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Raliuven SG3.5 Regent

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Raliuven, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    3,795
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    Northern VA
    Please see my signature. :)

    I'm off to summer camp next week, so feel free to skip me, if you all get around to me.
     
  2. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,231
    Location:
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    0 1050 AD

    Rush 3 gallons and drop our treasury to 28 gold.
    Drop science to 0%, Replaceable Parts in 14, +784 gpt, 28 gold.

    Set a contiental rally point near the capital. This is feasible since most of our cities are connected by rails. Newly produced units will automove to this spot.

    However, there is a catch. This rally point is only applied to cities that are making units at the current time. If another city goes from a building build (like barracks or library) to building Cavalry, those units built by that city will not move to the rally point. It has to unset and then reset. Not a big issue, just a small gotcha.
    [IBT]
    Stop a Carthage Knight (1 of 1).

    Military -> military builds are not recorded. Nor are worker -> worker or settler -> settler.

    Resistance in Leptis Minor.
    Aqueduct pop-up for Hyangsan.
    Resistance in Nora ends; civil disorder begins; make everybody geeks.



    1 1060 AD

    War

    Theveste (6)
    Cavalry runs away (1 of 2).
    Cavalry becomes Elite (2 of 3).
    Cavalry takes Numidain Mercenary (3 of 4).
    Cavalry snipes Numidain Mercenary (4 of 5).
    eCav faces down Longbow (5 of 6, 0 of 1e).

    Good News
    We add another city from Carthage, gaining 0 gold and three resisters; worker in 10.
    We take an Iron from Carthage.

    Rail to Theveste.

    Whack a Knight outside of Theveste (6 of 7).

    Cadiz (3)
    Cavalry runs away (6 of 8).
    Next one doesn't (7 of 9).
    Nor does the followup (8 of 10).
    eCavalry has no trouble with a Longbow (9 of 11, 0 of 2e).

    Good News
    We gain a slave, 0 gold and 1 resister; worker in 10.

    Cadiz is connected to Leptis Minor but Leptis Minor is not connected to our capital.

    Uskudar (3)
    City is not defended; just move in a Cavalry.

    Good News
    Again, 0 gold, but no resisters; worker in 10.


    Utica (8)
    Cavalry dies, our first unit lost (9 of 12).
    Next one only retreats (9 of 13).
    As does the next (9 of 14).
    Check the terrain; we are not attacking across a river.
    Lose another Cavalry, total of two so far (9 of 15).
    Cavalry takes down a defending Knight (10 of 16).
    eCav rides down Numidan Mercenary (11 of 17, 0 of 3e).
    eKnight takes out a second one (12 of 18, 0 of 4e).

    Good News
    Still, 0 gold; three resisters; worker in 10.

    Call out a Knight near Red Rover, Red Rover; he doesn't come over very well (13 of 19).
    Knight goes Elite thanks to a Mace near Theveste (14 of 20).

    Sulcis (4)
    Knight retreats from Numidan Mercenary (14 of 21).
    Follow-up does the same (14 of 22).
    eKnight does better (15 of 23, 0 of 5e).
    Follow-up does the same (16 of 24, 0 of 6e).

    Good News
    As always, 0 gold but two slaves and two resisters; worker in 10.

    Find and name Galleons A to F.

    Rush more Galleons.


    Workers
    Opps! Not all cities are railed. Need to fix that but it will take a while.
    We have way too many solo workers making rails. Send them to the capital to be sorted into stacks of 6 so that we can rail a roaded tile in one turn. Towards the front lines we do have 1 turn railing stacks but they are mixed stacks (workers and slaves). Send them to the capital to be segregated and reassigned.
    Red Light is built on a hill NW of Leptis Minor.
    Red Rover, Red Rover is placed to make Utica within striking distance of our Cavalry.
    From Red Rover we rail to Leptis Minor.
    Rail to Shuruppak.
    Rail to Utica.
    Rail to Nora.
    Rail to In The Middle.

    Our core could be more productive if we had more rails. I'll try to allocate our slaves to that task, leaving most of our workers for front line duty.
    [IBT]
    Knight suicides at Utica (17 of 25).

    Tell Wilaya: market -> vRifle in 8.
    Fish Town: harbor -> vFrigate in 30.


    2 1070 AD


    War

    Hippo (9)
    Numidan Mercenary retreats eCav (17 of 26).
    vCav fares better (18 of 27).
    ecav takes down wounded Numidan and promotes! (19 of 28, 1 of 7e).
    We gain Cavalry of Hippo and Naboplasser.

    Good News
    Hippo is ours. We gain Knights Templar, another bag of 0 gold and 3 resisters; annoit all non resisers as geeks and start on a worker.

