Rat 40 - Introduction to CCM

[barbslinger]

Finishing tonight - I had to go out of town on business and could not play last night. I'll play while Celtic are winning.

 

[Northern Pike]

That's the result I'd like to see too, but historically, it's about a 19% chance.

 

[barbslinger]

Rat40

1714AD

Have a look around:
Lower tax to 50% to still get in 3 turns.
Look at Sagres and want to move the stack towards Lagos.
Decide to go for a steal. Wanted to steal from Germany but no embassy then think France. If they declare perhaps they will back off the tech pace. WE SUCCEED and take Enlightenment. This has the Constitution small wonder @ 400s so Saigon gets it in 12. 1 smiley per city and we could use it. I just read the post about not rushing to Enlight but it is the only tech that is available next. Democracy and Steam are all that is left after Imperialism and in that order.
Move 12 Hussars , 2 EK’s and a musket on Lagos.
There are 12 cav coming south to hopefully meet at Lisbon and break Henrys back.
Wow that took a while but got Imperialism in 2 coming now.
18692g at +808gpt. 70% sci, 0% happiness.

IT

Lagos stack got the must bombed down to 2/4 so no cover left. Saw a phant running S N of old Korea. I think it was German. Defend to a archer. 1-0
5 cav, Harbor in Washington, Clock, Lib, Academy and Rax built.

1)1716
Investigate phant and it is German.
Move towards Lagos.
Ready for Evora next turn.
Rotate out Muskets towards front.
Clear some fog.
Beat the spear running away near Evora.
Make a couple of small trades. I don’t like them falling behind their neighbors too much.
Double check happy and Imperialism in 1. Short rush where applicable.

IT

Get 2 hitpoints of damage on Lagos stack. Lose a cav to LB, retreat, LB kill. 2-1
7 cavs and assorted others are built.

2) 1718

Assault on Evora
Cavs beats Muskets twice. We take Evora. 4-1
Lose and then win against a rogue Musket wandering across the Evora plains. 5-2
Assault on Lagos
Retreat a Hussar to Musket taking 2 hp.
Kill a musket.
Kill a musket.
Use an EK to take out 2 hp musket. Take Lago but no gold.
Shoot, just realized no Imperialism and I was 2 scientists over what was required.
Take down the 2 LB’s 10-2
Pick off a wandering musket cleanly in the Southern tundra. 11-2 Mis-click a Hussar going to Lagos that a Lisbon unit will be able to pick off.

IT

Lose spices and get to renegotiate with Vikings for Silks/wines/360g
No attacks from Portugal but a LB comes out to stop short to the stray Hussar.
Imperialism > Democracy in 4 @ 60% with scientists
5 cavs and a market are built

3) 1720

Move ships
Culture bomb Lagos.
A Schneider does not take down a musket on a hill. A hussar takes it out but no MGL. 12-3
Begin creeping through the hills to now out of the fog Oporto sitting between Lagos and Evora.
A combined taskforce of 8 cav, 9 hussar and an Ek are prepped to take it anf then hopefully get a monkk to expand it. Have another side expedition to Luanda that was recently founded S of Evora. Henry has 9 total cities left.
France will give 17800g for Imperialism. There are no wonders here only an Artillery School. I take the money. We have 38900g. He still has 74000g. Set Lagos, Sagres and Leira to build Ship-of-the-line to knock down the pesky Port bombing. Usaka swaps to Arty School, it can only be built in city withvMil Academy. It wastes 10shield but quicker arty with 14 attack.

IT

2 attacks. 1 retreat and a injured Hussar in Lagos. That knight went around the whole group to sacrifice himself. 12-4

4) 1722

We take Oporto 3 wins and 2 retreats. 15-4
The sacrifice goes down to a E EK, no MGL.. 16-4
We knock out 1 Port Silk colony.
At Luanda a cav beats a musket clean and then next LOSES to spear with no damage to the spear. 17-5

IT

No attacks!

