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Quick Questions / Quick Answers

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Theral, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. besset

    besset Warlord

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    How do you guys deal with the world declaring war on you when you are about to win? Im only in industrial era as germany, almost got all the CS's on the map allied and the world declares war on me because "my behaviour infuriates them". I went from 20 happiness to 35 unhappiness with revolts. How do you avoid this??? It really sucks
     
  2. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Bigger army, better defense (wonders, religion, policy), better diplomacy, better city placement / empire building (make it hard to effectively attack you...1 or 2 buffer vassals are always nice).
    Diplomacy shouldn't be underestimated here: try to drive wedges between the different camps so that they're busy fighting each other.
     
  3. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    Uploading a screenshot of the spot immediately before/as war is declared would be the best way to tell you what to do. My guess is you didn't have a large enough army and they didn't have worse enemies so they ganged up on you happily. My suggestion would be to spend less production on diplomatic units and more on an army, you really don't need every single CS to be allied in industrial, just a solid enough lead to pass what you want. That will make some civs less pissed at you for taking their CS allies, give you more to defend yourself with, and you'll probably even get a Defensive Pact if your army is big enough, or scare some weaker civs away from attacking you. Also make sure you aren't making too many civs mad with your proposals/voting.

    A good idea if you haven't already done it is to turn on transparent diplomacy. It gives you the positive/negative diplomatic modifiers you have with each civ in numeric form to better track how they think of you.
     
  4. MidnightAfterglow

    MidnightAfterglow Chieftain

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    Question: How is the "religious pressure erosion" for the Universalism enhancer religious belief supposed to work exactly? The description is stated as follows: "Missionaries of this Religion erode existing pressure from other religions by 50% when Spreading Religion." So, for example, if a city has a rival/neighboring religion exerting a pressure of +50 within it, and I use one of my missionaries to spread my religion, that pressure should then drop to +25, no? Because 50% of that +50 pressure should be "eroded", I would expect to see the pressure halved. However, in my current game, this is not what I am observing; instead, I see the rival religious pressure drop by +1 or +2 pressure only, if at all. Is this working as intended? I don't understand how this mechanic is supposed to work. Can someone elucidate?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  5. Minh Le

    Minh Le King

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    Foreign pressure and your missionary strength determine how many citizen will be converted to your religion in one spread. So Erode 50% existing pressure means that foreign pressure will be 50% weaker to your missionary spread. I dont know the exact formular though, but its very useful for spreading to cities follow other religions, much stronger than +25% strength.
     
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  6. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I thought it just worked similar to an inquisitor. It adds 1000 of your pressure and removes 500 of enemy pressure. Thst was my understanding
     
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  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    If I understand correctly, the inquisitor removes all the points of foreign religions accumulated in the city. A missionary adds points for one religion, and religious cities adds points to nearby cities in form of pressure.

    Then, a city can resist the inquisitor action if it has the buildings, the policies or the beliefs to do so.

    I think this missionary ability works like the inquisitor by half.
     
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  8. MidnightAfterglow

    MidnightAfterglow Chieftain

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    Ah I see. So it works as a boost to your missionaries' conversion strength, not so much "eroding the religious pressure" as it is eroding the resistance to conversion which that religious pressure generates. I also never knew conversion strength was a function of the magnitude of preexisting religious pressures; I always only observed that religion spreads were weaker in cities which had pressures from preexisting rival religions versus those that did not. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
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  9. MidnightAfterglow

    MidnightAfterglow Chieftain

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    That is also what I originally thought too. But I don't observe the number of followers of rival religions being halved when I spread the religion, even in a City State which would not have any capability to "resist" conversion/erosion as far as I am aware.
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    It doesn't work as you think. There are two concepts: pressure pool and pressure. The pool is the accumulated pressure points in the city, while pressure is just how many potential pressure points are exerted to the city and beyond.

    Suppose a city with a pantheon and 0 religion points, only pantheon points. You spread once with a missionary, which adds 1000 points of his religion to the city. Pantheonists can add points to the city, but they can't resist conversion, so suppose the pantheonists have added 500 points up to this moment, in a 9 pop city. Once you add 1000 (let's say hinduist) points, the city has 1500 religious points (1000 hinduist + 500 pantheonist), so proportionally it is 66% hinduist and 33% pantheonist, which makes 6 hinduist citizens and 3 pantheonist citizens in the city.
    After the spread, this city is going to exert 6 hinduist pressure to nearby cities (but it decays with steps traveled).
    You spread a second time with the same missionary, giving another 1000 hinduist points, making the proportion 2000 to 500, so 80% hinduist, 20% pantheonist, which makes 7 hinduist citizens and 2 pantheonist citizens in your 9 pop city.
    Now the city exert 7 hinduist pressure.