    Do some fog busting and have mapped all 8 Carthagian cities.

    Leptis Manga (7)
    Take out one Numidan Mercenary (20 of 29).
    Second defender just crumbles (21 of 30).

    Good News
    Another clump of confused Carthage citizens consider their crimson conquerors. Three of them cling to their old ways. Geekfest and build-a-worker.

    Rail to our new city.

    Crunch a Crusader (22 of 31).

    Carthage (9)
    1st Cav Army destroys two Numbians (24 of 33).
    Next Numidan has enough gumption to kill our vCav (24 of 34).
    Crusader isn't so lucky (25 of 35).
    The gumption filled Numidan Mercenary redlines a second vCav and then dies (26 of 36).

    Good News
    Carthage is ours, along with The Great Library, which we don't need and can't use. Four stubborn citizens; Geekout and worker time.

    Hadrumetum (7)
    Current capital of Carthage.
    Cavalry falls to Numidan (26 of 37).
    Next one retreats (26 of 38).
    Numidan falls to Cavalry (27 of 39).
    Cavalry promotes to Elite over Numidan (28 of 40).

    Good News
    We gain another city but only two resisters; geeks and worker.


    Oea (5)
    Cavalry goes Elite (29 of 41).
    Cavalry just wins (30 of 42).

    Good News
    Still no gold from a captured city and 4 citizens that cling to the illusory former glory.

    Clobber two free range Crusaders (32 of 44).

    Four cities are left, but we can only take three next turn. The fourth will require us to invade Spain.

    Workers
    After the fighting, we rail to Hippo.
    Naboplassar goes to Babylon and rushes Military Academy.
    Galleons I to L.
    Begin some Frigates for Galleon protection.

    Raise science to 70%, Replacable Parts in 4, +102 gpt, 578 gold.


    At this point, it looks like we take what we can of Carthage and then regroup to fight Spain on the following turn. We'll keep the cities that border Spain, the other can be razed.
    [IBT]
    Lose an exposed Cavalry to a Knight (32 of 45).

    Military Academy is completed in Babylon. We can build Armies now.

    Babylon: Military Academy -> Army in 18.
    Telloh: market -> cannon in 4.
    Manp'o: aqueduct -> cannon in 8.

    3 1080 AD

    War
    Remove the Knight take took out the calvarly on the IBT (33 of 46).

    Sabratha (6)
    Use Knights first since the other targets will have to be attacked by Cavalry, due to forests at Rusicade and the distance to Cirta.
    eKnight makes hash of Numidan Mercenary (34 of 47, 1 of 8e).
    vKnight repeats this feat (35 of 48).
    Wounded eKnight is able to deal with rLongbow (36 of 49, 1 of 9e).

    Good News
    Sabratha is subjugated; no gold, 2 resisters, geeks and worker. We have another Spanish border.

    Cirta (5), capital
    3 vCav outmatch 3 Numidan Mercenary (39 of 52).

    Good News
    Another new city; no gold, three resisters, hire one geek, start a worker, enjoy the Spanish border.


    Rusicade (6), capital
    First attack is repulsed and we lose another Cavalry (39 of 53).
    Next one succeeds (40 of 54).

    Good News
    We raze Rusicade, since need to be mindful of how much of the planet we occupy. We gain two slaves.

    City taking is done for this turn. Carthage has only one city remaining.

    We grab three slaves.

    eKnight out crusades a Crusader (41 of 55, 1 of 10e).


    Workers
    Frigate 01.
    Connect SeasideShores.
    Build Red Planet 2E of Hippo, to make access to Rusicade easier.
    Connect Hadrumetum.
    Build Flying Red Bastein 2SE of Hadrumetum to make access to Sabratha easier.
    Connect Carthage.
    Connect Cirta.
    Connect Sabratha.

    Think we'll need this next turn to get ready to attack Spain. Lots of units wandering around that we need to kill. And their UU, the Conquistador, can move up to 6 tiles per turn, which gives it a lot of depth and it can take undefended interior cities.
    [IBT]
    We get a boot from Spain without any warning. We let them move automatically.

    Carthage wants to talk. Peace for Peace. We laugh.

    4 1090 AD

    War
    eKnight is undone by Carthage Mace (41 of 56).
    Wounded eKnight gets revenge (42 of 57, 1 of 11e).

    Spain has four cities outside their core. Faro and Carthago Novo are rather close together and surrounded by flat land. Santander is near Molde Bread, also on flat land. Asturias is the tough one, coastal and surrounded by jungle. This city is very close to many of our cities. Not great cities, but that is not the point. If Asturias has a Conquistador or two, we could lose cities or workers. So it has to be taken early on.