5) 1724

Our illustrious Ship-o-the-line go 3-0 to rid us of the pest bombarding. 19-4
Luanda is destroyed by a Hussar 20-4
Line up troops for Lisbon and heading another group N of Oporto. There has to be another city up there too.
Road between Lahore and Evora done next turn. That will cause a flood of Cav on Henry. Sarting to send NE created troops towards our core for pincer move on Canada.
Go through towns one time.

IT

No attacks again. Lisbon sends out a ship tandem, probably with a settler. I have a ship-o line after them.

6) 1726
Democracy in 1 @ 50%
We take Lisbon losing 2 cav, treating 1, killing 4, the last with a yogi to take the city. No monk 24-6
There is a city N. Emerita.
Have a few galleons and Ship 0’ line being produced in ex-port coastal towns to go after the far S Port towns that are behind mountains by land. There is a road but it would take getting a 3 tile road “to” the road to get over the mountains.

IT
Nothing really. The last port ship bombing up near our core is capsized.
Democracy in, Steam in 5.

7) 1728

Load galleons for S town run.
Take Emerita and this gives us a nice run to last 2 N port cities.
Round out the balance of embassies. Nothing of real note. China, 1 city, is building spears. Babylon looked pretty nice.

IT

No attacks. See 1 worker making a run for it. Germany might be up to something in N Korea. Ships running about. They may want to settle the empty desert still there. OIL?

8) 1730

I have been building a couple ships in N Korea to load to go after Germany settlement across the bay when the time is right.
I went with a ton of scientists to try and get Steam in 4 but no go. I went to flip them back and blew it off. It is a lot of time. Can we just get the discount near the end?
We need a decion on the Capitol. Supposedly another Palace? Dehli looks good? I start it and next player can swap to Opera with no waste if desired.

IT
Deal Free Art to Poland for furs
We get E India Co in Hanoi
No movement att all from Port.

9) 1732

Finally get units through the hills onto the porch of Guimaries. Attacking next turn. Land a force on southern towns in the tundra.
Slider can go to 60%. Steam in 3. And on to the next era!
Rush a few half built science bldgs

IT

Nothing really. Lot of builds come in.

10) 1734

Take Rio with no loss 3-0 , 27-6
Take Guimaries. 29-6



There are ships docked on E coast in Rangoon for sneaking around Canadas N cities. Tokyo has a tandem group for landing on Germany town in far west Spain if need be. There are a group of cavs heading to far South Canada town in tundra. Coimbra and Sao Paulo should go next turn and Faro 1-2 turns after and that ends Portugal. Setting up with a lot of cavs around Rangoon, 11 for Canada and there are 62 horse types in the south or heading there.
Montreal is easier reached from the S. but it will be a mountain slog either way.

 

[vmxa]

Maybe I am nuts, but to me I would not be trading techs to France, regardless of how much they paid. Let them sit on all that money. It only helps them if someone sell them techs.

I also do not see much value in trading techs for lux. It is not like we need them. The way we bury them is to to keep them down in the tech race and out produce them.

I would only trade techs to far behind nations. I would not trade anything to any top dog nation. Let them do it on their own.

Edit: I said in the 1704 turn my position would be no trades with France.

 

[barbslinger]

I don't think your nuts for not wanting to trade to France. I justified to myself because we are the stronger researcher. Once we get our free tech in the next age (2 turns away) and get a stranglehold on our continent we will be leaving the rest of the world in our wake research wise. $17,800 was full price and can rush a lot of units / buildings. Trading to other countries that are backwards will keep them from looking like an easy target on their continent.
It is my philosophy, but if we want to make a team rule I'm more than willing to abide by it. We won't be able to trade after the 1st tier + the 2 gov't techs in the next age anyway so it will be a moot point very soon.

I also have a few ship builds going for preparation of overseas mass landing. We will need a lot more. I think the largest transport is about 5 in a tech or 2. We will have about 100 cavs and 20 muskets to ferry so about 24 transports, 12 cover ships and defense at home will be needed.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good work against Portugal, and we seem to be well set up to attack Canada.

With Rat still away, I've got it. I'll rush extensively to get the maximum benefit from our mountain of gold.

