Rage quitting AI
- Thread starter vranasm
- Start date
Boris Godunov
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2002
- Messages
- 401
But that's just it--she could have still had a chance very early on in the war if she had accepted some reasonable peace offers.
Elizabeth was alone on the largest continent in the world, having conquered the French, Japanese, Chinese and Indians entirely. She had the largest empire, although I was more technologically advanced. The initial reason I went to war with her is because she attacked the lone City-State I had allied with on her continent, and she had also planted two cities on a large isle just east of my continent where I also had two cities. I just wanted the war to protect my ally and boot her from my sphere of influence, but I also wanted her to feel SOME punitive measure, even if it was just paying me a pretty modest bit of tribute. So once I took over those two cities on the island and successfully repelled her attack on the City-State, I asked for the minimal 30 gold. No dice.
I then liberated Tours, Osaka, Beijing and Madras, bringing all 4 vanquished Civilizations back into play. I also made puppets of 3 English cities and liberated the City-State of Belgrade. I repeatedly asked her for peace with a minimal cost to her throughout this campaign, but she would not give me anything whatsoever. At any point she could have given me a measely 30 gold and the pain would have stopped.
Instead, I've stripped her of half the continent and, thanks to my liberations, secured a guaranteed diplomatic victory should I build the UN. Elizabeth could have easily forestalled that from happening, so the idea she was "playing to win" only works if you state that she was so incredibly stupid that she didn't realize she was actually handing me an easy victory by being so stubborn.
Just to be clear: I love the game. I just believe the AI and diplomacy need to be patched and improved a great deal to make the game even better.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Maybe he has just admitted defeat, and the only honorable way to go on with live is to give away all his worldly possessions and become a monk on a hill somewhere. Did you get a Great Prophet specialist in one of your cities? 
.
.CandleJack
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2010
- Messages
- 34
I have had a similar experience. Hopefully this will be fixed in the patch.
its my opinion that a bug as big as this should have been picked up in testing
Ok. Lets assume, then the AI is working great.
Then, I assume, that the following is perfectly valid?
I am playing France on King difficulty.
Russia is far away, but for some random reason declares war on me.
Nothing happens.
I don't actually know where Russia is, so I check again. Kind of far, a civilization in between us. Ok, maybe her army is en-route?
Nothing happens for another 20 turns. Meanwhile Japan declares war on me.
I attack Japan, and besiege it. I don't really have enough units to take his capital.
Japan surrenders everything to me. I decline, I want to destroy Japan.
Still nothing from Russia. I check my military advisor. He tells me that I'm more powerful than Japan (duh), but even with Russia. Fine.
A few more turns pass.
Out of the blue, Russia comes asking for peace, surrendering 700 gold, 17 gold per turn, and a bunch of resources! I have not at this point, attacked or killed a single Russia unit, nor sent a single unit towards Russia, or even have a single unit within a million miles of her border! The last time I was at her border was 500 years ago when my scout went through.
My army was fighting in the opposite side of my empire, against the hated Japanese. Even from my closest city though, I dragged a unit's path over to the closest Russian city to see how long it would take. 27 turns. 27 turns for my closest unit to even reach her cities. And she just gave me all her gold, resources, and all of her gold income.
Hmmmm
Then, I assume, that the following is perfectly valid?
I am playing France on King difficulty.
Russia is far away, but for some random reason declares war on me.
Nothing happens.
I don't actually know where Russia is, so I check again. Kind of far, a civilization in between us. Ok, maybe her army is en-route?
Nothing happens for another 20 turns. Meanwhile Japan declares war on me.
I attack Japan, and besiege it. I don't really have enough units to take his capital.
Japan surrenders everything to me. I decline, I want to destroy Japan.
Still nothing from Russia. I check my military advisor. He tells me that I'm more powerful than Japan (duh), but even with Russia. Fine.
A few more turns pass.
