Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Lemon Merchant]

Off topic: Not to pick nits, but if one includes "colors" under the heading of "pictures"...some people have a form of synesthesia in which they perceive colors upon hearing sounds or music. No psychosis necessary!

[/Fellow healthcare worker digression]

Well now, that kind of lets me out doesn't it? I'm just here for the pretty pictures.

 

[jmas]

Well now, that kind of lets me out doesn't it? I'm just here for the pretty pictures.

Good one! I can use that line once I get high enough up in difficulty and/or unlucky enough with start or AIs to get stomped (only up to Noble so far).

 

[ratman]

ive downloaded some mods (graphics,units) and would like to load then but seem to be only able to load one from within the game load a mod function

 

[roidesfoux]

1) Is there a tutorial on how exactly the power graph works?

2) Is there a tutorial on AI war declaration i.e. how the leaders take into account attitude and power level (and any other determining factors) when determining when to wage war?

 

[r_rolo1]

1- See here under soldiers. the power graph is nothing more than the number of soldiers ( as despicted in demographics ) plotted against the turn number.

2- There is not a coherent guide, but I guess the best reference is this thread, especially the post where the link opens.

 

[IAM]

Well now, that kind of lets me out doesn't it? I'm just here for the pretty pictures.

You are the pretty picture. and thanks for the Vista answer.

 

[bestbrian]

You are the pretty picture. and thanks for the Vista answer.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[askplato]

Hello everyone,
Rather new to civ iv with 1 obstacle I'm having "issues" with.
In my current game (civ iv BTS FFH mod) I have 5 cities that won't budge past 1, and won't let me produce anything. Some are conquered and some are placed (within the blue circle hint location) They won't budge no matter what I do, I've built farms, added culture, placed the 1 citizen I can control on the most food productive square, nothing. I know there is a simple answer, but I can't find it.

Someone throw me a line.

Thanks
askplato.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

why dont you play your music in Windows media player(or other such program) that's what I do
My computer isnt that great and it handles the load

Well, it turned out like this:

♫ Sleep with one eye open, gripping your pillow tight ♫ - bzzzzt -

"If music be the food of love, play on..." - bzzzzt -

♫ Exit light... Enter night... ♫

But thanks for the tip.

You are the pretty picture. and thanks for the Vista answer.

Awww, shucks. (Lemon looks at her shoes and shuffles.) Thanks. And you're welcome.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Ok, it wasn't the best picture in the world, but have I ever vomited at you?

Smartie-pants man. I'm imagining you in your underwear right now...

And just look at me! I can't control myself from laughter!

 

[Lord Parkin]

I have a bit of a complaint/rant related to a game I'm playing.

Spies can change civics even when a civ is inside the "cannot change civics" wait period from changing their own civics. Coupled with the fact that the civic switch espionage mission is ridiculously cheap, this can be exploited to a massive extent, especially in multiplayer. With enough espionage against them, a strong civ can be perpetually kept in the worst civics for pretty much the entire second half of the game by the rest of the world, and nothing they do can prevent this. (Short of utterly destroying the buggers... and even that doesn't work with Require Complete Kills on - a common option for multiplayer games). Something seems wrong here...

I think Spies should not be allowed to change civics when a civ is inside the "cannot change civics" wait period, to make things at least slightly fair. Especially since the rules are not reversed for the other player - i.e. they have to wait the minimum period before switching back to their original civics (before the Spies do their dirty work and switch the player back to the poor civics again, mid-civic change).

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I wonder if someone would be able to put that into a mod? Even if it were to just make it very expensive to use the mission, making it less exploitable. I didn't know about this one myself, but it does seem rather broken.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I have a bit of a complaint/rant related to a game I'm playing.

Spies can change civics even when a civ is inside the "cannot change civics" wait period from changing their own civics. Coupled with the fact that the civic switch espionage mission is ridiculously cheap, this can be exploited to a massive extent, especially in multiplayer. With enough espionage against them, a strong civ can be perpetually kept in the worst civics for pretty much the entire second half of the game by the rest of the world, and nothing they do can prevent this. (Short of utterly destroying the buggers... and even that doesn't work with Require Complete Kills on - a common option for multiplayer games). Something seems wrong here...

