Rank the Aggressive Leaders
- Thread starter Artichoker
- Start date
LordKestrel
King
Silly Dave, Huayna is no longer Agg. But I know what you mean about that Quecha 
Bleys
Deity
Ragnar, since he can usually afford to keep those cities.
Al, since his early UU, plus faster GPeople make him so strong. PHI is a strong trait mixed with anything (as is FIN, I suppose)
Monty, because his UB has outstanding synergy with a whipped warmonger army, and he can jump in and out of "war civics" with ease. Monty may actually be first, now that I think about it.
Al, since his early UU, plus faster GPeople make him so strong. PHI is a strong trait mixed with anything (as is FIN, I suppose)
Monty, because his UB has outstanding synergy with a whipped warmonger army, and he can jump in and out of "war civics" with ease. Monty may actually be first, now that I think about it.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
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- 1,711
Shaka is currently in the lead...
I suppose it's because of the UB. I also cast one of my votes for Shaka.
But to be fair to Montezuma, who is only in the middle of the pack now, several forumers in this thread have listed him as one of the top.
I suppose it's because of the UB. I also cast one of my votes for Shaka.
But to be fair to Montezuma, who is only in the middle of the pack now, several forumers in this thread have listed him as one of the top.
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
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What's the appeal of shaka? Expansive isn't a very good trait. The UU is decent, but not really anything special. The UB is the only really good thing about him.
Are people voting for him because of how his AI can dominate?
Are people voting for him because of how his AI can dominate?
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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I picked the 3 I like best for myself:
Ragnar, Montezuma, Shaka
Ragnar is great because of his other trait allowing for some good economy to make use of the early rush/new land taken in all eras.
Montezuma, with his magic courthouse, is sick whipping. Nothing in the early game can match 1/2 happy penalty whipping...it's very nice as long as you have food.
Shaka - If you're warring, you're building barracks. Barracks that are cheaper than non-aggressive barracks. Barracks that cut maintenance, which is pretty damned convenient, because you'll be expanding nicely with Impi.
Ragnar, Montezuma, Shaka
Ragnar is great because of his other trait allowing for some good economy to make use of the early rush/new land taken in all eras.
Montezuma, with his magic courthouse, is sick whipping. Nothing in the early game can match 1/2 happy penalty whipping...it's very nice as long as you have food.
Shaka - If you're warring, you're building barracks. Barracks that are cheaper than non-aggressive barracks. Barracks that cut maintenance, which is pretty damned convenient, because you'll be expanding nicely with Impi.
futurehermit
Deity
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Shaka because of his rush potential and economic bonus in his UB. Expansive is also a good support trait
Kublai because he has an excellent rush and creative is a very helpful warmongering trait.
Ragnar because it is always nice to have an economy as well.
Kublai because he has an excellent rush and creative is a very helpful warmongering trait.
Ragnar because it is always nice to have an economy as well.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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I routinely say that expansive is underrated. Workers are an important part of REX, almost equal or maybe even equal with settlers from IMP. What good are settlers without improving tiles? Granaries allow even better synergy with REX, since you can put them up for half cost. Granaries go in every city, usually sooner rather than later, so fast granary = faster infrastructure in the city. These things alone make expansive quite solid in the early game, and that's one of the most important times in Civ 4. You're always going to use workers/granaries, so that is pretty versatile.
There's another bonus too though. In the mid game, while running HR, the happy cap is usually nullified. The main detriment to growth then becomes health, and + 2 often means an extra tile worked in every developed city. This is a cottage, mine, whatever. Can this match something like financial during the time period? Likely not, but it's not as far back as just looking at it face value implies. The early game may leave expansive in a stronger position than financial depending on map, and no matter what expansive is guaranteed to be useful.
The main appeal however is the UB. Cheap maintenance reductions are nice, but more importantly you're likely to use them anyway, meaning their opportunity cost is extremely low. Again, this is a major early game boost.
The UU is situational. It absolutely owns when the AI doesn't have metal or does not have it hooked up. Otherwise, it's a bit lackluster (though you can certainly reach deep to pillage metal if you know where the AI has it). Impi can annoy the AI pretty nicely though via pillaging, opening the door for later conquest.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
I think the appeal of Shaka is his strong early development. You'll be whipping granaries and barracks right after monuments in all cities and you get a discount on workers as well, hopefully starting with the first one with settling a plains hill/working forest plains hill. I think many people overvalue impis however they are good for pillaging strategic resources and/or cutting of roads asap while your main axeman sod advances.
slobberinbear
Ursine Skald
I went with Shaka, Boudica, and Monty. They are all strong in the early game for various reasons.