 

[vmxa]

I don't think your nuts for not wanting to trade to France. I justified to myself because we are the stronger researcher. Once we get our free tech in the next age (2 turns away) and get a stranglehold on our continent we will be leaving the rest of the world in our wake research wise. $17,800 was full price and can rush a lot of units / buildings. Trading to other countries that are backwards will keep them from looking like an easy target on their continent.
It is my philosophy, but if we want to make a team rule I'm more than willing to abide by it. We won't be able to trade after the 1st tier + the 2 gov't techs in the next age anyway so it will be a moot point very soon.

I see no problem with trading to backward nations, as long as they are far back. No problem with trades for lux as long as it is a decent deal (lux for each and we toss in some gpt).

As to the full price, I don't care. I would not trade it to them for any price in gold. We had about 17k already and +1k gpt. That should be plenty.

Especially for me as I am not seeing all that many rushes being required. I just do not want to do anything to help strong nations learn techs, if I can avoid it. In any event you are free to ignore me, it is not my game and I could be wrong.

 

[Greebley]

I don't think trading is bad. Soon it won't be possible so I would trade as long at it is. I have no doubts that we can keep ahead of France - we are too big not to.

So take their money and use it outselves. That is how I like to play at least. France benefits but so do we.

 

[vmxa]

We benifit like Bill Gate finding a saw buck. France gets a tech they would have to research with money they have no use for.

 

[ThERat]

good progress guys. Let's use all the money we got to make full use of it.

I will be back on Saturday and can join again from Sunday onwards. Am a little out of touch with the game and roster but will take my time to read all the stuff that went on.

 

[Northern Pike]

View attachment Rat40-1754AD.SAV, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

1734 (0): We occupy the three tiles of Korean desert not within our borders, so that no AI civ is tempted to settle.

We had a galleon fairly close to making contact with Israel and three other northern civs...which then reversed course. I'll turn it around again.

We spend about 12K on rushes, mostly of hospitals and courthouses.

@Civinator: Having to re-build all one's granaries as hospitals at this point in the game seems nothing but irritating, frankly.

Da Nang completes BATTLEFIELD MEDICINE.


1736 (1): After a good bombardment by our ships of the line, we take Sao Paulo, held by two pikemen (2-0).

We storm Coimbra, held only by two musketmen (4-0).

We make our final preparations to attack Canada. The Canadian campaign will present some special problems: our front with them is very long and complicated, an inordinate number of their cities are on hills, and they've built some garrisons.

Steam Power due in one turn, but we've already cut the science rate and can't do it again.

Saigon completes CONSTITUTION; Rangoon completes MARINE ACADEMY.

Steam Power brings us into the IA. We have plenty of coal and rubber, predictably.

We can research SciMeth, for Arms Race, in just five turns.


1738 (2): We declare war on Canada, moving large stacks towards Halifax in the north and Calgary in the south.

We sink a Canadian dromon in the far south (5-0).

We get our first twenty riflemen from upgrades.


1740 (3): We seize Faro, held by three pikemen, and eliminate the "Strong Portuguese". We lose a hussar and capture six workers (8-1). Two Portuguese ships that we can see come off the map.

We sink another Canadian dromon in the far south (9-1).

We build a garrison close enough to Halifax to help our attackers there, then take the town from its garrison of two musketmen for the loss of a cannon (11-2).

We trample a Canadian arquebusier outside Halifax (12-2).

One of our lawyers outlies his Canadian equivalent, but we don't get a Great Artist (13-2).

We wreck a Canadian bombarde on the slow approach to Calgary (14-2).

The Canadians counterattack both our spearheads strongly. We don't seem to get much benefit from defending in the mountains, and lose six units while slaying nine attackers (23-8).


1742 (4): We capture Quebec, the Canadian enclave in the far south, held by three musketmen. We lose a cav (26-9).

In minor fighting on the approach to Calgary we rout two Canadian units, gaining a badly needed monk (28-9).

We meet the Maya in mid-ocean. They have eighteen cities, three of them Polish and one Egyptian. They’re backward and broke.

The French are ahead of us by Industrialization, though we didn’t even sell them Steam Power. I’d guess they bought Industrialization from the (unmet) Israelites, who are plainly advanced.

A single Canadian counterattack produces a retreat.