    Workers
    Blast! Move a stack of 24 workers onto an unroaded tile!
    [IBT]
    Santandar has at least one Conquistdor.

    5 1100 AD

    War
    Nada.

    Workers
    Railing for war next turn.

    Drop science to 50%, Replaceable Parts in 1, +256 gpt, 206 gold.
    [IBT]
    Replaceable Parts -> Industrialization in 5 at 50%.

    Light Bay Horses: market -> vInfantry in 9.
    West Coast: harbor -> wealth.

    6 1110 AD

    War
    Frigate01 arrives in Oslo.
    Try to bully Spain's 38 gold but they won't give it. So we declare War.

    Asturias (1)
    First Cavalry Army rides over a Pike (43 of 58).

    Good News
    The city is autorazed. We gain 1 gold.

    Santander (3)
    Two vKnights overpower the Pikes defending (45 of 60).

    Good News
    Santander is no longer Spanish. We gain another gold coin and two resisters.
    vCav deals with nearby Conquistador (46 of 61).


    Faro (8)
    Two Pikes foil 6 attacks, killing two vCav (46 of 67).
    Two vCav prevail over them (48 of 69).

    Good News
    One gold piece of tribute and no resisters, all the citizens are Portugesse.

    We lose 3 Cav taking down four Conquistadors at Faro (52 of 76).

    Carthago Novo (3)
    vCav has no trouble with vPike (53 of 77).

    Good News
    Still only one gold piece; two resisters; start a worker.

    Eight Elite units go leader hunting; six Longbow and 2 warriors are gleefully engaged and destroyed but no MGL (61 of 85, 1 of 19e).

    Snuff out a Conquistador between Newcastle and Murcia (62 of 86).
    eCav buries another one near Canterbury (63 of 87, 1 of 20e).

    Santiago (8)
    Three Pikes are not enough to stop 3 vCavs (66 of 90).

    Good News
    One gold, five resisters; we hire two taxmen and start a worker.

    Zaragoza (12)
    Three rPikes cost us one vCav (69 of 94).

    Good News
    For 2 gold pieces we also gain 11 resisters, the entire city population.

    See and destroy another Conquistador inside Spanish borders (70 of 95).


    Workers
    We have six sources of Rubber connected.

    Red Alert bridges the gap between Santiago and Zaragoza.

    Rail to a lot of cities.

    Geeks become taxmen.

    Drop science to 0%, Industrialization in 50, +1071 gpt, 33 gold.
    Three geeks remain in Seoul; they are our science team.

    Now to survive Conquistador counter attacks.
    [IBT]
    We lose 2 vCav and counter punch 2 Conquistadors (72 of 99).

    Reykjavik: courthouse -> barracks in 4.
    Ashur: barracks -> aqueduct in 50.

    7 1120 AD

    War
    Murcia (11)
    Exploring vCav retreats from vPike (72 of 100).
    Two rPikes fall and then we face the wounded vPike, which kills a vCav (74 of 103).
    eCav runs down Longbow (75 of 104, 1 of 21e).
    eCav avenges the fallen on the 1/4 Pike (76 of 105, 1 of 22e).

    Good News
    No gold, one slave and 10 resisters. Great city.

    eCav tramples a Spanish Spear (77 of 106, 1 of 23e).
    Conquer a Conquistador (78 of 107).


    Seville (6)
    Pike is punked (79 of 108).
    Two eCavs pounce on 2 rPikes (81 of 110, 1 of 25e).
    vCav backhands a Longbow (82 of 111).

    Good News
    The Hanging Gardens are now ours, as are 4 more resisters.

    Spear is skewered (83 of 112).

    Spain has 8 cities; Carthage 1.

    Workers
    Rail in the core.
    [IBT]
    No counter attacks.

    Aiur: market -> barracks in 6.

    8 1130 AD

    War

    Madrid (12) capital
    First Cavalry Army drops 5 HP taking out vPike (83 of 112).
    2nd Cav Army cleans out 2 rPikes (85 of 114).
    We lose one vCav, retreat once and finally take out 3 more rPikes (88 of 119).

    Good News
    We gain control of Sun Tzu's Art of War. No gold and 6 resisters.

    Vitoria (6)
    Two Pikes defend; two Pikes are now gone (90 of 121).

    Good News
    No gold and three resisters.

    eKnight dispatches Longbow outside Zaragoza (91 of 122, 1 of 26e).

    Barcelona (12)
    eCav retreats from vPike (91 of 123).
    vCav knocks off rPike (92 of 124).
    eKnight expunges rPike (93 of 125, 1 of 27e).
    Followup eKnight repeats that (94 of 126, 1 of 28e).
    eCav takes rPike (95 of 127, 1 of 29e).
    eCav faces the vPike and promotes (96 of 128, 2 of 30e).
    Cavalry of Barcelona and Nebuchadnezzar.
    vKnight kill crippled Conquistador (97 of 129).