I am an unapologetic Monty fan. I like the idea that I'm building sacrificial altars and kicking the dead body down the bloody steps of my temples, still clutching the beating heart. That just does it for me. When you can get Monty on a roll, it is simply devastating as he whips out granaries and altars in captured cities and whips up more replacements ...
I am an unapologetic Monty fan. I like the idea that I'm building sacrificial altars and kicking the dead body down the bloody steps of my temples, still clutching the beating heart. That just does it for me. When you can get Monty on a roll, it is simply devastating as he whips out granaries and altars in captured cities and whips up more replacements ...
Toedustman
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
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- 12
I said Ragnar, Alexander and Stalin. The each have a good economic trait to back up all that war. Though I prefer Raggie's Financial and Alex's Philosophical to Stalin's Industrious.
vale
Mathematician
I went Monty, Alex and Ragnar but its a pretty big gap from my favorite (Monty), to next favorite (Alex).
The Sacrificial Altar will always hold a warm place in my heart. That was the building the forced me to learn to use slavery properly. Efficient use of the whip in Sacrificial Altar powered cities is sick. Not to mention (I'm sure people are aware but I'll throw it out there anyway) the bonus is retroactive to any preexisting whip anger. Spiritual is also a favorite.
The Sacrificial Altar will always hold a warm place in my heart. That was the building the forced me to learn to use slavery properly. Efficient use of the whip in Sacrificial Altar powered cities is sick. Not to mention (I'm sure people are aware but I'll throw it out there anyway) the bonus is retroactive to any preexisting whip anger. Spiritual is also a favorite.
1 Shaka
2 Tokugawa
3 Montezuma
Shaka: Expansive is generally excellent at speeding up one's early game by providing a production bonus for the very basics.
The UB provides an early and very welcome maintenance bonus, and its lategame appeal outstrips the entire Organised trait after corporations. The UU isn't a main frontline troop, but definitely has its uses.
Tokugawa. Admittedly the early economy is very lacking, but things get a lot better later on. An excellent upgrade of the main medieval combat unit followed by ultra-promoted gunpowder units leading to a rare production bonus with a hidden health bonus thrown in when you need it most (Japan doesn't need coal in the lategame). Nice.
Montezuma. An Aggressive leader with diminished can openers in the classical age certainly feels a little odd. However, I appreciate having an almost unlimited supply of medic units, worker stealers and general nuisances. Being able to whip out half-decent combat troops from cities not yet connected is also a bonus.
Talking about the whip... the UB is excellent. It enables utterly ridiculous troops production and, being a cheaper courthouse, makes it easier to afford the conquests. Spiritual really fits well into the whole concept: Little in the way of raw power, but options other leaders simply don't have.
This is imo the best leader to show off with... seemingly weak but capable of amazing plays that would be completely, utterly and in all other ways inconceivable with anyone else.
2 Tokugawa
3 Montezuma
Shaka: Expansive is generally excellent at speeding up one's early game by providing a production bonus for the very basics.
The UB provides an early and very welcome maintenance bonus, and its lategame appeal outstrips the entire Organised trait after corporations. The UU isn't a main frontline troop, but definitely has its uses.
Tokugawa. Admittedly the early economy is very lacking, but things get a lot better later on. An excellent upgrade of the main medieval combat unit followed by ultra-promoted gunpowder units leading to a rare production bonus with a hidden health bonus thrown in when you need it most (Japan doesn't need coal in the lategame). Nice.
Montezuma. An Aggressive leader with diminished can openers in the classical age certainly feels a little odd. However, I appreciate having an almost unlimited supply of medic units, worker stealers and general nuisances. Being able to whip out half-decent combat troops from cities not yet connected is also a bonus.
Talking about the whip... the UB is excellent. It enables utterly ridiculous troops production and, being a cheaper courthouse, makes it easier to afford the conquests. Spiritual really fits well into the whole concept: Little in the way of raw power, but options other leaders simply don't have.
This is imo the best leader to show off with... seemingly weak but capable of amazing plays that would be completely, utterly and in all other ways inconceivable with anyone else.
Monty
Alex
Shaka
Edit:
My feelings exactly.
Alex
Shaka
Edit:
vale said:
My feelings exactly.
Same here.
1. monty
2. alex
3. rag
I don't think I have to point out why those.
However I don't see why KK gets so little love. This guy has every building you want early doublespeed. Plus you can skip monuments and get your BFC faster.
2. alex
3. rag
I don't think I have to point out why those.
However I don't see why KK gets so little love. This guy has every building you want early doublespeed. Plus you can skip monuments and get your BFC faster.
vale
Mathematician
I think you mean Shaka. Buildings I really want early in every city are granary and barracks.
Nah I mean the barracks and the library.vale said:
Pre-rush you don't usually build granaries. Post-rush you want to get your science rate back and your GPs going so you build a library.
I often delay granaries when I'm not whipping that hard.