1744 (5): We take Calgary, held only by two musketmen and a cannon. We lose two cav but sink at least one ship in port and gain a monk (32-11).

We culture-bomb Calgary, which has the useful side effect of dissolving a Canadian garrison.

We storm Regina, the Canadian enclave in Spain, held by two musketmen with at least one ship in port (35-11). We also ride down a Swiss who fled the city at the last minute—very human behavior, but rather odd for the AI (36-11).

We batter a musketman in the vicinity of Calgary (37-11).

We go 4-2 against Canadian counterattacks, mostly in the west as we advance on Victoria (41-13).


1746 (6): Science down to 50%, SciMeth still due in one.

We scatter four Canadian units as we approach Victoria (45-13).

We storm Toronto, held by four musketmen. We lose a cav (49-14).

We melt down a cannon near Toronto (50-14).

The Canadians break through our infantry cover and get to our cav with some of their counterattacks. We go 7-7 overall (57-21).

We discover Scientific Method. As an unpleasant side effect, we lose the use of the Great Lighthouse.


1748 (7): Science down to 0%, since we’ll be getting Compound Steam Engine from Arms Race.

The long-idle Quy Don just manages to rush Arms Race in Hanoi before he dies of old age.

We seize Victoria in the west, held by two musketmen. We lose a cav (59-22).

We mop up another three Canadian units around Victoria (62-22).

We’ll have to hunt down another Canadian city, Charlottestown, just founded in the far south.

We capture the Canadian capital of Montreal , held by seven musketmen and an invisible unit. We lose three cav but gain World Religion Christianity (70-25).

Around Toronto and Montreal we bludgeon twelve assorted Canadian units, losing a cav (82-26). We gain a monk and our first Great Artist.

We culture-bomb Montreal with the Great Artist.

Our ambassador galleon makes contact with the British. They’re backward and broke with fourteen native cities.

We unhorse a Canadian hussar approaching Braga—the first action in that area (83-26).

The Persians demand rubber (didn’t I see a video with that title once? ). But they’re polite, we’re stronger than they are, and nothing happens when we refuse.

We repel one Canadian counterattack (84-26).

ARMS RACE brings us Compound Steam Engine and Steel. The original plan was to take Electricity as the second tech, since it’s in the second tier, but I see now that it’s no more expensive (in turns) than Steel.


1750 (8): We send SciMeth to the French for 13211 gold, and to the Persians for Industrialization.

We begin building workers, as Steel allows us to do.

We blast a Canadian longswordman on the long approach to Charlottetown in the far south (85-26).

We destroy a Canadian musket/settler team in a mountain clearing, losing a hussar but gaining a Great Artist (86-27).

We lose two units to counterattacks on Toronto (86-29).

@Civinator: We seem to have a serious bug, inasmuch as our first towns to produce workers have not lost population. Early in the round Phnom Penh displayed the disease message for two turns without losing population, too.


1752 (9): We take Thunder Bay, held by two musketmen, and end the Canadian presence in the west (88-29). We capture a worker.

We can upgrade slaves to full workers now.

We auto-raze Charlottetown, the newly founded Canadian town in the far south (garrison of two Swiss; cav lost; 90-30).

We smash a Canadian musketman manning a garrison (91-30).

We close in on the four remaining Canadian cities.

We go 1-4 against Canadian counterattacks, most of them made by Mounties now (92-34). The southern prong of our pincer movement had minimal infantry cover even at the beginning of the campaign, and has none now.


1754 (10): Three of the four Canadian cities we have to attack are very ugly targets—cities over size ten on hills—but we can support two of the three attacks with garrisons, and the third (at Ottawa) with artillery.

We clear two Canadian units off our lines of attack (94-34).

We storm Winnipeg, held by three musketmen. We lose a cav and gain a Great Leader (97-35).

We capture Vancouver, held by four musketmen and an artillery. We lose a cav (102-36).

We take Edmonton, held by two musketmen (104-36).

We do some monk-fishing against Canadian warriors before finishing Canada off. One yogi achieves a conversion, the other martyrdom (105-37).