    Good News
    The Mausoleum of Mausollos is now ours to enjoy. No gold; six resisters and one slave. We gain more Gems, too.

    Nebuchadnezzar goes to Babylon and builds Third Cavalry Army.


    Pamplona (6)
    vCav trumps vPike (98 of 130).
    vPike trumps vCav (98 of 131).
    eCav triumphs over vPike (99 of 132, 2 of 31e).
    eCav smites Longbow (100 of 133, 2 of 32e).

    Good News
    As usual, no gold and 3 resisters.

    Have 7 vCav ready to go, but not at the moment.

    Workers
    Rail, rail, rail.
    [IBT]
    Stop one Conquistador at Citra (101 of 134).

    Pentagon, anyone? Maybe.

    Heroic Epic finishes in Mr. Ed.
    Mr. Ed: Heroic Epic -> Pentagon in 19.

    Palace Expansion; build second story connecting hallway on stage left.

    9 1140 AD

    War
    Load 3 vCavs into Third Cavalry Army.

    Salamanca (12) capital
    Third Cavalry Army loses 12 HP taking out 2 Pikes (103 of 136).
    eCav is bested by rPike (103 of 137).
    1/4 Pike redlines our eCav before it succumbs (104 of 138, 2 of 33e).

    Good News
    Salamanca is now Babylonian Red; 3 gold, 8 resisters; worker and taxmen.


    Toledo (11) capital
    vCav perishes attacking vPike across a river (104 of 139).
    2nd Cav Army (11/14) is called up and vPike is gone (105 of 140).
    vCav has no problem with rPike (106 of 141).
    Nor does followup eCav (107 of 142, 2 of 34e).
    eCav knocks down Longbow (108 of 143, 2 of 35e).

    Good News
    Two slaves, 3 gold and 9 resisters; worker is begun and taxmen are hired.

    Valencia (9) capital
    vCav wins, eCav dies (109 of 145).
    vCav dies, eCav wins (110 of 147, 2 of 36e).
    eCav wins and promotes (111 of 148, 3 of 37e).
    Cavalry of Valencia and Agum.

    Good News
    Valencia gives up 4 gold for 6 resisters; worker and taxmen.

    Rail to Valencia, Agum goes to Mr. Ed and rushes Pentagon.

    Rail to the outskirts of Oxford.

    Oxford (4) capital
    eKnight is lost to vPike (111 of 149).
    Grab two wandering Spanish workers.
    vKnight slashes down vPike (112 of 150).
    vKnight reigns supreme over vPike (113 of 151).

    Good News
    We gain 8 gold before we raze the city. We gain a slave.

    Better News
    Spain is dead.

    We rail to the outskirts of Rusaddir.

    Rusaddir (2) capital
    vCav spits on Numidan Mercenary (114 of 152).
    vCav roasts NM on a spit (115 of 153).

    Good News
    The city is razed but Carthage is still alive.

    Workers
    Frigate 04 to 07.
    Galleons M to P.

    Move unused military units to cities to shut down the Spanish resisters now that their kingdom is gone.

    Sell 23 barracks since we now have Sun Tzu's. Should have done this last turn. We gain 230 gold.
    [IBT]
    Oh, my. I didn't think the AI could be so, well, AIish.

    Carthage (0) declares War on the Mongols (21).

    :shake:

    Trondheim: aqueduct -> wealth.

    Pentagon is built in Mr. Ed.
    Mr. Ed: Pentagon -> vCav in 4.
    We lost our supply of Furs from the Aztecs.


    10 1150 AD

    The last city of Carthage is on the Mongolian border north of Uskudar.

    War

    Malaca (1) capital
    eCav faces rNumidan Mercenary; Cav retreats (115 of 154).
    eCav tramples Numidan Mercanary (116 of 155, 3 of 38e).

    Good News
    This wide spot in the road is out of our misery.

    Better News
    And that takes care of that.

    Workers
    Rail.
    Used wounded units from last turn to garrison resisting cities. All should heal on the IBT, since each city now has a barracks. When those were used up, normal vCavs were used.

    Ten vCav are outside the capital.

    Frigate08 and Galleon Q.
    [IBT]

    And the save is attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Messages:
    8,231
    Location:
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Randomly Ordered Stuff

    Spain is dead.
    Carthage is dead.

    Mongols are next.

    We now control Sun Tzu's Art of War.
    We built Military Academy, Heroic Epic and Pentagon.

    We learned Replaceable Parts and then we stopped getting smarter, though we are getting richer.

