RB2 - Clueless Catherine Conquers Crowded Continents

[Kylearan]

Somehow CFC didn't let me post yesterday, weird. Anyway, nice progress, Aretii! I think settling towards Suleiman was the right choice, he's likely our first target (if nobody comes for us first).

You wrote you gave Suleiman the polite wave-off when he complained about our new city. Does anyone know what exactly the difference between the two options in that case is? I guess the harsher one gives a diplo penalty with the AI, but why should you ever want that? Maybe declaring a war against a less friendly AI makes it more understandable for the other AIs resulting in a smaller decrease in trust towards you, so being harsh towards Suleiman might actually have been better if my theory is true. Okay, it's not really a theory, it's pure speculation.

I'd suggest to build a second worker instead of a spearman. We don't need the spearman at the moment, our cities together with the warrior can defend themselves enough, I would think.

The Wheel next sounds good.

SpazzMaticus, sorry to see you go, but nothing you can do if you don't enjoy the game. I found playing in an SG can be fun nonetheless, but of course I respect your decision.

Gold Ergo Sum and SleepingMoogle, I'd suggest a swap as well until the loading issue is solved, and maybe even MuLepton can go before you if needed.

Roster:
Kylearan
Aretii -> just played
Gold Ergo Sum -> UP
SleepingMoogle -> on deck
MuLepton

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

If I had gotten this message two hours ago, I would've already had it played tonight and posted. But it is 1:15 now and I have to be up for work in less than six hours. I'll grab it and get it played tomorrow night and posted.

What are our goals for the next set of turns?

I tried a OCC on Immortal tonight. Early on, Elizabeth decided to ignore all the open land next to her and rush over and plant a city next to mine. I knew that was going to be trouble and probably should've raized it, but I knew I wasn't going to have a lot of room to build up an army, so I just played defense. I killed off probably 25 of her units with only an archer and 3 warriors, and eventually she came offering a little gold for peace. I managed to consolidate, get my tile improvements and stay competitive tech-wise. I was saving up Great Scientists to rush my way to Telegraph for Cristo, and then Radio for the Broadcast Towers, but eventually when I saw Elizabeth make peace with Rashad who I had paid to go to war with her, I knew I was boned. I am sure I could've survived, but I couldn't have survived and stayed on a path to victory I don't think once her declaration came. Oh well. I'll try again next time.

 

[MuLepton]

Had a look at the save myself, and boy, this is crowded

If I were playing solo, I'd probably be getting cold feet right about now, since both of our offensive units are down in the SW and two warriors (aztec and ottoman) AND a barb encampment (NE of Moscow) close to our cities

I agree about the Ottomans being the first logical choice for our aggression. If we conquer them, we'll have a nice hold on the entire north of our continent.

 

[SleepingMoogle]

The Steam problem looks to have sorted itself overnight so I can slot in again after Gold Ergo Sum.

A mixed force of warriors, horsemen and archers should have no problem overtaking Suleiman at this point, so let's get the war machine going.


Quick edit: I can play the turns tonight if needed, but that's up to Gold Ergo Sum.

 

[darrelljs]

Does anyone know what exactly the difference between the two options in that case is? I guess the harsher one gives a diplo penalty with the AI, but why should you ever want that?

Maybe you get a diplomatic boost from a friend with whom you've formed a Pact of Secrecy against Suleiman?

Darrell

 

[Aretii]

You wrote you gave Suleiman the polite wave-off when he complained about our new city. Does anyone know what exactly the difference between the two options in that case is? I guess the harsher one gives a diplo penalty with the AI, but why should you ever want that? Maybe declaring a war against a less friendly AI makes it more understandable for the other AIs resulting in a smaller decrease in trust towards you, so being harsh towards Suleiman might actually have been better if my theory is true. Okay, it's not really a theory, it's pure speculation.

I actually thought of that, but then I decided that it didn't matter because 1) Long-term we're after all their throats anyway and 2) Short-term we cannot afford to have Suleiman cram warriors and archers into our currently-undefended city.

On a related note, we should try to get anyone we can into a Pact of Secrecy vs. Suleiman. Wu Zetian is probably our best bet. Isolating Suleiman diplomatically is useful.

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Moogle:

I say whichever one grabs it first tonight should just play the turns.

I will check this thread before I pull it down.

I am Pacific time, and I am going to dinner and probably going to hit some golf balls, so it will be tomorrow East coast (or Europe) time before I pull it down.

 

[SleepingMoogle]

Alright, starting the turns then.

 

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 36:

Dear diary,

I looked from my tower today to see the Workers again. They are sooooo handsome, all bare-chested and covered in sweat like that!!

They rounded up the horsies today too. Wooooooo!!! Ponies for me!!!!!

