tanks. The collateral promotion should actually be disabled as it has absolutely no effect.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Two questions:

1) The first strike promotion: this lets your unit deal damage to the other unit first right? So if I have a archer with 1 first strike promotion versus a archer with 1 strength promotion on a grass terrain I'll likely win?

This is not a logical conclusion and it also happens to be untrue.

This makes first strike promotions better than strength promotion for most cases and units right?

No.

I made a bunch of first strike promotion submarines with 4-6 first strike or something and they all died to strength units. Lol.

I would expect that to happen.

If a unit has more first strikes than another, then it has a chance to hit the enemy unit a few times without the chance to be hit itself. After those free hits, the normal battle starts. A unit needs quite a lot of hits to kill an enemy unit and the number of hits and the chance to score a hit depend on the ratio of the strengths of both units. A higher strength unit has the advantage that it needs less hits to kill an enemy and has a higher chance to win a battle round and score such a hit.

If you analyse the battle simulation mathematically, then in most cases the combat promotion is better than the drill promotion and that is especially true for the first few drill promotions (drill IV is a great promotion by itself, drill I is almost useless). Only in the following situations is the drill promotion better:

Drill promotions (which give first strikes) are good in situations where the unit receiving the drill promotions already has an advantage over the opposing units. This can be because the drill promoted unit is benefiting from a significant defence bonus or because the opposing units have been severely bombed or because there is a technological advantage for the drill promoted unit. In these cases, the first strikes can allow the drill promoted unit to defeat the opposing unit while barely losing any hit points itself. This way a single drill promoted unit doesn't need to heal between battles and can defeat several enemy units during a single turn.

2) I think I remember tanks could do collateral damage that makes them very powerful to whoever attacks with their unit of stacks first. Collateral damage has been removed from tank units and its collateral promotion is now barely useful in the latest patch right? I read the 3.17 patch update changes and didn't see anything about removing the tanks collateral damage. Just making sure I understand this right...I actually like it that collateral damage has been removed.

Yes, collateral damage was removed from units that don't have a native collateral damage effect, but the useless promotion is still available.

The unofficial patch fixes this situation. There are 2 versions of the unofficial patch:

Version 1: The availability of the promotion for tanks is removed.
Version 2: The promotion allows a minor collateral damage effect that is significantly less than the effect of the collateral damage of artillery type units.

And of course, welcome to civfanatics!

 

[Supr49er]

Archers are better city/hill defenders than attackers.
Give them defensive promotions.

Welcome to the Forums Bunions.

 

[henrebotha]

How does inter-player diplomacy/trading work in PBEM?

 

[Bunions]

Ah okay thanks for the answers. I forgot to asked this too, but has anyone uploaded a savegame of theirs? I would really like to know what to do if you control non of the religions founded in the game, but still get enough gold for decent research rate/expansion rate.

Unless I have a holy city with it's holy building to generate gold it seems I just cannot expand as much as the AI without hurting tech research. A build order I usually do is: find a religion, spread it so it's a major world religion, build a wonder that generates great prophet birthrates, and wait to build the holy building for gold. I am able to play on prince difficulty doing this...gold gold gold. Even if I build more cottages than the AI's it still seems I would be one less stronger economically.

 

[PieceOfMind]

1) You must remember to distinguish between first strikes and first strike chances. The latter has (we think) a 50% chance of happening. In either case, it is possible (I'm not sure, don't know the math) that even after your unit deals a first strike hit, the enemy still has enough health left that, combined with its defensive bonuses, it's more powerful than your unit. In fact, people on here generally dislike the Drill (first strike) promotions. They only get good once you get to Drill IV; and you could do a lot better with four promotions than Drill I-IV. (For instance, Combat I-III plus Shock/Formation/Cover/whatever is a lot better....

Since you asked (sort of)...

First strike chances don't necessarily have a 50% chance of becoming first strikes, though it can very reasonably be thought of that way. It's also fairly reasonable to describe each first strike chance as 0.5 first strikes.

Basically at the start of battle, if n is the number of first strike chances, then you get rand(0,n) of them converted into first strikes, and these are added to the other first strikes. So for example, a unit with 0-1 first strikes (ie. 1 first strike chance) has a 50:50 chance of having 0 or 1 first strike. A unit with 4-7 first strikes (4 guaranteed first strikes and 3 first strike chances), has a 25% chance of 4, a 25% chance of 5, a 25% chance of 6, and a 25% chance of 7 first strikes in battle.

Then when the battle starts, if a unit has N first strikes, then in the first N rounds of battle that unit does not take any damage (as Roland described). It's that simple!

 

[henrebotha]

Since you asked (sort of)...

First strike chances don't necessarily have a 50% chance of becoming first strikes, though it can very reasonably be thought of that way. It's also fairly reasonable to describe each first strike chance as 0.5 first strikes.

Basically at the start of battle, if n is the number of first strike chances, then you get rand(0,n) of them converted into first strikes, and these are added to the other first strikes. So for example, a unit with 0-1 first strikes (ie. 1 first strike chance) has a 50:50 chance of having 0 or 1 first strike. A unit with 4-7 first strikes (4 guaranteed first strikes and 3 first strike chances), has a 25% chance of 4, a 25% chance of 5, a 25% chance of 6, and a 25% chance of 7 first strikes in battle.

Then when the battle starts, if a unit has N first strikes, then in the first N rounds of battle that unit does not take any damage (as Roland described). It's that simple!

Ah, okay, that's perfectly reasonable, and a lot less complex than some of the combat formulae I've seen on this website.