    In Olso are Galleons A to P. Galleon C2 (so named because I outsmarted myself) is on its way to Oslo just 2NE of that port city. Galleon Q is down by Dover, headed north.
    Frigate 01, 03 and 08 are 4E of Oslo to protect the first transfer point of our ship chain to the New World.

    That assumes that we want to move due East. And eventually we will, but maybe not a first.

    The problem is that to conquer the island due east of us is that it only contains two cities, one of Japan and the other of Aztec. SE of that island is another small island with one visible Aztec city but the borders indicate a second city. SE of this island is the Aztec mainland. Landing here could be tricky if we are at war when we land.

    Instead, we could build two cities on the Aztec mainland before we go to war and build up our forces at our leisure. There is a small strip of plains and forest that the Aztec have not settled. If we put a city on the western coast of that strip and the other one a bit inland, on the choke point, we would have an excellent launching pad for that war.

    However, it will take four transfer points to make such a route. To ship units across each turn we would need five ships sailing east and five more sailing west. That would let us send over 4 units each turn. We would probably want to be able so send more, at least 8 per turn. To send 8 units per turn we will need 20 Galleons; we have 17 at the moment and can easily rush three more.

    The nearest Aztec mainland city is Tlalmanalco.

    Other Frigates are headed to Oslo.

    We have a unit inside Mongolian borders resting on the ruins of Rusicade. Expect a boot order.

    We have unused units parked around the capital. One of each stack is still active.

    We did rail up to the Mongol border in places.

    Most of our cities are connected.

    There might be some units on automove, headed to the rally point near the capital. But at most that is two units.

    We are at 10% Luxury, 0% Science and 90% Tax.

    Industrialization in 46 turns, +1059 gpt, 2593 gold.

    We won 116 of 155 rounds of combat. We lost around 10 units in the 39 defeats; the rest were retreats. We gained 3 MGLs in 38 Elite Victories. We rushed Military Academy, Pentagon and built one army with the MGLs.
     
  4. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Very nice! Spain destroyed without any significant counter attacks! The Mongols should be pushovers.

    Roster
    Raliuven
    CommandoBob (he came, he saw, he kicked butt)
    Verarde (Playing . . . and he's all out of bubblegum . . .)
    Toxicman007 (on deck)
    Elephantium (waiting)
     
  5. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
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    3,795
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Ah, I am up. Hmmk. Good thing I just got back. Got it.

    I have nothing going on all week, so I'll do my best to play this quickly!
     
  6. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Northern VA
    Huh. Well, I currently cannot find my Civ3 disc, so you'll have to skip me this time around. :/ Hopefully I'll find it soon!
     
  7. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
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    Northern VA
    Well, seeing as how nobody has picked up, I found my disc today. I'll start playing right now!
     
  8. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Turn Set Report -- 1160 AD - 1200 AD

    Military -> Military builds are unrecorded, as are Settler-> settler and worker -> worker.

    Pre-Turn - 1150 AD
    A little bit of micro management.

    IBT
    Nada.

    Turn 1 - 1160 AD
    Got the Mongols to DoW on us.

    We capture Batshireet.
    We capture Ereen.
    We capture Barrun-Urt.
    We capture Mandalgovi.
    We capture Dalandzadgad.
    We capture Choybalsan.
    We capture Almarikh.
    We capture Ulaangom.
    We capture Atlay.
    We capture Ulaanbaatar.
    We capture Hovd.


    IBT
    A few minor counterattacks from the Mongols, but nothing serious.


    Turn 2 - 1170 AD

    We capture Tosontsengel.
    We destroy Uliastay.



    I build embassies in the Aztec, Zulu, and Japanese capitals, just because we can afford it now. :p

    IBT
    More minor counterattacks.

    Turn 3 - 1180 AD

    We capture Ta-Tu.
    We capture Karakorum, which contains The Great Wall!
    We capture Darhan.
    We capture Tsetserleg.
    We capture Choyr.


    We get a Military Leader from a skirmish with a Longbow...I go and create yet another army with him.

    Found San Diego where Uliastay was.

    IBT
    Nada.

    Turn 4 - 1190 AD

    We capture Tabriz.
    We capture Kazan.



    IBT


    Turn 5 - 1200 AD

    We capture Erdenet.

    The Mongols are destroyed.

    I'm going to cut myself off here, because I confess that I don't fully understand the "ship chain" idea, and I don't want to screw us up. :) Glad to have taken care of the Mongols for us, though.

    Here's the save. It's still in the middle of the 1200 AD turn.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    8,231
    Location:
    Too near The Temple of Jerry Jones
    Good job on taking out the Mongols!

    Ship Chains
    A ship chain is designed and used to move units from one continent to another in one turn. This avoids having land units loaded in ships at sea during the IBT, where they could be sunk by opposing units (or by misguided submarines!). Land units can be moved in ships and it does not affect their land based movement.