That boring foreign advisor came around and told me scouts had met another city-state in the south called Geneva. Like whatever. They claim to be cultured, but who would want to live in a city on the tundra? That's like cold and stuff!

Maybe this will help me remember.


Also Hiawatha lives west of Germany. He's so handsome!



Turn 37:

Moscow has grown larger again. Not surprising because I live here! No more Workers outside my window. They are rouding up more ponies near St. Petersburg now.

I want to ride a pony, but we don't know how to do that yet. That is like so uncool.



Turn 39:

Apparently the people flocking to St. Petersburg are on the run from that smelly guy to my west. He created a city right next to mine!

Just you wait mister. My Warriors are better than yours.

I went to look at the Stone circle today. It will be the best place to party in all the world!



Turn 41:

Two cities to the south really don't like each other. One is that earlier city.. Geneva, that's it. See, that picture was helpful after all. The other one is Venice.

Venice wants me to help them out. Hmm.. maybe once I can ride a pony. Where are those instructors?!



Turn 42:

Dear diary,

Russia has more Warriors again. I went down to watch them train today. They are even better looking than the Workers! Soooo much muscle makes a girl really happy! I told them to train even more. To fight the bearded old man to the west of course.

Remind me to fire that Economic advisor. While I was doing the inspection, she sold my ponies! To that old fart Bismarck of all people.



She said that was the best offer she could make. And that the ponies were doing nothing anyhow. She said we could use the gold to befriend Helsinki later on. Maybe I'll just buy chocolate instead.

Helsinki considers itself Maritime. That oasis must be really awesome or something.



Turn 43:

Hiawatha <3 has a second city. So does that ugly Bismarck. He settled a city right next to Rome! Maybe he feels powerful with my ponies?

My lovely Warriors can fight with pointed sticks now. Very important, but still no pony rides. I had an awesome idea though, I can ride around in a Chariot instead! I told the geeky science guy to invent Chariots and Roads now.



Turn 44:

My stone circle is complete!!!



The party will be totally awesome. I told the advisors we need more Workers to put up decorations and stuff. All the good-looking leaders are invited.

Augustus visited already to admire the view. He doesn't like Bismarcks new city and proposed a pact of Secrecy against him. And I agreed, that cheapskate deserves it! It will be our little secret.

More good news, we have ponies again! Those Workers are soooo good.

I drew this picture from my tower. Isn't Russia pretty?

View attachment RB2_2200BC.Civ5Save

 

[SleepingMoogle]

To do list:

We need more happy. Hooking up the sugar and allying with Helsinki to get their silk should help a lot with that. I set both cities to emphasize production for now as we don't really want to grow into unhappiness just yet. And they can probably stay that way after Helsinki's food starts coming in.

We definitely need more military. Suleiman is #1 in the soldier count (naturally) Once Moscow finishes the second Worker, we should focus both cities on military production and quickly assimilate Suleiman's capital. The expansion we should raze as it won't add much to our empire by itself.

I haven't purchased Helsinki's friendship yet, preferring to wait until we have enough gold to immediately ally with them. (We need 500 gold for that)

Tech: Horseback riding next? Horsemen are better units than chariot Archers.

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Nice turn report. Entertaining and such.

I guess it is up to me.

My current plan is put in a road to Moscow with the western worker and put the Moscow worker onto the sugar when it finishes.

I will research Horseback Riding and begin building military.

 

[timski]

Why build a road so early? It won't significantly speed unit movements until bridges can be built. A 3-hex road between 2 population-3 cities may even loose you money. In contrast, Moscow's borders are about to explode with Culture, and unimproved resources abound.

Guard your front-line Worker as soon as possible. The Ottoman Warrior will grab it as the first act of a war that could kick off at any moment. Also worth noting that this war will immediately threaten most of your horses. You probably can't afford that tile being pillaged, and your (horse military) production queues suddenly emptying.

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

My thought is basically this:

Finish current worker improvement.

Go improve the Grassland cow. Then might as well road that tile while I am there.

Get the the sugar up and running with the new worker.

Road the tile west of the river.

Use the sugar worker to road the tile east of the river.

Now we have a trade route, which probably adds at least 2-3 gold, which pays for the road itself.

After the grassland cow, St. Pete won't be big enough to work any unimproved tiles, and Moscow isn't growing for 18 more turns, so neither of the cities will be working any unimproved tiles.

Grassland cow, sugar, and roading seems the way to go to me, while building combat units.

I am also going to turn growth back on. No reason not to grow into unhappiness. It doesn't hurt our production until -10, and 25% growth is better than no growth.

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Turn 46: Our Open Borders deal with Wu ends. Somebody demands dyes. We don't have any. Decide to start moving our Spearman home for the eventual war. Send the Scout east to see what is in the fog out there past Washington. Start moving our warrior towards our worker for protection. Wu builds the Great Library. Somewhat early I think.