Drill promotions (which give first strikes) are good in situations where the unit receiving the drill promotions already has an advantage over the opposing units. This can be because the drill promoted unit is benefiting from a significant defence bonus or because the opposing units have been severely bombed or because there is a technological advantage for the drill promoted unit. In these cases, the first strikes can allow the drill promoted unit to defeat the opposing unit while barely losing any hit points itself. This way a single drill promoted unit doesn't need to heal between battles and can defeat several enemy units during a single turn.

So, for instance, a Blitz-promoted unit that has a power edge over its opponents would benefit greatly from extra first strikes? That makes a lot of sense, and I think I'm going to start giving my Cavalry, Gunships and Tanks Drill promotions if I see that I have a military tech lead.

 

[M1r4cL3]

is this a mod or is it a setting, and what ever it is where can i find it?

i mean the top info with great person and gg

and why is does the sea has that high quality graphs

 

[PieceOfMind]

That is called the BUG mod (link). It is an interface mod which does not affect gameplay rules, except incorporating the unofficial patch. It can be downloaded here.

You should have BtS patch version 3.17 before you use it.

Welcome to the civfanatics forums M1r4cL3!

 

[Roland Johansen]

Ah, okay, that's perfectly reasonable, and a lot less complex than some of the combat formulae I've seen on this website.

So, for instance, a Blitz-promoted unit that has a power edge over its opponents would benefit greatly from extra first strikes? That makes a lot of sense, and I think I'm going to start giving my Cavalry, Gunships and Tanks Drill promotions if I see that I have a military tech lead.

Note that the first drill promotion just gives you a first strike chance (which is about half as valuable as a first strike) while the last drill promotion offers 2 first strikes. Also when you have many first strikes, then it allows you to win battles against weak or weakened opponents with just first strike combat rounds. Combined this means that the promotion is typically only valuable when you get to drill III or IV.

 

[6K Man]

If you are looking for some rules of thumb for when to promote along the Drill Line...

- try to give the promo to units that will have an innate advantage during combat. If your Tanks will be facing Grenadiers, Drill will help them take less damage during what will presumably be a combat victory, and keep your offensive rolling. And giving it to your Longbows/Machine Guns will help keep them alive when defending cities (higher Drill promos also reduce collateral damage suffered).

- Give Drill to units that are designed for it. I give it to ChoKoNu's - they already start with first strikes and Drill 1 if protective, so it only takes 5 XP to get them to the useful Drill III. Same deal with Stealth Destroyers - both units can get a lot of 1st strikes that way.

- Conversely, if you will be facing equally modern units when you go to war, go with Combat or one of the specialties like Pinch or Cover. A Combat I unit will beat a Drill I unit most of the time, absent other bonuses.

I always forget these rules and promote along the Drill line because it seems cool. Don't be like me.

 

[PieceOfMind]

6k Man,

My rule of thumb with drill is pretty much don't promote along it unless you are using a Protective leader, because they are the ones who get the (extremely handy) headstart to Drill IV. I always say, Drill IV is what makes the drill promotion line worthwhile. Drill IV is almost worth as much as Drill I, II and III combined - it's that good!

The only real time to use drill if you are not Protective, is when you have the military edge for some reason or other, or on certain niche units as you and Roland suggested.

As well as the ChoKoNu, another great unit is the machine gun. Machine guns are very strong defenders when they first enter the scene, and drill makes them extremely hard to unstick, even if used by non-Protective leaders.

Drill I, II and III combined give 1-4 first strikes (on average 2.5 first strikes) and you suffer 40% less collateral damage.

Drill IV alone gives you 2 first strikes, a +10% bonus against mounted units, and you suffer 20% less collateral damage.

 

[6K Man]

Drill 4 Stealth DD's I very occasionally have a city that will give me those out of the box (Drydock+WP+Pentagon+GGs), but I'm usually tempted to go CIII + Blitz, which is pretty damn good too.

And if you are building an invasion force, CR promos are better for attacking cities than anything, really.

 

[IAM]

The Ormono Warrior (UU for Ethiopia) starts with drill I & II which makes getting to drill IV easy.

 

[vogtmurr]

If you are looking for some rules of thumb for when to promote along the Drill Line...

- try to give the promo to units that will have an innate advantage during combat. If your Tanks will be facing Grenadiers, Drill will help them take less damage during what will presumably be a combat victory, and keep your offensive rolling. And giving it to your Longbows/Machine Guns will help keep them alive when defending cities (higher Drill promos also reduce collateral damage suffered).

- Give Drill to units that are designed for it. I give it to ChoKoNu's - they already start with first strikes and Drill 1 if protective, so it only takes 5 XP to get them to the useful Drill III. Same deal with Stealth Destroyers - both units can get a lot of 1st strikes that way.

- Conversely, if you will be facing equally modern units when you go to war, go with Combat or one of the specialties like Pinch or Cover. A Combat I unit will beat a Drill I unit most of the time, absent other bonuses.

I always forget these rules and promote along the Drill line because it seems cool. Don't be like me.

Seems like sound advice. I think its worth mentioning that some entry level cavalry units, and any unit with two flanking promotions is immune to first strikes, making even Drill IV potentially useless.

 

[Rorybob]

Does the culture in a city have any influence of Religion Spread?
I recently was playing a game, and Buddhism managed to spread across a sea to my Capital, but I had to send missionaries to get any cities converted.
Is this because my capital was so cultured, Buddihists came to visit it, and the religion spread?