Out of the blue, Russia comes asking for peace, surrendering 700 gold, 17 gold per turn, and a bunch of resources! I have not at this point, attacked or killed a single Russia unit, nor sent a single unit towards Russia, or even have a single unit within a million miles of her border! The last time I was at her border was 500 years ago when my scout went through.
My army was fighting in the opposite side of my empire, against the hated Japanese. Even from my closest city though, I dragged a unit's path over to the closest Russian city to see how long it would take. 27 turns. 27 turns for my closest unit to even reach her cities. And she just gave me all her gold, resources, and all of her gold income.
Hmmmm
Tremonti
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2009
- Messages
- 20
Yeah, and that's exactly what people are doing now. Why should Firaxis/2K spend money on QA and testing when there's obviously a chunk of people ready to PAY THEM for doing it?
The thing that bothers me is that these AI "surrenders" are random, often when they are not really threatened or in any danger. AI surrenders make sense when they are about to be crushed. Japan offered everything to me, and that's good AI. He had a single archer and a single city, I had 2 warriers, a horse archer, and a horsemen.
But Russia? With her 3 cities, and even military, I am 100% certain I could not have taken a single one of her cities even if my units teleported next to her empire. Why am I so certain? Well, With my above mentioned army, I barely won with a 20% health horsemen, having lost both warriers, against Japan, the only civ NOT in the classical era, and who had a single archer.
In these stories that I'm reading, it seems similiar to mine. A small change, military ratio goes from 50/50 to 52/48 in your favor, and the AI panicks and gives the human player everything.
In my case, the only thing that I could think of that could cause this is that a horsemen popped from one of cities. Now that I had TWO horsemen, I dunno, it may have pushed the military advisor's assessment from even to slightly in my favor. Certainly, Russia was in no actual danger from me, before or after my second horsemen. In between us lay Greece, which even with my two horsemen is "wayyy more powerful" than me according to my military advisor.
This is definitely a bug, and it is basically the AI commiting suicide.
But Russia? With her 3 cities, and even military, I am 100% certain I could not have taken a single one of her cities even if my units teleported next to her empire. Why am I so certain? Well, With my above mentioned army, I barely won with a 20% health horsemen, having lost both warriers, against Japan, the only civ NOT in the classical era, and who had a single archer.
In these stories that I'm reading, it seems similiar to mine. A small change, military ratio goes from 50/50 to 52/48 in your favor, and the AI panicks and gives the human player everything.
In my case, the only thing that I could think of that could cause this is that a horsemen popped from one of cities. Now that I had TWO horsemen, I dunno, it may have pushed the military advisor's assessment from even to slightly in my favor. Certainly, Russia was in no actual danger from me, before or after my second horsemen. In between us lay Greece, which even with my two horsemen is "wayyy more powerful" than me according to my military advisor.
This is definitely a bug, and it is basically the AI commiting suicide.
Evocatus
Chieftain
Odd indeed. I already experienced this issue while playing the demo. After I took Caesar's third city (which was built far away from his borders, and right outside mine) and rushed to his second, he offered me peace, a free passage, the city that I was going to attack and some gold. he would only have Rome left. Same bug, I'm guessing, though having less impact.
It would suck if mutual AI conquests were largely dependent on city offerings like these. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.
It would suck if mutual AI conquests were largely dependent on city offerings like these. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.
Scaramanga
Brickhead
I don't have Civ Cinqo yet but am I to believe that you can "resurrect" destroyed civilizations by liberating their cities?
So the AI is trolling us in game?
Theodorick
King
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2006
- Messages
- 624
So far I've had the AI surrender like this when THEY declared war on me, and I beat their invading army and just started entering their border territory. I may have had all of my army there, leaving my entire empire virtually undefended, while they still had a large army, but they just seemed to freak out after their invasion failed, and nearly completely capitulate to me. If they didn't throw cities at me, they still gave everything else they could possibly give up.
digitalcraft
Warlord
I'm guessing there's a programming error where some value ends up about a factor of 10 off. Because I've had caesar go from demanding all of my resources for peace to the very next turn offering everything he had for peace.
