RAT - 01 - DG Romans

[onedreamer]

Ok so Mayas it is. They got horses with Edrine, so that should be our first target I believe. Let's watch our back from China btw. The war with Mayas will be much longer and dangerous than the others, and chinese could take an advantage from that. How is our military rated vs Maya btw ?

 

[ThERat]

the save

Pre-Turn
establish embassy with China first for 77gp,
they have 2 salpeter, 3 iron and 3 horses, republic, Bejing has 9 citizens of which 3 are clowns massive WW
want to get some deals since there are opportunities to get maybe more than 1 tech
our best partner France gives us MT for silks 72gpt and 276g
MT to America for banking, WM and a slave
WM to Vikings for 21gp
MM to get Viro grow in 1

IT
China and France ally against Ottoman
China and France ally against America
Maya does NOT manage to take Konya
get Military Academy msg
Kyoto finishes Bach
Kagoshima finishes Copernicus

1. 460AD
Iznik and Aydin are Chinese already
attack Konya, take it, get 1 slave. Ottomans are history.
time to build up some military to strike Maya

IT Miami now Chinese, get palace expansion, a few deals expired, i let them be, due to the coming war against Maya
Maya and French units go towards Boston, lets hope Maya takes it

2. 470 AD
shuffle units

IT
China and France ally against Vikings, then China destroys Vikings

3. 480AD
French and Maya march on to Boston

IT Japan demands a lux, I refuse and am lucky again
deal with Maya ends, Chinese units running around as well

4. 490AD
upgrade all knights to Cav's, prepare for war, found Byzantium

IT French finish Magellan

5. 500AD
sick of all the units in my land, demand Maya to leave and they declare, get War happiness and can reduce lux to 0%
ally France for dyes, WM and 7gpt
ally Japan for dyes and gems (sorry, later found this might have been a mistake as trade route might be broken )
ally China + ivory for gems, 25gpt and 26g
capture Edrine and 206g + 3 Trebs, clear some Maya troops

IT what i hoped for comes true, France and China mop up a lot of units for us

6. 510 AD
more fighting but no luck on leaders

IT china now has Antalya, after we settle this war, China MUST be next

7. 520 AD
capture Izmit and 199g

IT Maya burn Byzantium to the ground and net 20g

8. 530AD
we raze Uskudar (no need to worry about flips that way) get 209g
4 slaves + cannon
capture Sinop, 216g, 2 slaves, 1 treb

IT only 3 Maya cavs attack, they have no more horses, so we should be safer.

9. 540AD
march onto Tikal, the salpeter city

IT 2 Cavs attack, Maya build Newton, French build Smiths

10.350AD
I left most units untouched (tried for 2 elite wins, but no leaders, 1 settler is in place to found city at former uskudar site
there is a small stack going for Tikal, needs to be reinforced with new Cav's, we pillaged their salpeter already

afternote
now that France knows economics, we can trade for 2 or 3 fer
we have a lot of money for trading
every Maya city we captured, netted us 200g, because Maya is very rich, we should raze a few more cities, please build more settlers, one ore is on its way to the front already

 

[ThERat]

France, China and Maya in our lands

mini stack going for Tikal, settler under legion in place to settle, army ready to strike as well

overview of the battlezone

 

[rrau]

May I ask why we're researching democracy? I don't think we'll get it before the AI's so won't be able to trade it. Also, if we're going to be warring, we won't be able to use it.

 

[ThERat]

actually it doesn't really matter, what we research, since France is up democracy, economics and physics, we should try and get the latter 2. then change research path to either magnetism or ToG.
as far as i can see, that lone scientist is not really needed at this moment, we always trade the techs and soon could steal them.

 

[onedreamer]

got it. Will play asap.

 

[onedreamer]

Roman Empire, 650 AD


Preturn

Turn 170: 550 AD

Upgrade horse to Cavalry in Edrine, Konya and Lutetia. Warrior to MDI in Hispalis.

Could get Physics from Joan for 900g and 19gpt, total 1280g. We can research it in 10 turns spending 1640g. We are really not scientific people
Spend 90g to investigate Marseille (building Smith's TC). Zero shields will be done in 42 turns.
We can't trade with Toku although we have an active trade ? O_O Stupid Joan & Toku didn't connect themselves with roads, there must be a Mayan ship somewhere.
Joan doesn't want to give up Economy yet. I decide to wait some more to trade, we can always extort from Smoke Jaguar.
Change research to Economy to make it cost less. Hire Scientist in Veii to prevent riots.