    There are three limiting factors in ship chains. One, is the transport capacity of the ships used. Two is the distance involved. Three is production of units.

    In action, we would load 4 Cavalry into Galleon01 in Oslo. Oslo is on our rail net, so we can safely assume that all 4 units will arrive with 0MPs spent on movement. Galleon01 sails 4 east and stops, its movement points exhausted. However, Galleon02 moved into that same tile on an earlier turn, so the 4 Cavalry can be moved from Galleon01 into Galleon02. This move has no movement costs. Galleon02 can now move 4 more sea tiles. It could meet another Galleon (and transfer the Cavalry into that Galleon), unload the Cavalry onto a land tile (where they are stuck until next turn) or sail into a friendly city where the Cavalry could unload. If the Cavalry unload in a city, they still have all their unused movement available.

    If enough ships are available, we can ship chain units across each turn; the loaded ones moving 4E and the empty ones moving 4W. That is, Galleon01 sails 4E from Oslo and Galleon04 sails 4W into Oslo. Next turn, Galleon04 loads up and sails 4E and Galleon01 sails 4W back into Oslo. Otherwise, Galleon01 sails 4E from Oslo (loaded) and next turn it sails 4W back into the city (empty).

    The benefit of a ship chain is getting just produced units overseas quickly. We could also ship an MGL back to the mainland from the New World just as quickly.

    The drawbacks of a ship chain are that they are fragile and need several defenders apiece at each transfer point. It is also tedious. Without individual ship names, it is very confusing, since the ship to ship dialog box does not indicate how much movement a ship has remaining. Finally, you need to be able to fill up at least one ship each turn or it seems useless; a whole lot of work to move just one Cavalry and one Worker.

    The longer a ship is the more work it becomes. After a while it becomes easier to have a line of fully loaded ships sailing overseas than to mess with a ship chain. Since we have an in-game deadline we may need to keep a ship chain active; time will tell.
     
  10. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
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    So, it's a bit of an exploit then?
    I'll still sit back and watch someone else do it. :)
     
  11. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I'll need a skip in this game, too.
     
  12. Toxicman007

    Toxicman007 Custom User Title

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    No idea about this ship chain thing, and personally I feel it's cheating, so give me a skip.
     
  13. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Exploit?

    :hmm:

    Well, in the CivIII Hall of Fame it is listed as an acceptable exploit, which places it in the same category as using F10 in 3950 BC to see which civs are in the game.

    It is does take some effort and planning to get one set up and thus it feels different from 'cheating', at least to me. Sitting back and watching how it is done is a good idea!

    I consider it a tactic, not a cheat or exploit.

    In contrast, I don't use F10 to know the opposing civs, but that is my personal preference. I don't consider F10 an exploit or a cheat. I just don't want to know until I meet them in the game.

    Who's UP?
    I am currently up in Rat44, a CCM game, so I won't be able to get to this game until the weekend.
     
  14. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

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    Raliuven is up, I believe.

    Okay, I'm not seeing it as an exploit. Reason being is that it could conceivably be done in real life.
     
  15. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    With the passing it looks like I am up so I've got the save.

    Sorry to have missed the conversation; I've been getting killed at work the last month or so.

    Regarding the shipchain - I can see both sides of the argument. In my opinion I don't see it as an cheat because 1) it takes effort and resources dedicated to making it function and 2) the ship chain can be disrupted by enemy movement. While it does have the effect of keeping our units safe from attacks, to me it serves a more important function. I a game where you can railroad your entire army across the continient and back as many times as you wish, the naval aspect of the game is severely limited. The ship chain basically simulates this instant movement. Rather than laying rails we need to build the boats.

    The big difference is that the AI will not use this tactic, so it may be seen as an exploit. But is it really more of an exploit than say, using an army?

    However everyone has their threshold for 'exploits'. I don't think that settler factories or ship chains are exploits but I will not use ROP abuse or intentional resources disconnects. I also frown upon using armies to pillage deep inside enemy territory because they are safe from attack.

    At least that is my opinion. I will get the shipchain set up and then we can debate more if there are any strong objections. Sound good?
     
  16. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Overseas 1150 AD


    The map hasn't changed much in 1200 AD; the Aztec borders are the same.

    So, where do we invade? We have two islands and the mainland to consider.

    I would like for us to consider building on the Light Blue Dot before we declare war on anyone else. This will allow us to assemble a strong force overseas and get roads and rails built (maybe). We won't face the common invasion scenario of unloading our forces and having to suffer through a round of counterattacks before we can attack.

