Is there a way of changing the number of religions you can found with limited religions?. As it is, with limited religions there are some religions that are never founded. In my current game neither christianism nor islam are founded. If we could change it from 1 to 2, which, IMO, would make the game even more real (Jerusalem is the holy city for Judaism, Christianism and Islam), but, more importantly, would alllow all of the religions to be founded, making impossible to get all or most religions and holy cities.
RAND 1.76 Balancing and Suggestions
- Thread starter Afforess
- Start date
generalstaff
Steadfast
In real life Islam's holy city would be Mecca (The Hajj comes to mind), not Jerusalem. I know it is confusing since the Islamic Shrine's artwork is the Dome of the Rock, which does not match its name (I do not remember offhand). However, it could be argued in game play that Judaism was founded by one civ, then its holy city is conquered, and by luck the conqueror founds Christianity and you there is a double religion holy city.
Now if there was a mechanic for "lesser Holy Cities," then that would be interesting. I have no idea how such a mechanic would look like, but it would represent your point about Jerusalem better as well as representing cities such as Medina.
Well, Jerusalem is a holy city for Islam, not the Holy city. Same with christianity, whose holy city is Rome, but the don't have just one holy city. In fact, if I'm not wrong, christianity has several holy cities, two of them in my own country, and one of them I lived for two years (Caravaca de la Cruz, Spain)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_city
Asterix Rage
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,585
This topic is to speak about balancing RAND ( I believe). Not for comments about where holy cities were in real life. That is a very long debate
In Civilization, Bibracte can be the holy city for Hinduism and where the Statue of Liberty is built. It's a game
Afforess
The White Wizard
Going on the great wall tangent here, I know that a mod of Rhye's mod made the Great Wall a WYSISYG wall. Basically, the wall prevented barbs from entering the physically walled off areas, but if you settled new cities or expanded your borders, those areas would not be protected. Would that be a positive change?
In other news, I'm testing a new military production city AI. The AI should choose more centralized cities to use for producing units. Still early testing though.
In other news, I'm testing a new military production city AI. The AI should choose more centralized cities to use for producing units. Still early testing though.
Then it's back to my original proposition: Increase the number of religions you can found to 2 with limited religions to allow all of the religions to be founded.
It's pretty straightforward.
And I like the idea of the Great Wall. It will be cool and realistic. That way you also have to take into account where are you going to expand, and leave some room in the middle for future cities that will be protected too.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Kinda defeats the point of Limited Religions, doesn't it?
Well, they are still limited, but limited to two, not to one. As I said before, playing in a Huge game with 16 civs, it is 1600 AD and neither Christianism nor Islam have been founded, and not because the techs, every civ has already the techs to get them. I don't like that, but I don't like one civ having most holy cities built.
If it stands like it is, I won't play with limited religions again, as some of the religions, the latest and by history, the most important in the world today, are left out.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Ultimatum's like that won't work, especially since I hate hate hate limited religions in the first place.
At any rate though, Revolutions penalizing having multiple holy cities a lot. Why not use that?
Ultimatum's like that won't work, especially since I hate hate hate limited religions in the first place.
At any rate though, Revolutions penalizing having multiple holy cities a lot. Why not use that?
Sorry that you take it that way. It wasn't an ultimatum, it's just a personal preference. I'm still halfway through my first AND game (Marathon speed) and I love it. I just said the things I think can be improved. I'm playing with revolutions, but with limited religions I don't get the penalty. I'll see how that works in the next game.
Hi Afforess,
My main thougths are:
1: I think Praetorian should be 10 instead 8(and cost a lot more too) so that he dont lose the advantage he had in Vanilla, being the same has a maceman.I mean, Praetorians did ruled the europe
2: Unique unit for romans that replaces warlord chief like Legion.Cuz its realy ugly to see a roman general with those crappy outfits >.<
3:Ahoy Shiver me timbers! Where are the pirates? I think it would be cool to have when someone discovers mercantilism a very powerfull minor nation spawns, the pirates.Só the buccanner make the other nations walk on the plank, and send them straigth to Davy Jones's locker.If think it would do a nice chalenge for reinassce era, and principaly for who plays on Terra maps, and besides ads a lot of colour to the game.
4: Spg's (self propeled guns) Like Sturmgeschütz (Stug 3),Hetzer or like the SU and ISU Soviet Series made a huge impact on the battlefield during world war 2.My Sugestion is SPG/ Strg 40 /+ 60% anti tracked/ + 30% Anti Whelled.(altougth a unique unit for russiam empire ISU-152(Huge Cost) strg 60 with same bonus)
5: Transport units, like Cart>Charriot>Wagon>Truck>Modern Truck
------------------------------------------->Early Apc(like Sd.Kfz. 251 or M3 Half-track) > Apc
I guess the bigest problem is the AI, but code something like sea transport?
6:Flak 88 is a special unit of axis, the general name is Heavy AA gun, and few changes, heres my idea/ Heavy AA gun Streng 35/ -50% vs gunpowder/ -50 Vs siege/ +30% vs tracked. Because those babies well defended could unleash a lot of pain to enemy armor brigades.