IBT: Smoke Jag. kills one of our Cavalry near his city. They had no defense along :/
Neapolis Harbor > Caravel

Turn 171: 560 AD

Mayans make it in the Industrial age. If they get Nationalism soon it's gonna be harder.
Found Brundisium, starts on temple. Upgrade archer and horse in Brundisium.
Move other 2 Cavalry to Tikal, not sure we will make it though.
Send pretty much everything that can attack to the front.
Wandering cavalry kills wandering Musket and promotes to Elite.

IBT: Japan and America MA vs France (stupidest thing ever). Japan at war with France...
Longbowman attacks Cavalry near Lagatero, Cavalry defends uninjured.
Cumae Cavalry > Settler.

Turn 172: 570 AD

Vet Longbow attacks Elite Cavalry and dies.
Elite Legionary finishes it.
Siege of Tikal
Cannons: miss, hit, hit, hit.
Vet Cavalry wins reg. musket.
Vet Cavalry wins reg. musket. Redlines but promotes to Elite.
MDI looses to Pikeman.
Rat redlines but conquers Tikal. 360 gold pillaged.
Tikal is razed and 9 slaves (5 ottomans) are deported from it.
Elite Cav. kills Musket next to the ruins.
Vet Cavalry kills Eighteen Rabbit (Mayan GML) nearby Tikal
Siege of Lagartero
Prima Legio attacks vet. Musket, redlines and retreats. (Musket down 2 hp)
Vet Cavalry attacks reg. Musket, redlines it, but dies.
2 Vet Cavalry finish the Muskets, Lagartero conquered, 215 gold brought home.
I decide to keep Lagartero, we have no settler, and Army needs barracks to rest.
It comes with Duct.

I notice Lutetia was missplaced, it will waste a lot of land.
Next turn our deals with Joan run out, I will trade then.

IBT: Americans are history.
Mayan Vet MDI attacks Vet Cav, which redlines and retreats.
Mayan Vet MDI redlines killing Elite Cav.
Rome Cav > Cav
Chicago Harbor > Granary
WLTKD in Naples.

Turn 173: 580 AD

Vet MDI kills redlined MDI.
We can't give horses to Joan anymore since she has them in Boston.
Gems, WM, 1500g, 22gpt to Joan for Economics.
Economics, WM, 160g, 18gpt to Mao for Physics.
Economics&Physics to Toku for Democracy & WM.
I know we aren't supposed to make per turn deals with China but we won't have a war with them anytime soon,
and this was the cheapest way to get Eco and Physics.
We're now on par in Tech with everyone, except Maya of course.
Massive War Weariness, have to increase lux to 10%. Can now fire a clown in Rome, which starts on Smith's Comp. (38 turns, but can be improved working the mountains).
Change all taxmen to scientists, resarch on Magnetism with them, 149gpt.

IBT: Mayan Vet MDI kills MDI
Washington Cav > MP
France building Shakesp. T.


Turn 174: 590 AD

Elite Cav kills vet Longbow.
Move troops to Calakmul

IBT: Mayans want Peace, nah...
Mayan Vet Longbow kills elite legion
Veii Cav > Settler
Cumae Settler > Granary
Pompeii Musket > Musket

Turn 175: 600 AD

Syracuse founded on Tikal's ruins. Starts on Temple, we now have extra incense.
Kill Musket, Longbow, 2 MDI's around Syracuse, no losses.
Last win brings Maximus, GML ! I am unsure if rushing Military Academy or make a Cav. Army on the spot. I decide for the Army.
Change Viroconium from Cav to Granary.
Siege of Calakmul
Prima legio kills Vet. Musket.
Elite Cav. kills reg Musket.
Vet Cav. kills longbow, Calakmul conquered, 216 gold brought home. I keep this too (it's small). Will starve citizens like in Lagartero.
Workers help Chicago grow.

Tech: everyone up Free Artistry.

IBT: Japan and Maya > peace. Smoke Jag. lands a longbow next to Pisae.
Viro Granary > Temple
Bursa Settler > MP
We finish Heroic Epic. Antium > Granary. (we can sell all these granaries later)
Ravenna Cav > Bank

Turn 176: 610 AD

Cav from Ravenna kills the longbowman and promotes to Elite.