MadRat
Cheese Raider
Indeed it seems some kind of variable calculation seems to be inverted in the game. It is very funny that a skinned knee bring about a complete capitulation but a royal arse kicking on the enemy hardly gets you diddly.
Along with the GTP bug and the always says no to counter proposals bug - it seems diplomacy is a tad messed.
Rat
Along with the GTP bug and the always says no to counter proposals bug - it seems diplomacy is a tad messed.
Rat
Preacherman
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
- Messages
- 45
OMG, that's true AI. It's indistinguishable from human behavior. Civ AI's will take over the world and nuke us all to hell if we refuse to hand over our gold coins.
The Leviathan
Warlord
I love the new diplomacy system but this definitely is a problem, they need to fix the AI in negotiations.
vranasm
Deity
There are 2 problems...
1) Imagine the AIs capitulate in such way between self! All you peacemongers should really really pay attention, since it could be not unusual to meet AIs with literally 20+cities from absorbing neighbors
2) There is no way after you losed your army to get another one quickly. The game design horribly failed in this aspect. They have there those supply limits...why not use them and make units cheap? You can't make more then that...
This way the AI was right...he had no chance to come back, since his army was completely wiped (except for 3 underpowered units) and I would start steamrolling with him getting first units in something like 10-15 turns depending on city production.
And there is another one...
the AI battles even worse then Panzer General I...and that is a lot to say... the limited movement and not enough tiles is very limiting for AI too.
And AIs really badly calculate their odds, seeing the battle outcome and the land, he shouldnt declare with 2:1 power...it was needed at least 3-4:1, and in medieval sieges that easily came to 10:1 ratio needed.
1) Imagine the AIs capitulate in such way between self! All you peacemongers should really really pay attention, since it could be not unusual to meet AIs with literally 20+cities from absorbing neighbors
2) There is no way after you losed your army to get another one quickly. The game design horribly failed in this aspect. They have there those supply limits...why not use them and make units cheap? You can't make more then that...
This way the AI was right...he had no chance to come back, since his army was completely wiped (except for 3 underpowered units) and I would start steamrolling with him getting first units in something like 10-15 turns depending on city production.
And there is another one...
the AI battles even worse then Panzer General I...and that is a lot to say... the limited movement and not enough tiles is very limiting for AI too.
And AIs really badly calculate their odds, seeing the battle outcome and the land, he shouldnt declare with 2:1 power...it was needed at least 3-4:1, and in medieval sieges that easily came to 10:1 ratio needed.
In theory the cataclysmic potential of failure should temper the desire for war. The maxim of "who dares wins" applied to AI fails to address contingency plans for failure.
I had this happen in my first game also.
I went to war with Egypt in the Medieval period & took like one of their cities & was closing in on another. I think they had maybe 5-6 cities all together. They asked for peace & were willing to give me 3 of their 5 or 6 cities, some luxuries, gold, etc. I thought it was kind of weird, especially after being used to the AI in Civ 4 that wouldnt talk to you at all even if you were beating down the gate to their capital.
Interestingly enough though later on in the Modern age I went to war with them again, & this time I had to wipe them out. I had a giant army of tank right at their last city & they wouldnt negotiate peace at all. I thought that was really weird since the first time I stomped them they were willing to give up half their empire.
I went to war with Egypt in the Medieval period & took like one of their cities & was closing in on another. I think they had maybe 5-6 cities all together. They asked for peace & were willing to give me 3 of their 5 or 6 cities, some luxuries, gold, etc. I thought it was kind of weird, especially after being used to the AI in Civ 4 that wouldnt talk to you at all even if you were beating down the gate to their capital.
Interestingly enough though later on in the Modern age I went to war with them again, & this time I had to wipe them out. I had a giant army of tank right at their last city & they wouldnt negotiate peace at all. I thought that was really weird since the first time I stomped them they were willing to give up half their empire.
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