We seize Ottawa, held by three musketmen, and eliminate the “Glorious Canadians”. We lose a Schneider (108-38). Twenty Canadian units that we can see come off the map.

Our ambassador galleon makes contact with the Nubians. They have ten native cities and they’re badly behind in tech.

We completed this round, mostly by rushing, twenty-one steam engines, twenty hospitals, fifteen academies, twelve courthouses, seven universities, seven light industry, six libraries, and nine other improvements.

Four lawyer victories this round generated two Great Artists.

Six yogi victories this round yielded four monks.

Nine eligible elite victories this round produced one Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

Our next challenge is to land on the nearby continent, obviously against the Aztecs on the Xochicalco peninsula (so deals or renewals with the Aztecs are now out of the question). When the time comes, our strategy should be to land, raze Xochi, found a city of our own, and culture-bomb it with a Great Artist. Then we’ll be able to defeat the Aztec field forces in battles fought within our own borders, without flip risk and with the aid of a garrison. The settler and the Artist for this plan are in a galleon off Ottawa, and they should not be used for trivial projects on our own continent. We also have three monks for later culture bombs.

We’ll need a lot of ships for the landing. So far we’ve rushed up a force of nine ships of the line and nineteen galleons, centered on Lagos, and our six Portuguese ports should continue rushing ships every two turns.

Our galleons in the far south will reach Egyptian waters and make contact next turn.

Our galleon off Nubia can reach Israel next turn—an important contact, since they’re probably the AI tech leaders. Then the galleon should reverse course to the west and meet the Russians, and that will give us contact with everyone.

Angkor should build the Eiffel Tower after it completes its light industry and Leader-rushes Industrial Core Centre.

Our new MGL still has his movement. He should presumably head north to rush Industrial Core Centre in the capital, but I’ve left it open to discussion.

We’ve hardly started building our rail network, but it won’t be any problem when workers don’t cost any population.

I’ve noticed no activity by invisible units of the overseas civs who’ve recently established enclaves on our continent.

We’re researching Electricity on the assumption that we’ll also choose Atomic Theory, for settlers and (less importantly) Theory of Relativity, before we turn to the upper lines of the tech tree. There are still two first-tier techs for which we can trade, Corporation and Nationalism, and of course that would be more efficient than self-researching them.

@Civinator: This was the first round in which I had any problems with the technical stability of the mod. I lost my work to “Fatal error—cannot allocate draw-buffer” twice.

 

[Northern Pike]

Before:

After:

The next step:

Earlier:

Wonders:

 

[Northern Pike]

Northern Pike - Just Played
Greebley - Up?
vmxa
barbslinger
ThERat - Back Sunday

So, Greebley, you're definitely up if you'd like to play before Sunday. If not, you and Rat can settle who should go next.

 

[barbslinger]

Nice work! Our own continent.

One note on the light and heavy industry builds I've noticed id that they decrease happiness and my first game I got caught with some happy issues. Also, the steam engines seemed to expire fairly quickly.

 

[Sparthage]

lurker's comment: Just wanted to congratulate you all on your own continent

 

[Northern Pike]

Also, the steam engines seemed to expire fairly quickly.

That's useful to know. In the current state of the Civilopedia, it's hard to know what improvements expire when. I hope that in the final version of the mod this will be covered more consistently.

 

[Greebley]

I got it. I can finish either Friday night or Saturday.

 

[vmxa]

I wonder if we are not getting a little carried away with the rushing?

Vitoria size 10:
Lib 120x8=960
Court 80x8=640
Uni 200x8=1600
Hosp 140x8=1120
Harbor
Chris Com
Islamic Comm
Buddhist Comm
Hindu Comm
Mandir
Academy 80x8=640
Nat Sym
Town Center 70x8=560

Hospital 140 shields in a tundra town? What is the value of double growth in a place that is max pop without yet another structure? It also only has one tile that is 2 food left to work, so 24 is the max food. Yeah we can grow the workers popped out, but do we care that much?

960+640+1600+1120+640+560=5520. Would seem like a massive investment to pick 10-12 beakers. Not too mention the work to come around over and over to rush things? Seems like a lot of effort and ton of gold for a marginal gain.