IBT: lotsa chinese troops around. They take losses for us (Smoke attacks only them )
Seattle Musket > Duct
Hispalis MP > Settler

Turn 177: 620 AD

kill Musket, Cav and 3 MDI by Syracuse with no losses.
Elite Cav kills Vet Cav by Calakmul.
Siege to Copan ready for the next turn.
Hurry temple in Lagartero.

IBT: again loads of troops from China. Will be tough to beat them next.
Veii Settler > Bank
Phila Cannon > Court
Lagartero Temple > Court
Naples Caravel > Bank
SF Harbor > MP
France building Newton's (hence they have ToG)
Japan building Shakesp.

Turn 178: 630 AD

Siege of Copan

Must have barracks, all vets there.
Cannons hit, miss, hit, hit. 3 muskets defending.
Septima Legio (Cav. Army) attacks, avoid longbow defense, kills musket uninjured, one cav promotes to Elite.
Septima Legio wins again (6 damage) , another Elite.
Prima Legio wins musket.
Septima Legio kills longbow, Copan conquered and razed (too big to keep), 326 gold and 4 slaves taken.

Incense, WM, TM, 650g, 26gpt to Joan for ToG.
I will send a slave to make a colony on another incense, so we can trade it with Mao if we want.

IBT: China marches deep into Mayan territory and takes losses for us (thanks again Mao).
Pisae Cav > MP
Chinese building Shakesp.

Turn 179: 640 AD

nothing

IBT: workers mine mountain by Rome which gains 5 turns on Smiths' Company. Mine the other mountain too.

Turn 180: 650 AD

Army starts moving toward Chichen Itza before China takes it.

Notes on workers: near Syracuse the slave should get the last incense with a colony IMO.
Around Brundisium the 3 workers should make a road leading to Japan. Only 2 tiles to road and we have a land trade route.
Near the gem colony they should irrigate grassland and then plains for Chicago (which was not growing).

A deal with France finished, we are making 202gpt and we can trade Silks with her. As soon as they have Magnetism we should get it and pass to the Industrial Age. Overall it's going well. We're almost in the Industrial Age in the year 650, lol. China is getting dangerous btw. We might get more WW soon I'm afraid.

 

[ThERat]

looking really good

We should not stop the war before Maya is history, we need to keep Chichen Itza and Palenque anyway due to the wonders there. they are culturally the power, so it would be good to get them away to reduce flips. btw i think we have to be careful with units in those 2 conquered Maya cities. flip risk is still high, better park the units next to them and then recapture in case of flips.
I actually think once Maya is gone, we could start to self research and build up some libraries.
It will also soon be cheaper to steal techs, esp nationalism is extremely expensive. Once we aquire Magnetism, what do we research first? I would go for steam, we want to rail our empire to make troop movement much easier.
the next target has to be china.

Roster
ThERat
onedreamer - just played
dl123654 - up
rrau - on deck
shevek

 

[dl123654]

Got it, will play now.

 

[dl123654]

The Mayan Culture War

Turn 0 650AD:
Switch many scientists to tax

IBT:
Japan lands samurai near Lugdunum

Turn 1 660AD:
Antium Granary->Musket
Pompeii Musket->Cavalry
Trade with China WM for WM and 47gold
Trade with France WM for WM and 12gold
China is blocking our settler
Switched Washington Market->Cavalry, rushed for 68gold

IBT:
Samurai goes towards Boston
Maya china sign peace
We lose Ivory

Turn 2 670AD:
Washington Cavalry->Market
Viroconium Temple->Musket
Cumae Granary->Musket
Pisae riots
Hispalis Settler->Granary
France gets Magnetism
Trade France Magnetism for Silks,WM,1010gold and 14gpt
Set min research on Nationalism
Trade China Ivory,Furs,WM and 120gold for Magnetism and Gems
Found Caesaraugusta
China doesn't have anything else of value, don't build the Incense colony

Turn 3 680AD:
Lugdunum Court->Market
Konya Temple->Court
Maya have Rifles
French finish Smith
Rome Smith->Newton (Can switch to MA or pentagon if need be)
Get leader before the seige of Chichen Itza, build army
Put Dragon and DL2 in Army
Start seige of Chichen Itza:
Cannons Miss,Hit,Hit,Hit
Army Wins, loses half life.
Decide to stop siege and wait for all armies.