I think Spies should not be allowed to change civics when a civ is inside the "cannot change civics" wait period, to make things at least slightly fair. Especially since the rules are not reversed for the other player - i.e. they have to wait the minimum period before switching back to their original civics (before the Spies do their dirty work and switch the player back to the poor civics again, mid-civic change).

I wonder if someone would be able to put that into a mod? Even if it were to just make it very expensive to use the mission, making it less exploitable. I didn't know about this one myself, but it does seem rather broken.

I agree as I've said so in the past:

Spy discussion thread

The reason that this hasn't lead to massive protests on the forum is because the AI doesn't use it. Since I've learned about this, I've disabled this mission (modded it out).

Hello everyone,
Rather new to civ iv with 1 obstacle I'm having "issues" with.
In my current game (civ iv BTS FFH mod) I have 5 cities that won't budge past 1, and won't let me produce anything. Some are conquered and some are placed (within the blue circle hint location) They won't budge no matter what I do, I've built farms, added culture, placed the 1 citizen I can control on the most food productive square, nothing. I know there is a simple answer, but I can't find it.

Someone throw me a line.

Thanks
askplato.

I can't help you with that without a savegame (plus the version of the game that you're using) or some screenshots. Maybe the conquered cities are still revolting, maybe you have set them to stop growth, maybe you're building a settler or worker and didn't know they'd use food to produce them. I don't know what's happening in your game.

At least, welcome to civfanatics!

 

[Lord Parkin]

I agree as I've said so in the past:

Spy discussion thread

The reason that this hasn't lead to massive protests on the forum is because the AI doesn't use it. Since I've learned about this, I've disabled this mission (modded it out).

Thanks for the link. I absolutely agree that the spy mission NEEDS to take into account the size of the enemy economy (and probably also their level of production). In the game I'm playing, I lose thousands of beakers and hundreds of hammers every time someone performs this ridiculously cheap mission against me.

It's a shame I can't do much about it in my existing multiplayer game. Except... I guess I could use the UN to try to enforce some civics and prevent them being changed, I guess. Doesn't work for the civics I don't want to be fifth row, though.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Thanks for the link. I absolutely agree that the spy mission NEEDS to take into account the size of the enemy economy (and probably also their level of production). In the game I'm playing, I lose thousands of beakers and hundreds of hammers every time someone performs this ridiculously cheap mission against me.

It's a shame I can't do much about it in my existing multiplayer game. Except... I guess I could use the UN to try to enforce some civics and prevent them being changed, I guess. Doesn't work for the civics I don't want to be fifth row, though.

I agree.

Note the date of that discussion (oct 2007) and you'll see that this is not something new. So if you want to have it changed, then you'll need to get a good following of players for the BetterAI or Unofficial pacth mod or another mod that might be used in multiplayer. But since the majority of people aren't playing multiplayer, they won't suffer from this mission as the AI doesn't use it.

For your present multiplayer game where someone thinks they're smart in abusing this game fault , you could try the following things:

-Don't change back civics anymore. It's too costly. The forced change doesn't result in anarchy, only you changing back results in anarchy. They also have to be in these civics in order to change you into them.
-Do upon them what they do upon you. So if they switch back to better civics, then you switch them back. It's of course less costly for them if they're spiritual, but they're still in bad civics for a while as they can't switch back immediately after a previous revolution.
-Get the Christo Redentor wonder: highest priority
-Switch civics during a golden age.
-Play a spiritual civilisation next time when you play against these players who enjoy abusing game faults.
-A lot of spying mechanics are explained in the thread that I linked. The change civic and religion civics are the toughest to perform, their odds are the worst. You can make their odds very low by using counterespionage and station spies or security bureaus in your cities.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Actually I already have Cristo Redentor, thankfully. It's still a pain though. Luckily that game's pretty much over though (shouldn't be more than 5 turns left to a domination victory - link).