    The problem with this location is that is far away. Four turns away from Oslo. Green Circle, Green Dot, Green Dot and then either Light Blue Line (through Chalco) or 1SE-E-E-E (which is not marked on the map).

    The Yellow Line and Dots represent 4 moves from the southern Green Dot.

    To ship chain this far will have three transfer points (Green Circle and both Green Dots), which will require 2 or 3 Frigates at each location. To move 4 units from Oslo to Light Blue Dot will require 4 Galleons each way. If we want to send four units a turn, we will need 8 Galleons (4 sailing eastward (loaded) and 4 sailing westward (empty)). If we plan to send 8 units a turn we will need 16 Galleons.

    Instead of ship chaining we can also just load up 2 Galleons a turn and send them towards the New World, knowing it will take 4 turns before they arrive.

    At present we have 8 Frigates and 17 Galleons. So we can do this right now, if we desire.

    We have 76 Cavalry and 4 Armies of Cavalry. And 153 Workers and 24 Settlers. We have built The Pentagon in Mr Ed and loaded 4 Cavalry into two Armies, making them too large to fit into a Galleon. The 1st Cav Army, in Almarikh, and the unnamed Army in nearby Erdenet, can be shipped overseas. The 76 Cavalry includes 14 units in our armies, so we have 60+ 'free' Cavalry to use.

    So how would we set this up? On this turn, sail GalleonQ and Frigate06 into Oslo. Frigate06 can do this by going through East Coast. Frigate07 sails towards the Geen Circle, but won't make it this turn. Rush the frigate under construction in Oslo; it will cost 220 gold but we have over 6500 in gold; we can afford it.

    Next turn, we load up 3 Galleons; an Army goes in one, another gets a Settler, a defender (Infantry or Rifleman) and two Cavalry and the third one gets 4 Workers. We need 16 Galleons and we have 17, so we'll use the 'extra' one here. We leave 2 Galleons in Oslo; the rest and all the Frigates sail 4E to the Green Circle.

    The following turn we leave 4 empty Galleons at Green Circle and wake one of the fortified Frigates at Green Circle. The 6 Frigates and 11 Galleons sail 4SE to the northern Green Dot. Frigate07 arrives at Green Circle and fortifies.

    On the third turn we fortify 3 Frigates at the northern Green Dot and leave 4 empty Galleons behind. The rest sail 4SE again ending up at 2W of Chalco (Aztec).

    On the fourth turn we fortify 2 Frigates and leave 4 empty Galleons. The 3 loaded Galleons, with a lone Frigate defender, sail through Aztec waters to unload on Light Blue Dot.

    On the fifth turn we build our city and start on a harbor (for coal and iron for railroads). The workers move onto adjacent fiorest tiles, 2 each, to chop then next turn and help out the harbor build before we rush it. The Frigate and Galleons offshore sail back to the southern Green Dot. The Frigate will fortify. In Oslo, we load up the 2 Galleons and sail them to Green Circle. At Green Circle, we send 2 Galleons back into Oslo, transfer the units to 2 other Galleons and sail them 4SE to the northern Green Dot. Here we transfer units, send 2 Galleons back to Green Circle and send the transferred units 4SE. Once there, 2 Galleons sail 4NW and the other two swap loads and proudly sail into our new city and unload their cargo.

    On the sixth turn we repeat what we did on turn five and send 8 more units across. In our new city, both forest chops should start and finish and we can rush the harbor for a little less cash. And then we are able to build rails in the New World, which no one else can do. The Zulus are stuck in the Ancient Age while neither Japan or Aztecs have Muskets yet. If we want rails here we'll have to build them ourselves.

    We keep the ship chain going for as long as we need. We don't have to have all of our Cavalry overseas before we attack but we would probably want at least 30 Cavalry, in additon both smaller Cavalry Armies and one larger Army that we can fill upon that side of the pond. We'll need around the same number of Workers, too, to connect the few new cities that we can keep and to lay rails to the front lines. Plus Infantry defenders for our Workers.

    Looking into the future, if we can capture Izumo (southern tip of the Aztec continent) we can raze Kagoshima and build a city 1NW of its ruins. This location in Japan is 4S of Izumo, one turn away for Galleons.

    Going this route, we leave Matsuyama alone until we are ready to attack Japan. Once we do we just divert a Galleon or two that direction and take out the city. Ixtapaluca, also on the island, would probably wind up being the last Aztec city.

    This is a bit detailed but it is not written in stone. It is one way to proceed but not the only way. Whether we use a ship chain in one turn or use four turns to send units across, we still face the same limitations. The ship chain would give us more flexibilty in determining what we send each turn but we can still only send 8 units per turn in either mode.
     
