Tunch Khan
King
The greatest catastrophe for Europe: Ottoman Conquest? Gee, that preview and the project has some issues. 
Rallying Call: Eastern European/Turkish Battles Mod, during the Renaissance!
- Thread starter Shqype
- Start date
Shqype
Shqyptar
I don't see why you don't agree. Ottoman Conquest was the greatest threat that Europe ever faced; it was able to subdue most of Eastern Europe. That only admits to the great power of the Turks, no?
Shqype said:This should help set the mood for this mod:
http://www.illyriaentertainment.com/scanderbeg.htm
Watch that trailer for a sneak preview of the documentary on the Albanian national hero Gjergj Kastrioti, otherwise known as Scanderbeg. He is one of the main players in this mod, along with the Italian powers, the Hungarians, the "Romanians," Poles, and Turks.
This trailer states a good point: while the West of Europe was developing throughout the Renaissance, the Eastern European were fighting off the Ottomans. And that, my friends, is what this mod is all about!
Please watch, enjoy, and state any comments you may have
I have just watched and liked it a lot. Only thing though, Actor playing Fatih does not have the nose
and the hat he wears is really a poor replica. 
Please use this picture in your mod (attention to the hat
)
Also, Turkish soldiers look more like Arabic, (I know it is not a big deal and you have the real pictures of the Ottoman army but people here at CFC seemed to confuse who is Turkish, Turkic people etc...) (There is a thread about Asia here that does not have Turks can you believe?
))Also about the mod: Are you gonna name Akinci leaders like (a highly experienced Akinci unit named as Malkocoglu and give 6 or 10 unexperienced Akinci units to him, so he can launch some ''akin''s to enemy territory) or you are thinking something else?
Shqype
Shqyptar
I don't know what this has to do with anything... you really went off on a tangent!Azkonus said:
The Ottoman Empire was arguably the strongest force on the face of the earth; it was a force to reckonned with. It was Europe's greatest threat as a military power and a collosus: they were organized (for the most part), were technologically advanced, and had a formidable military. That's something a Turk should take pride in. No one said anything bad about Turks as a people ...
2 questions about the mod:
1) Are you gonna put Akinci bases on the map?
2) How is it possible to play battle of Kosovo then fall of Costantinople accurately in a game like Civ? Or are you gonna provide some saves for each war? Otherwise I don't thing AI is smart enough to relocate the troops quickly and efficiently.
(PS. Did you check out the hat? )
1) Are you gonna put Akinci bases on the map?
2) How is it possible to play battle of Kosovo then fall of Costantinople accurately in a game like Civ? Or are you gonna provide some saves for each war? Otherwise I don't thing AI is smart enough to relocate the troops quickly and efficiently.
(PS. Did you check out the hat?
)
Shqype
Shqyptar
The Ottoman Empire had Arabic elements in it. Some people tend to associate Asia more with the Oriental Eastern Asians, and may consider Turkey as Europe.
Also, I don't think it's a big deal if Mehmet's nose and hat aren't big enough in this documentary. As long as we know who he is, that should be sufficient. (look at GK in CIVGold; he looks like Bismarck!) The people that are producing that documentary don't want to spend money on plastic surgery for the nose
It's possible. If I can understand how you want them done, and if it's within my skill.
Through global events. Also, the game will be altered to better reflect moving large amounts of units throughout the map.
Tunch Khan
King
About the Turkish menace:
Any foreign conquest is a catastrophe for the occupied nation. Romans were a catastrophe for the Gauls, but if you ask Romans, they brought roads and aquaducts with their civilization. Huns, Goths, Vikings, Vizigoths etc, were considered the greatest catastrophe of Europe for hundreds of years. Ask the Dutch what they think of their Spanish overlords, or 6 million European Jews and Communists what they thought was the greatest Catastrophe.
Ottomans had their own understanding of civilization and they delivered many services to the lands they occupied just like Romans. Even though the Balkan nationalism tried to wipe off Ottoman traces, the whole penninsula is full of Ottoman roads, aquaducts, bridges, mosques, hospitals, schools, caravanserais (traveller's inns), fountains and many other public services that were all free of charge for the use of the local citizens. Serbs and Croats used the last conflict to wipe off even their own natural treasures like the "Bridge of Mostar" that was even on their city's coat of arms - just because Ottomans built it! I am not even counting the fate of the mosques, or any other school or hospital buildings built around a mosque that reminded the nationalists of Ottomans.
