Quick Questions / Quick Answers

[tothePAIN]

Is it intended that being sanctioned removes corporations from vassal cities? Because afterwards, its possible to create corporations in vassal cities.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

@Cokolwiek
However I still find it odd why the needs from technology for instance has gone up from 34-46%, and probably as a result, the needs modifiers from 110%-135%. The technology needs in other cities range from 30%-46%, yet the wiki page (probably outdated) suggests it should be a flat modifier across the empire. Is avoiding growth "freezing" the needs modifiers?

It's because the modifiers "freeze" on the current pop, but as you progress they will increase nonetheless in the "background" (you have more techs, global yield medians increase, etc.). So if you use avoid growth and the city's pop doesn't increase for a long time, the next time it will grow can potentially see bigger jump in needs as a result. As a consequence you should try to avoid using "avoid growth" (which just simply shouldn't exist in my personal opinion). And it's perfectly normal to have unhappiness swings.

Btw, citizens reduce the needs directly (city-size modifier) and semi-directly (through yields), so it's generally advised to have bigger population (if you can keep up with infrastructure ofc).

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah as I've learned recently, avoid growth can be a bit of a trap. Yes it solves your immediate problems, but it exaggerates unhappiness later in the game. I have found it more useful to just grow through the pain...and once your cities hit higher pops they actually settle out more and become happier.

 

[tu_79]

Exactly, it plainly says "for every mountain within 3 tiles of the city". I guess neutral (not within anyone's border) do count.



I asked several times in several threads, including here recently, no one replied, civilopedia also provides no information, so I guess not.

Here is what I know though, and I think I covered most of how unhappiness is governed:
It is some wizardry from global median (which is derived from yields in every city in the game) modified by rather stable values from technology (percentage seems to exactly how much of total techs you have), empire size and city size. It is very obscure in detail, but it works and is rather simple in principles: as global median is derived from yields if you not develop yields through buildings, techs, improvement you will fall behind, because each unhappiness point from needs will require less and less yield deficit (as most cities increase their yields throughout the game). For example 5 more gold will be enough to bring one unhappiness from poverty down in medieval, but not in industrial (and this applies retroactively as system counts whole yields against whole needs at any point). Needs are adjusted on new citizen birth. System does not count set unhappiness points but is: aggregate yields for the city divided by a global median need at the birth of the last citizen. Needs from global median are not normally visible, but they are visible for buildings that reduce global empire needs (but only for the moment they are built at, it shows for example: old need 8.55 gold per citizen for one unhappiness, new 8.22). Some unhappiness is overflowing (can be higher than city population) like starvation or urbanization, but most of those normal ones (boredom, poverty etc.) is limited by population. Unhappiness from needs queues or waits for its time if its overflowing. You tackle poverty, boredom arises. It was there (and it is showed in the city screen as 0 or 1, real: 5), but as your citizens hadn't had any money, they didn't bother there are not enough kpop albums to spend it on, they started that complaints after they got richer. System cannot be directly explained as it is not based on set values but global median which is ever changing, but it is totally understandable when you know which principles govern it. @Gazebo has recently stated that there is no unhappiness increase from entering new era, other than usual technology modifier, I hope this clarifies something for you.

I made a guide on happiness, but not explaining exactly how it works. Maybe it's something we could add, but your briefing pretty much covers it.

 

[Cokolwiek]

Yeah as I've learned recently, avoid growth can be a bit of a trap. Yes it solves your immediate problems, but it exaggerates unhappiness later in the game. I have found it more useful to just grow through the pain...and once your cities hit higher pops they actually settle out more and become happier.

I completely disagree, and I usually have 100% happiness and first place in population. If I am warmongering, I lock most of my cities in industrial and still retain 50 or 100 more population than second most populous AI. Growing a city to certain size, when half of worked tiles are farms or growing a city to work more farms (wow), I will not comment on that. Or getting another citizen to work mine for 12 production, when city already has 180 production from factory and railway station. It's really more complicated than that and food is really undervalued as of now and tends to be useless later in the game, but let's not discuss it here. If you some of you want that discussion, let's make another thread. I have mentioned several times that happiness is too easy in several threads.