IBT:
China France Declare on Japan
All Chinese units that traveled back home are now crossing our territory again

Turn 4 690AD:
Antium Musket->Bank
Rush Temple in Caesaraugusta for 188gold

IBT:
France and Japan declare peace
France wants to renew deal against Mayans for same cost, decline
Trade France Dyes for WM and 240gold

Turn 5 700AD:
Lutetia Temple->Court
Caesaraugusta Temple->Wall
Buffalo Harbor->Temple
Start second siege of Chichen Itza:
Cannons 3 hits
Lose 1 Elite Cavalry, take Chichen Itza, 2 slaves, 795 gold, Sistine Chapel, Leonardo [dance]
Everyone is resisting
Capture settler
While we have Leonardo upgrades all spear to Muskets for 900
France has Nationalism, will trade for everything we have
Everyone rests inside Chichen Itza

Turn 6 710AD:
France and Maya declare peace

Turn 7 720AD:
zzz

Turn 8 730AD:
Viroconium Musket->Cavalry
Cumae Musket->Cavalry
Decide to have France and China back to attack Mayan troops, costs 30gpt total (15 for each)

IBT:
China kills big stack of bows near our Syracuse
Calakmul deposes

Turn 9 740AD:
Pompeii cavalry->same
All resistence in Chichen Itza stops
Cavalry Armies run to Lazapa, kill one unit and return to Chichen Itza

Turn 10 750AD:
Ravenna Bank->Cavalry
Get 75gold from Japan for our WM
buy temple in Chichen Itza for 232 gold

Notes:
We have lots of money
Still own Chichen Itza, afraid to move anyone out of there, Mayan culture almost surronds us
Might be able to take Lazapa next turn with help of 2 Cavalry armies
China doesn't have Nationalism, France and Maya do
Doing min research on Nationalism, hope to research on own, trade for Steam when we can
Cavalry going to Maya should stop at Calakmul first to take it before China does
Newton 5 turns away, can switch for MA or Pentgon

 

[Triple_C]

Do any of you know the seed?

 

[ThERat]

a few things I noticed looking at the save:

do be careful leaving units in ex-Maya cities, we might lose them all in one big blow, park them next to them. I strongly discourage leaving all armies in Chichen Itza

a tactic I always use when fighting strong cities, I cover my fighter armies with another one, so that redlined armies are still safe.

I can see China conquered a few Japanese cities, that's excellent. later we can get France to ally against China and we might get those cities as well.

if we increase research to break even (plus scientists iso taxman, we can research nationalism in 13 turns (but it would equal 3000+g). usually the AI prefers to research the top path, we should go for all the bottom techs including steam then go for ToE. as i mentioned before, do we want libraries? they would give us culture as well.


and for Triple_C

 

[rrau]

Preflight (750ad)

wake most units in Chichen Itza and send to take Lazapa next turn
Rush a lot of markets and a couple banks in our core as we are at war and currently only have 4 towns building military units
Increase research rate and hire some scientists

turn 1 (760ad)

Near Lazapa:
3/5 cannons hit
Prima Legio kills conscript rifle
5/5 cav vs 3/4 rifle => 2/5 cav, no leader
5/5 cav vs 2/4 rifle => captured and razed city (settler nearby) and liberated 700g

very few troops to move towards the front
Rush a Musket in Caesaraugusta to escort one of the 2 settlers sitting there
Short rush 4 or 5 cavs - still have 2 turns before they are ready

turn 2 (770ad)

Settle Palmyra
While waiting for cannons to arrive at palenque, start pillaging around the city to starve it and cut it off from building more good units

turn 3 (780ad)

settle Jerusalem
5/5 cav vs 2/4 rifle => 5/5 cav and Great leader [dance] => cav army

turn 4 (790ad)

One turn left on Newtons - we're going to get it
Moving troops towards Palenque

ibt:

trade WM with China and pay 13g for the privledge (sp?)
Build Newton's in Rome then start a library

turn 5 (800ad)

troops and cannon in position to attack Palenque next turn

turn 6 (810ad)

Captured Palenque with Hanging Gardens and liberated 925g
ibt: we get a wing for our palace

turn 7 (820ad)

move troops

turn 8 (830ad)

Captured Bonampak with 841g

ibt: Palenque flipped, lost 1 healing cav and one cannon

turn 9 (840ad)

recaptured Palenque and 608g
Settled Caesarea
turn sci slider down, still get Nationalism in 1

ibt: learned nationalism, start steam power

turn 10 (850ad)

After recapturing Palenque the previous turn, I felt like I was pushing the envelope, but I go ahead and attempt to capture Yaxchilan. I was successful and liberated 1836g. The Maya are gone. (It was either us or the stack of 12 French Longbows). Luckily all my troops but one killed their target or we would have been in a world of hurt (2 of the units were cav armies and one is hurt pretty bad).