    Let's say that some turns have passed. Your city is now 16 pop, all of them are hinduist, and your city has accumulated 10000 hinduist points. Here comes a portuguese catholic missionary and spread to your city, twice, adding 1750 catholic points to the pool. That's 85% hinduist and 15% catholic, meaning 13 hinduist and 3 catholic in the city. Not a great achievement, eh?
    Then comes the inquisitor. Portugal conquers the city and send an inquisitor. The inquisitor removes all hinduist points in the city, leaving only 1750 catholic points in it, so the action causes 100% citizens in the city to be catholic, at least during this turn. Next turn the city is going to add all the religious pressure from the neighboring cities and things may change.

    Suppose that we had built a mandir in the city, giving 25% conversion resistance just before Portugal conquered the city. When Portugal tried to remove heresy, instead of removing 10000 hinduist points, it would have removed only 7500 points, leaving still 2500 hinduist points in the city. Thats 62.5% hinduist, 37.5% catholic, so 10 hinduist citizens and 6 catholic ones, not being sufficient to convert it.

    I guess that the ability for the missionaries eroding existing (accumulated) pressure is as follows:
    In the case an inquisitor had removed 10000 hinduist points, the missionary removes 5000 points. In the case where the inquisitor had removed 7500 points, the missionary removes 3750. And then adds 1000 catholic pressure.
    I can be wrong with the actual implementation, though.
     
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  11. MidnightAfterglow

    MidnightAfterglow Chieftain

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    Hmm, ok, that does clear things up a lot. Thanks for explaining. I never knew there were hidden "pools" of accumulated religion points for each city, but it makes sense now.
     
  12. besset

    besset Warlord

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    What are the pros and cons of rationalism and industry? How do you choose one over the other? Obviously it's dependant on your victory type.

    What about order and freedom? Both are suited for CV and SV. Freedom is more tall and specialist oriented though right?
     
  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    If I think I can defend myself and be the first to any peaceful victory condition, then Rationalism.
    If I've already win, but just need to get rid of the other superpower, or I wanted a domination victory, then imperialism.
    If my infrastructure is low or I need to keep city states alliances, I'm uncertain about what victory condition will be best, or I know my defenses are not enough, then Industrialism.

    You might be tempted to pick Rationalism if you had many villages and you focused on great people, but you risk not having enough experienced units and allies to stand against your enemies once they come for you.

    Or you could waste turns not attacking your only competitor if you don't take imperialism, which gives other civs time to recover and cause problems.
     
  14. mooncow

    mooncow Chieftain

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    Hello
    I played Civ5 some years ago and now I would like to try it again (I have it on steam with all expansions and DLC)
    I read that it is possible to install the community patch (bugfixes and UI) without installing the whole VOX populi mod?
    Does this still work ok ? Is the community patch AI (without VOX populi) still much better choice compared to the standard CIV5 ? Thanks
     
  15. vyyt

    vyyt Emperor

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    @mooncow , Yes, Yes and Yes :)

    Download the autoinstaller, run it and choose Community Patch only when prompted. If you want the new UI, that comes from EUI, so you have to choose Community Patch + EUI.

    But really, just go with the whole Vox Populi, it is so much better, so much more fun than the base game.
     
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  16. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Yes, use the autoinstaller and select "Community Patch Only", it includes AI improvement, and some minor gameplay changes
    (Early naval units can pass trough deep ocean but not stop on it, ...) required for the AI to actually be good at warfare, or bugfixes that actually have gameplay consequences.

    UI improvements will not be included, however. There is a way to install the EUI (which isn't made by the devs here, it is done independantly from us) together with the Community Patch, but you need to delete few files from the EUI for this to work, I never tried so I don't know exactly how.

    And yes, the AI will be significantly better. Not human-like intelligence, but far better, and far less bugged.
     
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  17. vyyt

    vyyt Emperor

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    Really? Are you sure there is no Community Patch + EUI option in the autoinstaller? (not by my computer to check right now)
     
  18. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Options are:
    VP with EUI
    VP without EUI
    CP only
    CP + CBO -> I think you misread this one as CP + EUI, but it isn't.
    43civ CP
    43civ VP with EUI
    43civ VP without EUI
     
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  19. dylansan

    dylansan Warlord

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    What determines whether a civ is willing to capitulate during war? Obviously it's not something they do willy nilly, but are there specific requirements or measures? In my recent game I was only able to get them to after taking their capital and some other cities, but I don't think you have to take the capital.

    Is it just as simple as warscore, or is there more to it?
     
  20. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    I don't have actual values to give you but I can confirm that you don't need their capital for capitulation to happen. I believe it's really a major difference in your military strength once you get sufficient warscore. I remember a game where I got a civ to capitulate but they still thought about rebelling because they had a chance to rebuild and capture more cities to bolster their strength. Usually, the loss of their capital should suffice but you don't want them too strong unless you're going for Autocracy.
     

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