You must also remember how the local Orthodox populations embraced the Ottomans, as they were being opressed by strict European feudalism and usually force converted to Catholicism under Catholic invadors. Ottomans gave them their religion back, and made them tax paying citizens instead of feudal serfs, which was pretty much slavery.
The decline of Ottoman empire and growing Balkan nationalism made the remote areas difficult to govern and decentralisation resulted in the corruption of the local authorities whom mostly abused their powers and lost the loyalty and respect of their population. This last phase is what all Balkan nationalist remember and make it seem like it had been like this all 600 years long. No Turk is proud of the decline period and the crime and corruption related to that. However, this does not justify to criminalise and monstrify a glorious civilization that was welcomed by the simple peasants of the land. The only resistance was from the ruling noblity and the church who lost everything along with their vast lands, incomes and privilidges, but the ordinary people were liberated from the yoke of their feudal opressors. Otherwise you cannot explain the initial peace and harmony - Pax Ottomana - that lasted for hundreds of years.
About the documentary:
It's a cheap production that is obviously suffering from the lack of finances. The lack of actors, costumes, details and appropriate historic background is a proof of this. The "Ottoman Charge" is a rip off from another cheap documentary with Arabs, as Ottoman actors and Albanian actors are never shown together. Before we criticise Mehmed II (who is a caricature
) I laughed at Scanderbeg's costume when I noticed his plastic helmet and the eagles on top of it swinging back and forth.
Also it's pretty biased to base the whole concept on Catholic Albania as if it's denying any Orthodox heritage. History is not either black or white and there is no room for grey areas in the aformentioned documentary.
"To write history one must be more than a man, since the author who holds the pen of this great justiciary must be free from all preoccupation of interest or vanity." -- Napoleon Bonaparte
Any foreign conquest is a catastrophe for the occupied nation. Romans were a catastrophe for the Gauls, but if you ask Romans, they brought roads and aquaducts with their civilization. Huns, Goths, Vikings, Vizigoths etc, were considered the greatest catastrophe of Europe for hundreds of years. Ask the Dutch what they think of their Spanish overlords, or 6 million European Jews and Communists what they thought was the greatest Catastrophe.
Ottomans had their own understanding of civilization and they delivered many services to the lands they occupied just like Romans. Even though the Balkan nationalism tried to wipe off Ottoman traces, the whole penninsula is full of Ottoman roads, aquaducts, bridges, mosques, hospitals, schools, caravanserais (traveller's inns), fountains and many other public services that were all free of charge for the use of the local citizens. Serbs and Croats used the last conflict to wipe off even their own natural treasures like the "Bridge of Mostar" that was even on their city's coat of arms - just because Ottomans built it! I am not even counting the fate of the mosques, or any other school or hospital buildings built around a mosque that reminded the nationalists of Ottomans.
You must also remember how the local Orthodox populations embraced the Ottomans, as they were being opressed by strict European feudalism and usually force converted to Catholicism under Catholic invadors. Ottomans gave them their religion back, and made them tax paying citizens instead of feudal serfs, which was pretty much slavery.
The decline of Ottoman empire and growing Balkan nationalism made the remote areas difficult to govern and decentralisation resulted in the corruption of the local authorities whom mostly abused their powers and lost the loyalty and respect of their population. This last phase is what all Balkan nationalist remember and make it seem like it had been like this all 600 years long. No Turk is proud of the decline period and the crime and corruption related to that. However, this does not justify to criminalise and monstrify a glorious civilization that was welcomed by the simple peasants of the land. The only resistance was from the ruling noblity and the church who lost everything along with their vast lands, incomes and privilidges, but the ordinary people were liberated from the yoke of their feudal opressors. Otherwise you cannot explain the initial peace and harmony - Pax Ottomana - that lasted for hundreds of years.