Notes:

Our military is weak vs China

Possible plan: build military for a while, build fortresses and fortify them near the neck so china can't reinforce her distant cities, and sign MMP with France the turn before RoP raping the Chinese (getting all their useful resources at once). Hopefully we have enough cavs to get all their distant cities in one turn.
However, at Demi-God, whenever I try anything like that, I usually get a DoW issued before I'm ready and get steam-rolled, so I would like to see if anyone else has better ideas.

After destroying the Maya, we have a load of money. I would consider short-rushing some units to help build our military

Also, when I tried to upload the sav file (with my antivirus and firewalls turned off) I can't "see" the file to download it or even "see" the link. I think it has something to do with my Norton antivirus, but have never been able to figure out how to stop it. It only happens with the sav files and not with the pictures. Once it happens once, all the subsequent files for the same game do the same thing, too. Therefore I'm going to attach the sav and ask that everyone also do the same so I can continue to play. Thanks.

 

[ThERat]

excellent job, rrau

ok, the strategy?
1. upgrade all muskets to rifles and then start to reinforce all 4 cities near the bottleneck. also build more cannons, if China loses many units at the front, we will be able to beat them.

2. build up army, China still fights Japan. Once they got those 2 cities on the continent left (or sign peace), we better be careful and fast, we need France as an ally against China to finish all those troops within our part of the pangaea. Cav's are still powerful fighting rifles, but not infantry.

3. we will lose 2 luxes from China, but there is wine for us to grab. As rrau said, get those 5 cities and then march to the bottleneck.

4. we should build pentagon, 4 units in an army are so much better, I feel we should have one or two cities building wonders and pre-builds, we can build ToE soon as well.

what do the others think?

I personally feel, this Team of 5 is great everyone plays promtly and in my mind to the best we can, it really is fun.

 

[Shevek]

I have just had a quick look and I am up again?. Guys, you are like lightning.
I am very busy today and possibly tomorrow as well. Not sure if I manage to play before Tuesday night. (I am working in retail and pre Xmas gets very hectic and long working hours, including week-end sometimes. ) If you cannot wait then switch me with the next player.
Have to dash now.

 

[ThERat]

Shevek, are you ok if you are swapped until you are ready?
What does the rest of the Team think, if we need to wait until Tuesday?
I personally am ok, if you play Tuesday night only. But must let us know, if you can't, then I would play my turns instead.

 

[dl123654]

For me finals started yesterday and end Wednesday, so a slow down of this game would be ok with me.

 

[onedreamer]

I don't get how France got to finish Smith's Trading so quickly when it was clearly much longer when I spied.
It's a big bummer, I started making MP and banks on purpous hoping in Smith, that would have been a win for our economy and ability to steal/run espionage missions all around. Newton's won't be nearly as useful with our current tactic, sadly.

I am currently in Switzerland for 1 week for work. So I have very limited time to check and play, hence a slow down is more than welcome too

 

[Shevek]

Sorry guys, I have to ask for a skip.
My collegue called in sick likely for the rest of the week and I am up to my eyeballs in work.
My apologies. I will check in again at the earliest opportunity, looks like Friday night or Saturday.

Have fun bashing the Chinese.

 

[dl123654]

I don't get how France got to finish Smith's Trading so quickly when it was clearly much longer when I spied.
It's a big bummer, I started making MP and banks on purpous hoping in Smith, that would have been a win for our economy and ability to steal/run espionage missions all around. Newton's won't be nearly as useful with our current tactic, sadly.

Just had a look at 2 saves, the 650AD (was the save was passed to me) and my autosave from 710AD (closest to when France finished the wonder in 680AD):

in 650AD Marseilles:
Smith completed in 33turns, 10spt
population 9 going to riot next turn
almost surrounded by jungle

in 710AD Marseilles:
Smith Completed, 6spt, building bowman with 9sheilds completed
population 10
same amount of productive tiles

Decide to save 710AD in another folder and push enter on the 650AD save
In 660AD, Marseilles is the same with 32 turns left. France just learned Magnetism this turn.

Could it have been a Scientific Great Leader? I once saw a SGL rush a wonder, but that wonder was in their capital and I figured the ai just rushes whats in their capital. Did a check of the 650AD save again and saw that the Mayans were the only ones who knew Magnetism, therefore France could not have got one from that tech.

Are SGL even on? If they are not it could have come from a regular leader. Any other ideas?