  17. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Minnesota
    Goals
    Conquest by 1420AD (Turn 274; 39 turns to go)
    Establish Ship Chain to eastern continent.
    Start war with Aztecs.
    Will not trip the Domination Limit.

    Civilian units:
    Settler: 24
    Workers: 153
    Slaves: ??? (plenty)

    Military units:
    Muskets: 1
    Knights: 23
    Rifleman: 2
    Cavalry: 76
    Infantry: 1
    Galley: 1
    Caravel: 2
    Frigate: 8
    Galleon: 17
    Army: 4 (cav 16/18, cav 11/15,

    Unit Support:
    Total Units: 312
    Allowed Units: 284
    Support Cost: 56 gpt

    Enemies/Hit list:
    Korea=>Eliminated
    Mongols=> Eliminated
    Carthage=> Eliminated
    England=>Eliminated
    Spain=> Eliminated
    Portugal=>Eliminated
    Scandinavia => Eliminated
    Ottomans=>Eliminated
    Japan=> Republic=>Strong compared to=>13 cities
    Zulu=> Despotism=>Strong compared to=>9 cities
    Aztecs=> Republic=>Strong compared to=>18 cities

    We have lot of cities. Total Enemy cities: 40.

    Victory
    Babylon % of World Area: 50
    Babylon % of World Population: 80
    Rival Remaining: 3

    Research: Sciene: 0%, Industrialization, 35 turns +840gpt, 6531gp in the bank.

    Do a round of MM. Swap Red Bull to a Infantry - we don't need any more Settlers. Make a bunch of other swaps, mostly ditching artillery which we will not need for this game. Now at +1231gpt. Swap coastal builds away from workers and settlers and to Galleon & Frigates for rushing.

    Rush Galleons on the west coast for 128gp, 116gp, 196gp, 188gp, 60gp.
    Rush Frigates for 224gp, 120gp.

    West coast is only a 3 ship chain exchange to the Aztecs and we've got the money and manpower to flood the other continent to finish in 39 turns. In order for that to happen, need to get the mass of our troops on location in my 10 turns so that next player can crush them. We will also need transport to the southern continent to destroy Zulu and Japan. This passage is a little over 2 exchanges so we can use a few ships on one end or the other to make double runs. I will have these ships in place by the end of my turn.

    Rush Galleons for Southern Invasion for 136gp, 132gp, 108gp, 180gp.
    Rush Frigates for 216gp, 216gp.

    4727gp remaining.

    My initial plan is to load every eastern galleon with troops/settlers/workers and send them in the first wave to the mainland. I will settled the city as CommandoBob suggested, just not in the way it was suggested. We will land a massive invasion force in the first wave and then I will build the ship chain in reverse using newly rushed galleons on our mainland to build out towards the returning chain. The chain should be functioning in 6 turns with a wave of nearly 70 units on site and capacity for 8-12 units dropping off each turn. The harbor should be built and connected within the same time span with a barracks to follow (maybe).

    At the same time the western passage will also be opening up and the southern force will be gathering. Additional galleons can be rushed and used to ferry troops from the northern continent to the southern continent but the conquest of Japan/Zulu will be more like an afterthought.

    The Aztecs are coming up on gunpowder but Japan and the Zulu are hopelessly behind. They'll be fodder for our cavalry.

    I intend to use some of our settlers to fill up the good land to about 56%. That will lower unit costs (which I will replace with new builds :D), give us additional unit support and more taxmen.
     
  18. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

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    Looks good. Sounds good. Rock it!
     
  19. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Hitting the Aztecs before they get Gunpowder would be great, but even if they do learn that tech they still have to build Muskets and that will take awhile.

    Vicious Cycle
    1. I like razing Aztec cities.
    2. I don't like spelling their city names.
    3. See point 1.

    With less than 40 turns to go, your plan on how to set up the ship chain makes better sense than mine. I was trying to explain how it could work for those of us who have not used it before. On my own I would do what you are doing; one big load to get things started and then work on getting the ship chain set up while the main force is at sea.
     
  20. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

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    So if I read your list correctly I should capture every Aztec city so you can have the personal satisfaction of razing them all? :lol:

    No question on the merits of you plan. The only thing that outweighs it in this particular instance is that rather than building the ship chain from the ground up we already have a MASSIVE fleet assembled for my instant :hammer: pleasure. I just wanted to explain why I wasn't going to follow the plan. If we had production or money problems (such as we didn't have the luxury of turning science off) then I think the solution would have been different.

    A ship chain tends to grow gradually in my games. As ships are added the chain's reach extends further. Since we can afford to rush the ships both in terms of gold for rushing and gold for support, that is why I picked this option instead.

    Anyway, I guess we'll see how it turns out. I will try to get at least the ship chain up and running so I can post a save on that if I can't get the entire set done.
     

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