Turn 47: We get a demand from Helsinki, our nearby MARITIME city-state, to conquer Lhasa, a more distant cultural city-state. This might be worth our time. I protected our worker with our loose warrior.



Turn 48: We got another social policy, which I decide to sit on. One of our cities demands wine. I made the following trade with Wu because she isn't a likely target for us any time soon, and we don't need 8 horses in the next 30 turns.



We had enough gold to buy 75 influence and go to allied status with the maritime Helsinki. I decided against it for now:



Turn 49: Suleiman DOW'd on us. I decided to burn our residual social policy on Discipline for its +15% adjacent tile combat bonus. This is the stack that Suleiman brought at us:



Two warriors and a chariot archer. We have a warrior that you cannot see on the hill tile with the worker and another warrior finished that turn in St. Pete.

Their Chariot Archer and their forested worker attacked our hill warrior. I killed their chariot archer with the warrior in our city. I bombarded their flatland warrior. This cleared a space to allow me to rush buy a spearman with our 600+ cash. I put the city to build another spearman. I went spearmen because I can see horses in Suleiman's city, so I want to be prepared in case he starts rolling out horsemen.



I move our injured hill warrior and our worker to the grassland cow tile opposite St. Pete.

T50: Suleiman moved their warrior onto the northern hill. I set the worker to start improving the grassland cow and the warrior on that tile to heal. I retreated our flatland warrior to the southern hill, that way I could move our spearman outside the city, allowing me to rush buy another spearman. I couldn't attack anything with the spearman I moved out of the city due to zone of control. I bombarded their flatland warrior for maximum damage..

T51: Their flatland warrior attacked our spearman, doing great damage due to the flatland defense penalty. I used that spearman to kill another chariot archer. I used the warrior that had previously killed their chariot archer to kill their warrior that attacked our spearman. And I used our new spearman to kill their warrior on our hill after bombarding their hill warrior with the city. Our worker finishes in Moscow, and I move him to start a plantation on the sugar. I set Moscow to build a 3-turn warrior. We finish researching The Wheel and I set us to research Horseback Riding.

T52: What is left of Suleiman's stack retreats except for one flatland warrior who I kill with our hill spearman. I retreat out units to heal inside of our cultural borders.



T53: We meet militaristic city-state Tyre east of Washington with our Scout. Our scouting spearman is getting caught up in rough terrain on the way back to the front.



The two warriors that Suleiman retreated decide to attack. He kills our flatland warrior and dies to our spearman. I bombard their warrior that killed our warrior and then kill him with our spearman. I returned our now mostly healed warrior to hold the hill tile. No more Suleiman units in sight, so I use the flatland combat bonus promotion on the spearman, since I can always retreat him before he gets attacked. I set all our units to fortify while healing.



I figure I will offer Suleiman peace to gear up for a bigger war since (I think) we killed his army. This is his response:



Caesar comes calling wanting us to DOW on Bismarck, but we have our own war to worry about, so I politely refuse:



T54: Pretty uneventful. Just healing our front line units.

T55: Still just healing. Our warrior finishes in Moscow and I move the warrior towards the front. I set Moscow to build a chariot archer to give us more ranged units.



This is the layout of our continent as we now know it:





Current status of the Suleiman war:

Units Lost:

Catherine: 1 warrior

Suleiman: 2 chariot archers, 5 warriors

 

[Kylearan]

SleepingMoogle, I loved your report! Hilarious. Just one request: Would it be possible to resize the pictures to <1000 pixels width? Otherwise I have to use the scroll bars to read the text, which is kind of annoying.

Suleiman DOWed us? This is funny. Good thing you had the money to buy spearmen, GES! What I still have to hammer in my thick head is that selling resources for flat sums of money is now possible...

Anyway, that makes MuLepton up and puts me on deck.

Roster:
Kylearan -> on deck
Aretii
SleepingMoogle
Gold Ergo Sum -> just played
MuLepton -> UP

 

[MuLepton]

I got it. Will play later today.

 

[MuLepton]

Finished my turnset, expect report shortly. Expect messups on my side and a shocking turn of events!

Edit:
Here we go!


Turn 0 (1800 BC):
I take a good look around. Ottoman are last in soldiers, so we have the upper hand, definitely:



Nothing to be done for faster production or anything, so I hit enter.

IBT:
Nothing happens.

Turn 1 (1760 BC):
Border expansion in Moscow, we gain a grassland tile to the SE.
Our SW spearman is ordered to move towards our territory.

More healing by our spearmen.


IBT:
Bismarck completes Great Lighthouse.


Turn 2 (1720 BC):
Spearman finishes in St. Pete. Production is set to chariot archer.
Plantation finishes, pasture finishes.

One spear finishes healing and is sent out towards Edirne; the newly produced spear follow.
Since we're at 0 income right now, I refrain from roading anything. The workers are sent to build mines and farms.