 

[Cokolwiek]

I made a guide on happiness, but not explaining exactly how it works. Maybe it's something we could add, but your briefing pretty much covers it.

Can you give a link? I am interested in reading it.

Being successful in Civ 5 is to some degree do-your-math challenge. Happiness mini-game follows that. Yeah, 12 production in a city that already have 150 or 200 is covered for production needs for the rest of a game for the price of 5 or 6 unhappiness.

To anyone further interest how food and citizens are really needed (which is connected with happiness managament), @CrazyG one time made one of the most insightful (and informative and fun) photojournals of all time, about this, purposefully locking every city on 3 population. Results: for most of game business as usual, even power-spike early because of working some valuable production tiles, not farms. Really, specialists remained the only drawback. I highly recommend it to everyone, I learned much myself: The Three Pop Challenge by @CrazyG

 

[SilentReply]

If you some of you want that discussion, let's make another thread. I have mentioned several times that happiness is too easy in several threads.

I would definitely like to start another thread for a more detailed discussion. My experience has been the opposite with happiness. I will try to play through the impending unhappiness "wave" in the game I posted before making a conclusion though.

 

[tu_79]

Can you give a link? I am interested in reading it.

Being successful in Civ 5 is to some degree do-your-math challenge. Happiness mini-game follows that. Yeah, 12 production in a city that already have 150 or 200 is covered for production needs for the rest of a game for the price of 5 or 6 unhappiness.

To anyone further interest how food and citizens are really needed (which is connected with happiness managament), @CrazyG one time made one of the most insightful (and informative and fun) photojournals of all time, about this, purposefully locking every city on 3 population. Results: for most of game business as usual, even power-spike early because of working some valuable production tiles, not farms. Really, specialists remained the only drawback. I highly recommend it to everyone, I learned much myself: The Three Pop Challenge by @CrazyG

Sure.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/guide-new-guide-to-happiness.650550/

 

[frktest]

I'm playing with July 17th (4.7.17) ver., difficulty level 5. I saw a AI player (spain) found a city at turn 103 with population 1. The next turn the city had population 4; how can that happen?

 

[tu_79]

I'm playing with July 17th (4.7.17) ver., difficulty level 5. I saw a AI player (spain) found a city at turn 103 with population 1. The next turn the city had population 4; how can that happen?

Spain ability is, among other things, getting population when settling. Maybe it was changed to food on settling, but the effect is the same in the early game.

 

[Stalker0]

Spain ability is, among other things, getting population when settling. Maybe it was changed to food on settling, but the effect is the same in the early game.

Also the AI gets free food by default on settling I believe, so it grows its first few levels very quickly.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

Spains' bonus food on settling is usually enough to get to 3 pop withing the first three turns in human hands without extra bonuses from handicap, it's not something unusal for AI spain to get to the 4th pop within 4 turns tho.

Spain ability is, among other things, getting population when settling. Maybe it was changed to food on settling, but the effect is the same in the early game.

 

[Zanteogo]

How do you turn off unit icons?

 

[Stalker0]

Do luxs give a local benefit to the city they are in the borders of....or is it just through the empire bonus being split up to each of them?

 

[tu_79]

Do luxs give a local benefit to the city they are in the borders of....or is it just through the empire bonus being split up to each of them?

Do you mean happiness? I'm not sure either. I remember Gazebo experimenting with some local happiness, but I don't think that passed the test.

 

[Stalker0]

Does anyone know the formula for how military supply from population is calculated?

 

[Recursive]

Does anyone know the formula for how military supply from population is calculated?