About the documentary:
It's a cheap production that is obviously suffering from the lack of finances. The lack of actors, costumes, details and appropriate historic background is a proof of this. The "Ottoman Charge" is a rip off from another cheap documentary with Arabs, as Ottoman actors and Albanian actors are never shown together. Before we criticise Mehmed II (who is a caricature
) I laughed at Scanderbeg's costume when I noticed his plastic helmet and the eagles on top of it swinging back and forth. Also it's pretty biased to base the whole concept on Catholic Albania as if it's denying any Orthodox heritage. History is not either black or white and there is no room for grey areas in the aformentioned documentary.
"To write history one must be more than a man, since the author who holds the pen of this great justiciary must be free from all preoccupation of interest or vanity." -- Napoleon Bonaparte
Archduke Otto
Warlord
Hi Shqype;
Here's the flags. They are attached. I hope you can open them. The one for the Holy Roman Empire is the Habsburg Emperor's Standard. I think it fits in well.
Now a question: what sort of citylist do you need? Do you need a list with possible names for cities beyond the borders of what the states controled in 1350, say, in case they found new ones, or do you need a list of the cities that they actually controlled in 1350 and are worth having in your scenario?
I guess its the second one...
I'll send it in a few hours I guess.
Cheers,
Archduke Otto
Byzantine Flag Flag of the Habsburg Emperors
Here's the flags. They are attached. I hope you can open them. The one for the Holy Roman Empire is the Habsburg Emperor's Standard. I think it fits in well.
Now a question: what sort of citylist do you need? Do you need a list with possible names for cities beyond the borders of what the states controled in 1350, say, in case they found new ones, or do you need a list of the cities that they actually controlled in 1350 and are worth having in your scenario?
I guess its the second one...
I'll send it in a few hours I guess.
Cheers,
Archduke Otto
Byzantine Flag Flag of the Habsburg Emperors
Attachments
Shqype
Shqyptar
Yes, the second is better for the city list. But to be honest, now I am questioning the use of the HRE in this mod. The House of Austria was a bigger player and the Battle of Vienna was very significant in repelling Ottoman invasion. I still haven't quite figured out a use for the HRE, and to my understanding they were both under the Hapsburgs at some point, so perhaps combining them would make more sense.
Thanks for the images
Thanks for the images
Archduke Otto
Warlord
Hi Shqype,
Sorry for the delay, I'm having some serious problems with logging in.
Now that I've got the list prepared, another question comes to my mind: in order not to provide you with a loudicrously long list of cities from which you have to choose, maybe I should filter it. Since I don't know the map or the size of it, how many cities would fit in in a territory of the size of, say, modern-day Albania without it being crammed?
And about the HRE: actually you're right to make Austria and the HRE one country. Maybe some areas barely developed (mainly the noth east of HRE), and some areas with little control for the centre (could be done by giving it a different religion, just like in the EE* Europe 1380 scenario). It shouldn't be too strong at the beginning.
Cheers,
Otto
Sorry for the delay, I'm having some serious problems with logging in.
Now that I've got the list prepared, another question comes to my mind: in order not to provide you with a loudicrously long list of cities from which you have to choose, maybe I should filter it. Since I don't know the map or the size of it, how many cities would fit in in a territory of the size of, say, modern-day Albania without it being crammed?And about the HRE: actually you're right to make Austria and the HRE one country. Maybe some areas barely developed (mainly the noth east of HRE), and some areas with little control for the centre (could be done by giving it a different religion, just like in the EE* Europe 1380 scenario). It shouldn't be too strong at the beginning.
Cheers,
Otto
Shqype
Shqyptar
Archduke Otto said:Hi Shqype,
Sorry for the delay, I'm having some serious problems with logging in.
And about the HRE: actually you're right to make Austria and the HRE one country. Maybe some areas barely developed (mainly the noth east of HRE), and some areas with little control for the centre (could be done by giving it a different religion, just like in the EE* Europe 1380 scenario). It shouldn't be too strong at the beginning.
Cheers,
Otto
Right. I'll create the map and give you a better idea, but in a region like Albania I plan to make the map large enough so that it can hold maybe 5 cities.
A long list of cities would be useful (not too long!) because for the first phase of this mod I plan on doing the basics: the proper civilizations, religions, technologies, civics, and units.
For the next phase I will create the actual scenario with global events, victory conditions, etc.
The map I'de like to provide for initial release will have preplaced cities, but if a player wants to start a new game from the mod outside of the map, then a city list will be useful.