IBT:
Wu enters the classical era.

Turn 3 (1680 BC):
Our spearmen close in on Edirne - it's defended by a chariot archer:

Our warriors stay home in case of emergency.
The workers are told to mine the hill S of Moscow and farm the river W of Moscow.


IBT:
Suleiman wants peace!



That's a ... big offer
I still tell him no, he needs to go!
2 spearmen take 1 dmg each.

Turn 4 (1640 BC):
Our spears surround Edirne (well, half-surround).
One spear has enough move left to attack and does so (safe attack) - he loses 2 HP, Edirne 6.


IBT:
2 spearmen are damaged for 1 HP each again.

Turn 5 (1600 BC):
Our three spears attack:



- and Edirne is ours!


I decide to puppet it for now - it has access to new luxuries (silk, already hooked ) and we can always raze it later if we want.


IBT:
Nothing happens.

Turn 6 (1560 BC):
Two promotions, a new social policy, new build project, oh my!


Moscow is set to build our first Krepost.
I decide to pick up Warrior code as our next social Policy: It will unlock the bonus XP for units one.


I move the Great General we got from Warrior code towards the front together with the chariot archer.
Our spearmen are set to fortfy until healed, one is promoted to shock (attack bonus in open terrain), the other to drill (attack bonus in rough terrain).
I also notice that we captured a worker :

He is told to pasture the cows east of Edirne.

IBT:
Ok, remember the shocking turn of events I mentioned above?
Well, take a look at this:


The Ottomans ally with Helsinki, and Helsinki promptly declares war on us
A finnish spearman moves out from their borders and towards Edirne - he ends up two tiles SE of Edirne's cows.
I'm so shocked, I forget to take any decent screenshots for a while.

Turn 7 (1520 BC):
As response, I move our two healthiest spears towards Helsinki and our chariot archer on the hill SW of St. Pete. The GG is set to wait in St. Pete and provide his bonus to our chariot.

Now, the chariot move was pure - I thought I might have enough move to bombard the spear, but it turns out that I don't. So now the chariot is sitting in range of the spear. Not good

IBT:
The Helsinki spear charges up the hill and kills our chariot, well damn
HBR finishes, we enter the classical era:



Turn 8 (1480 BC):
St. Pete bombards the spear, and I move general to somewhere safe (I hope), namely under cover of one of our warriors. Stupid move, it's not like the spear could take St. Pete before reinforcements arrive.
Said reinforcements are our spears which converge on the intruder.

IBT:
Helsinki withdraws the spear!
Bismarck wants to form a pact of secrecy against Hiawatha, I politely decline.
An ottoman warrior and settler appear from Istanbul:

I remember to take screenshots again. Sometimes.

Turn 9 (1440 BC):
St. Pete finishes its own chariot (hopefully he fares better than his predecessor...) and starts work on a Krepost.

Edirne bombards the ottoman warrior.
That silly jaguar warrior makes maneuvering difficult up there.
I fortify one spearman on the hill SW of near St. Pete to guard against incursions from Helsinki.
Our chariot moves in range of the ottoman warrior, bombards him and takes him to half health.


IBT:
The Pyramids are built in a far away land.
Helsinki sends out his spear and attacks our fortified unit on the hill - and dies.
The weakened ottoman warrior atacks Edirne.
A second warrior from Suleiman enters.

Turn 10 (1400 BC):
The situation around Edirne:

Our chariot kills the weakened warrior, Edirne bombards the second warrior.
Our spears move towards that warrior, but are ordered to stay out of range of Istanbul - I don't think we want to be bomarded when the warrior will probably come to Edirne next turn anyway.
Our Great General "covers" our chariot, so he can supply his bonus to most of our spears.

That's it! I forgot to take some really important screenshots during my last two turns, go me! I did take a few at the end of my turnset:

The western front:


Our empire:


The tactical view:


Kylearan is up next, Aretii on deck, I think.
Oh, the save. Can't forget the save!

 

[MuLepton]

Oh, something I forgot: Research is set to Archery, since that will open up Mathematics and catapults.

 

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Make sure we finish pasturing the grassland cows above St. Pete. I think it only needs one turn of work, but I had to move our worker off with the injured warrior at the start of the war.

 

[MuLepton]

More stuff I randomly remembered when driving to work:

• Lhasa wants Helsinki eliminated (I think it was Helsinki). I don't know what'll happen to our relationship with Helsinki when we eliminate the Ottomans, but it's something to keep in mind (Lhasa's cultural though, so getting on good terms with them is of low importance for us - how nice it would've been if their roles had been reversed!)
• In retrospect, I'm not sure how good of a decision it was to set St. Pete to build a Krepost next. It will only finish during the next round, so Kylearan can change it to whatever he wants.