//   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/// Units supplied by Population
int CvPlayer::GetNumUnitsSuppliedByPopulation(bool bIgnoreReduction) const
{
   if (MOD_BALANCE_DYNAMIC_UNIT_SUPPLY)
   {
       int iStartingSupply = getHandicapInfo().getProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent();
      
       int iValue = 0;
       const CvCity* pLoopCity;
       int iLoop;
      
       for (pLoopCity = firstCity(&iLoop); pLoopCity != NULL; pLoopCity = nextCity(&iLoop))
       {
           int iPopulation = 0;
           int iSupply = (iStartingSupply + pLoopCity->getCitySupplyModifier() + m_pTraits->GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation() + GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation());
           if (pLoopCity->IsPuppet() && !GetPlayerTraits()->IsNoAnnexing())
           {
               iPopulation = (pLoopCity->getPopulation() / 2) * 100;
           }
           else
           {
               iPopulation = pLoopCity->getPopulation() * 100;
           }

           iValue += ((iPopulation * iSupply) / 100);
       }

       if (!bIgnoreReduction)
       {
           int iTechProgress = (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).GetTeamTechs()->GetNumTechsKnown() * 100) / GC.getNumTechInfos();
           if(iTechProgress >= 100)
               iTechProgress = 100;
          
           iTechProgress *= 7;
              
           iValue *= 100;
           iValue /= (100 + iTechProgress);
       }

       iValue /= 100;

       if (iValue < 0)
           return 0;

       return iValue;
   }
}

 

[Stalker0]

//   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/// Units supplied by Population
int CvPlayer::GetNumUnitsSuppliedByPopulation(bool bIgnoreReduction) const
{
   if (MOD_BALANCE_DYNAMIC_UNIT_SUPPLY)
   {
       int iStartingSupply = getHandicapInfo().getProductionFreeUnitsPopulationPercent();
    
       int iValue = 0;
       const CvCity* pLoopCity;
       int iLoop;
    
       for (pLoopCity = firstCity(&iLoop); pLoopCity != NULL; pLoopCity = nextCity(&iLoop))
       {
           int iPopulation = 0;
           int iSupply = (iStartingSupply + pLoopCity->getCitySupplyModifier() + m_pTraits->GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation() + GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation());
           if (pLoopCity->IsPuppet() && !GetPlayerTraits()->IsNoAnnexing())
           {
               iPopulation = (pLoopCity->getPopulation() / 2) * 100;
           }
           else
           {
               iPopulation = pLoopCity->getPopulation() * 100;
           }

           iValue += ((iPopulation * iSupply) / 100);
       }

       if (!bIgnoreReduction)
       {
           int iTechProgress = (GET_TEAM(getTeam()).GetTeamTechs()->GetNumTechsKnown() * 100) / GC.getNumTechInfos();
           if(iTechProgress >= 100)
               iTechProgress = 100;
        
           iTechProgress *= 7;
            
           iValue *= 100;
           iValue /= (100 + iTechProgress);
       }

       iValue /= 100;

       if (iValue < 0)
           return 0;

       return iValue;
   }
}

Almost there. The key is this line:

int iSupply = (iStartingSupply + pLoopCity->getCitySupplyModifier() + m_pTraits->GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation() + GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation());

I assume each of these is a decimal (aka percentage)...I add them up and then multiply them by the city's population to get its supply contribution. Seems simple enough. In that case:

iStartingSupply; I assume this is just a hardcoded difficulty value (do you know what the values are by chance?)

getCitySupplyModifier; My guess is this is the bonuses from walls, arsenals, etc.

m_pTraits->GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation(); No idea

GetExtraSupplyPerPopulation()); No idea

 

[vyyt]

Do you mean happiness? I'm not sure either. I remember Gazebo experimenting with some local happiness, but I don't think that passed the test.

Yeah, I think it was in for about 1-2 version some time last summer. I personally liked this feature (at least on paper), it created a nice incentive to consider where to plant your cities.

 

[Crag Hack]

What is the difference between + 25% and +25% ? Are they identical effects ? Or maybe + 25% means that production from workers is increased by 25% while +25% means that production from workers plus from buildings/wonders/TRs etc (e.g. whole city) is increased by 25% ?

For example Water Mill says +3 + 25% and Train Station says +25%