Jorgen_CAB
Warlord
I thought that you might be interested in some changes made for your mod??
I mentioned the possibility of adding health and happy values for specialists, and I have also tweaked the AI for building cities, which still is a work in progress.
So what do you say, perhaps you have some other ideas that would be good for this mod?
I mentioned the possibility of adding health and happy values for specialists, and I have also tweaked the AI for building cities, which still is a work in progress.
So what do you say, perhaps you have some other ideas that would be good for this mod?
Shqype
Shqyptar
Yes I do, but I'de prefer to speak with you privately and save some surprises for the first release 
Gladi
The ignored thread killer
Bright day
Hmm.
When is it going to start? There were several dynastical changes during time period. And events like 30 years war?
Hmm.
When is it going to start? There were several dynastical changes during time period. And events like 30 years war?
Shqype
Shqyptar
Start time is roughly 1350/1400 ... in that area. The 30 years war doesn't really belong in this scenario since it's a scenario of Eastern Europe, and the 30 years war involved Western Europe (Spain and France, which aren't in here). The House of Austria is the western-most civ.
Right now I'm finishing up creating the factions, making the flags and everything. Once I have the civs done, I'll continue to instate the tech tree and units, then civics.
Once the basic mod is down, and I've provided a map, "phase 1" will be complete. After that's done, I'll continue to make scenarios, the first being a general Eastern European scenario that includes events for and from all factions.
House of Austria:
Venetians:
Right now I'm finishing up creating the factions, making the flags and everything. Once I have the civs done, I'll continue to instate the tech tree and units, then civics.
Once the basic mod is down, and I've provided a map, "phase 1" will be complete. After that's done, I'll continue to make scenarios, the first being a general Eastern European scenario that includes events for and from all factions.
House of Austria:
Venetians:
Spartan117
Immortal
great job on this....hope to play this mod when its done..
This sounds like it is going to be a fun Mod so long as the Map is not too big.
I always like trying to take down Europe with the Ottomans in strategy games (even though I am from a Christian Europe background).
It is too bad the Jannisaries became so corrupt over time. The Sultan should have read his Plato and not allowed them to possesse private property. That would have helped to keep them on track as the best educated warrior class on the planet.
I always like trying to take down Europe with the Ottomans in strategy games (even though I am from a Christian Europe background).
It is too bad the Jannisaries became so corrupt over time. The Sultan should have read his Plato and not allowed them to possesse private property. That would have helped to keep them on track as the best educated warrior class on the planet.
Gladi
The ignored thread killer
Ahem actually every country in Europe saw action in 30-years war. It started in Bohemia and quickly spread to encompass HRE, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Russians, Siebnburgen (in modern day Romania), Wallachia, Ottomans, France, Netherlands, England, Sweden, Denmark, Spain...
Everybody fought and several key battles were fought on the map you include.
So if you start so early, do countries start as they were at the start or in borders they held on average with leaders representing the dynasties which hold on longest? (It seems you choose that option right?)
Everybody fought and several key battles were fought on the map you include.
So if you start so early, do countries start as they were at the start or in borders they held on average with leaders representing the dynasties which hold on longest? (It seems you choose that option right?)
Shqype
Shqyptar
Because there will be many factions against the Ottomans, they will have their fair share of "tricks up their sleeves," such as Janissaries and multiple hero units. Although I have my reasons for disliking them, I myself will love to play as the Ottomans and try to conquer Europe as well, because the way I have it set up, it will be very funMrThing said:
Not everbody ... but it's better if I clarify. The complete 30 years war will not be in this scenario since some of the factions aren't even in this mod. However, it was an important event that did involve many nations, so it will be a global event.. sort of. Bits and pieces will be in as events to stir up trouble for the House of Austria which, by that point of the game, should be a powerhouse from all the land it will control. Thus, internal revolts and religious differences should work well to hinder them in one way or another.
Once I get to that portion of the project, I'de appreciate tips and whatever help you could give to make it historically accurate and fun. I don't remember much about the 30 years war except that in AP Euro when we were taught about it, it was divided into 4 parts, and one of them included "the Defenestration of Prague"
Oh yea, one more thing....
Polska!