The people I'm playing with are actually fairly good folks, and would agree not to use the mission if it would seriously change the outcome of the game. In this case the outcome is rather set in stone anyway though. (Attachments added for those interested... they're actually from a few turns back, numbers are now 17.8k for GNP, 7.5k for production, and 2.5k for food. This is in 1680 AD. )

Still, my main concern is that under different circumstances, this overly cheap mission could easily ruin a multiplayer game in the later eras. It still badly needs to be fixed (mission cost scaling with size of economy probably being the easiest and best solution).

 

[Roland Johansen]

They're good guys if they're still willing to finish this game as there's really nothing for them to do but lose.

If I were to balance the mission, then the cost would likely be something like:

(GNP + 2* MFG Goods) * 2 * gamespeed factor * anarchy factor * 1.5 (it would be impossible during anarchy)

That last *2 is to balance for the halving cost factor of fortifying a spy 5 turns. The 'anarchy factor' is there in case that a single civic switch could result in 2 turns of anarchy. The 1.5 factor is there to make sure that the one changing civics is losing more than the one who is forced to change. This kind of thing should not be cost efficient.

To change the civics in your empire would thus have a huge cost. However, it could be used to manipulate smaller civilisations in a single player game.

 

[Lord Parkin]

They're good guys if they're still willing to finish this game as there's really nothing for them to do but lose.

Yeah... our gaming group is pretty good on the whole. We all start these large scale 12-18 player games with the understanding that we'll play right through to the end regardless of what happens. Even though only one of us can win any particular game, it gives everyone a sense of satisfaction to see the games completed.

Besides - in multiplayer games, if you want people to play on when you're the one winning, you have to be willing to keep playing on even when someone else is winning. Otherwise every game would end the moment anyone started to get a significant lead, and that would be no fun.

If I were to balance the mission, then the cost would likely be something like:

(GNP + 2* MFG Goods) * 2 * gamespeed factor * anarchy factor * 1.5 (it would be impossible during anarchy)

That last *2 is to balance for the halving cost factor of fortifying a spy 5 turns. The 'anarchy factor' is there in case that a single civic switch could result in 2 turns of anarchy. The 1.5 factor is there to make sure that the one changing civics is losing more than the one who is forced to change. This kind of thing should not be cost efficient.

To change the civics in your empire would thus have a huge cost. However, it could be used to manipulate smaller civilisations in a single player game.

Sounds fairly good to me. I'd have to look up some figures from my previous games to see what kind of espionage numbers this would generate in a typical game. But it looks reasonable at a glance, anyway.

 

[Fancy Will]

I’ve been searching the forums and war academy for answers, but haven’t found them. Any links, info, or corrections would be appreciated.

1. Unit promo’s are given when a unit is at 2, 5, 10, 17, ect… experience points. Promo level is p: p*p+1= req. exp.

2. Do units start with 1 exp.?

3. Are free promo’s from Aggressive Civs really free? (i.e.: to go from combat 1 to combat 2 = 2exp. or 1exp if question #2 is true.) Or are Agr Civs essentially given exp. to reach Combat1? (combat 1 to combat 2 = 3exp.)

4. A different way to ask Q#3: How many exp. points does it take an Agr Civ’s unit to reach Combat 3?

 

[henrebotha]

I’ve been searching the forums and war academy for answers, but haven’t found them. Any links, info, or corrections would be appreciated.

1. Unit promo’s are given when a unit is at 2, 5, 10, 17, ect… experience points. Promo level is p: p*p+1= req. exp.

2. Do units start with 1 exp.?

3. Are free promo’s from Aggressive Civs really free? (i.e.: to go from combat 1 to combat 2 = 2exp. or 1exp if question #2 is true.) Or are Agr Civs essentially given exp. to reach Combat1? (combat 1 to combat 2 = 3exp.)

4. A different way to ask Q#3: How many exp. points does it take an Agr Civ’s unit to reach Combat 3?

1. I don't know. I've tried many times to figure out a formula, but I couldn't. Not that it matters - I just remember the totals needed for promos.

2. No, they start with 0 (unless they get XP from some other source, like a Barracks).

3. They are really free, in the sense that a level 1 unit (ie one with 0 XP) has Combat I.

4. If you choose only Combat promos, it takes 5 XP.

 

[r_rolo1]

4) Or 4, if you're playing a Charismatic/ Agressive leader