My main thougths are:
1: I think Praetorian should be 10 instead 8(and cost a lot more too) so that he dont lose the advantage he had in Vanilla, being the same has a maceman.I mean, Praetorians did ruled the europe
2: Unique unit for romans that replaces warlord chief like Legion.Cuz its realy ugly to see a roman general with those crappy outfits >.<
3:Ahoy Shiver me timbers! Where are the pirates? I think it would be cool to have when someone discovers mercantilism a very powerfull minor nation spawns, the pirates.Só the buccanner make the other nations walk on the plank, and send them straigth to Davy Jones's locker.If think it would do a nice chalenge for reinassce era, and principaly for who plays on Terra maps, and besides ads a lot of colour to the game.
4: Spg's (self propeled guns) Like Sturmgeschütz (Stug 3),Hetzer or like the SU and ISU Soviet Series made a huge impact on the battlefield during world war 2.My Sugestion is SPG/ Strg 40 /+ 60% anti tracked/ + 30% Anti Whelled.(altougth a unique unit for russiam empire ISU-152(Huge Cost) strg 60 with same bonus)
5: Transport units, like Cart>Charriot>Wagon>Truck>Modern Truck
------------------------------------------->Early Apc(like Sd.Kfz. 251 or M3 Half-track) > Apc
I guess the bigest problem is the AI, but code something like sea transport?
6:Flak 88 is a special unit of axis, the general name is Heavy AA gun, and few changes, heres my idea/ Heavy AA gun Streng 35/ -50% vs gunpowder/ -50 Vs siege/ +30% vs tracked. Because those babies well defended could unleash a lot of pain to enemy armor brigades.
I agree with this.
Afforess
The White Wizard
1.) IDK. 10 Str would mean it wouldn't be worth upgrading them, since Swordsman also have 10 str. Instead, what if they received Formation I and Cover I?
2.) Warlord Chiefs aren't in AND anymore. Good riddance.
3.) Pirate Ships with troops will spawn in AND 1.75 in coastal maps.
4.) I don't think there is artwork available for it.
5.) Transport units have been looked at before, and work, but the AI doesn't know how to use them, and it would be very major to add them into the game.
6.) Flak 88 got replaced in AND 1.75 as well.
Found Stug 3
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182388&highlight=stug
And ISU 152
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187102&highlight=ISU-152
Altougth i was wondering if there is not enougth ww2 units already, maybe they are just more of the same...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182388&highlight=stug
And ISU 152
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187102&highlight=ISU-152
Altougth i was wondering if there is not enougth ww2 units already, maybe they are just more of the same...
Speaking about praetorians - Rome already has Gladiators UU who start with Berzerker I, making them very strong. In my current game i made captured Rome my main military city, produced like 50-60 gladiators there, who got later upgraded to Macemen and Musketeers - with 3 GG attached to stack and moderate amount of cannon support they rip apart any stack of 1.5-2 their size.
p.s. 10 Str for Praetorian would be WAY too much for according era and tech (Iron working).
p.s. 10 Str for Praetorian would be WAY too much for according era and tech (Iron working).
Another thought on AI behavior:
In my last games (i play on deity - giant or gigantic map), i have weak army till reneissance where i beeline for musketman and use an edge over outdated armies of AIs. Main reason i stay alive till that point is that i make AIs attack each other to keep main possible threats busy. That happens because if AI has a war already it usually won't go into another one.
Also, let's take another situation: I declare war on neighbour AI 2x times stronger than me, quickly take 2-3 of border cities then make peace just in time, cause my troops are wounded and he moving back his main army.
So, my proposals would be :
1) declaration of war - AI should weigh his priorities and if he aimed at weak neighbour to expand he shouln't reconsider and start war on opponent years away and send his army there.
2) making peace - AI should consider possibility of taking back cities he lost before making peace for 100 gold, considering amount and strength of troops he sees and he has (basically AI needs more overall analysis strategies - not only total power value but what kind of troops enemy has, how far are they etc.).
In my last games (i play on deity - giant or gigantic map), i have weak army till reneissance where i beeline for musketman and use an edge over outdated armies of AIs. Main reason i stay alive till that point is that i make AIs attack each other to keep main possible threats busy. That happens because if AI has a war already it usually won't go into another one.
Also, let's take another situation: I declare war on neighbour AI 2x times stronger than me, quickly take 2-3 of border cities then make peace just in time, cause my troops are wounded and he moving back his main army.
So, my proposals would be :
1) declaration of war - AI should weigh his priorities and if he aimed at weak neighbour to expand he shouln't reconsider and start war on opponent years away and send his army there.
2) making peace - AI should consider possibility of taking back cities he lost before making peace for 100 gold, considering amount and strength of troops he sees and he has (basically AI needs more overall analysis strategies - not only total power value but what kind of troops enemy has, how far are they etc.).
Tomcat1962
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
- Messages
- 30
Seems that you're playing with another modmod beside of (R)AND since in RAND the only UU for Rome are the Praetorians, or do i miss something?
Imho it's a bit confusing to refer to the experiences of games with another modmod used in a balancing discussion of pure RAND.
Ahh, my bad, i play with only ROME modmod, but i had no idea it adds UU, thought its only add minor extra units like line infantry and graphics. Nonetheless, 10 str unit for Iron working is overkill - leave it with 8 str and give one promotion - combat 1, shock 1 or formation 1.
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