RB29a - Cultural Extermination

lurker's comment:

When you are at peace with a Civ, one thing you might try is putting military on the borders close to resources. Often you can get the "friendly" civs to pull units from their cities to protect their resources. A few extra units on the coal mine and not in the city can make a huge difference for the flipping odds. :goodjob:

Nice game so far btw. Good luck!

GS

 
Very quiet turns militarily and culture-wise (no flips or revolts :( )

However, I did FINALLY get to found next spot:



:D

Also founded Tula on the Japanese border, and our island colony outside of Berlin. Other than that, I spent most of the turn building railroads, spreading religion to our new cities, training Infantry for the upcoming conflicts with Japan and Rome, and killing the odd French/German rifle. Caesar completed Broadway in 1933; at least we got 301 gold out of it. Took Industrialism as the next tech; we're going to need tanks to take out Casesar's army before we run out of time.

I did look for a Great Artist pump; unfortunately, most candidates can't house more than 5 specialists, and that can't compete with Moscow's GP output. There's a theater queued next in Moscow, if we switch the scientists, we might have a shot at an artist there.

Only thing for the next turn is a Christian Missionary in the Galleon in Berlin. There's 3 missionaries on the island, ready to convert next turn as well. I've been storing extra Infantry in the east in Kursk.

dathon
 

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Three more cities and we are still at 105 gpt. Wow....

Not much of France left but that Julius better leave Eiffel Tower alone. They go quicker for electricity than radio so the switch to industrialism hopefully won't have an effect on that. It'd be nice to have that 50% boost in every city.

Having oil hooked for us means we don't need combustion?? I still have to see it to believe it. (although it works with calender but strategic resources??) If it does we can start pumping out tanks in 5 turns and rule the universe. :assimilate:

Now that it's Sullla's turn he'll get all the flips :crazyeye:

Steady as she goes and hopefully get one more in before my OOP :goodjob:
 
Three more cities and we are still at 105 gpt. Wow....

You can thank all of our new religions for that. I was down to low 70's in 1932 after founding both Next Spot and Tula. It's funny, with all of our shrines, gold multipliers, and free specialists, the new cities are pretty much paying for themselves out of the gate.

Those tanks will be the key to our victory, and we need to go ASAP. St. Pete churned nothing but Infantry for garrison duty against Toku and Julius, and Rostov/Moscow should do the same now that our cities are pretty well religion-saturated. Time is our biggest enemy now. Only 110 turns to flip all of Caesar's and Tokugawa's lands!

BTW, I'm out of town this weekend, and might be busy Monday night, so look for my next play availability next Tuesday evening.

dathon
 
lurker's comment:
I understand hypothetically that spies can be used but only for information gathering. Sabotage would be in bad form for this variant and appreciate the input KMadCandy theoretically. :)

let me step off of sulla's toes just to make sure there's no misunderstanding *giggle*. i'm not making a rule or explaining one that was already in place. as far as i know there isn't a rule stated anywhere. i'm just saying (or not saying) what one or more teams may or may not have already done, if and when the question of spies came up in their own games. so that sulla, since he would be the one to make an official ruling if there is one to be made, knows how it was handled by at least one team, in theory, hypothetically. this mystery team or teams shall remain anonymous for the time being, if indeed they do exist. i know sulla can't read those threads until your game is over, so he wouldn't have seen any of those discussions if they had indeed taken place ;). a friend of a friend of a friend told me about all this. and besides, it's kind of fun to type to type in this silly manner.

and now, i am i done interrupting the SG with hypotheticals, and back to quietly reading :) good luck with your move!
 
@Kmadcandy

The variant explains from the beginning no stealing workers, pillaging, etc. so the spy obviously without your input logically, theoretically could only gather information. Since we haven't got communism yet it was just something I wondered since in my own SP games I always build them usually to gather intelligence for troops or space race. Trying to foil a space part is risky and very expensive so even if we could we wouldn't have enough gold for it.

Appreciate the luck with the move since it's something always really hate doing. Thanks again Kmadcandy and always enjoy your input. :crazyeye:
 
(0) 1940AD As usual, things look pretty good. Since we have plenty of money, I'm going to run 80% culture for a little bit (it's better to run even numbers on the slider, since there's less loss due to rounding at 60% or 80% than at 70%). Techwise, Industrialism is certainly not a bad choice, and cranking a couple dozen tanks seems like a good plan. We should also bear in mind that going for Rocketry will be another goal (after Radio for Eiffel), as gunships are an even better counter to enemy tanks than your own tanks!

Cities to watch: Paris (long overdue at this point!), Hamburg, Setia, Pisae. We're probably going to have to declare on Rome soon to take out the defenders in Pisae - but let's get some tanks first!

(2) 1942AD Revolt in Paris! :)



Anyone's guess if we'll get the second one during my turnset, but very good news regardless. It was way past time for a flip there.

(4) 1944AD Busy turn! First, we get the message that Moscow has achieved Legendary culture:



Just two more for a Cultural victory, eh? ;) Also in the news, we get the first revolt at Hamburg:



Halfway there at both Paris and Hamburg, making some nice progress. Since Industrialism will finish next turn, I queue up cheap missionaries at all of our high production cities; about 10 of them are going to pop out next turn!

By the way, did you know that we have Buddhism in every single one of our cities? It's true! 41 cities and 41 shrine income from the Mahabodi. Our Buddhist missionaries are sitting on their keesters right now waiting for more cities to flip to us.

Important side note: one of our dots opened up this turn because Hamburg went into revolt. The actual tile is only 46% Russian, but we can grab the spot because of the revolt (cultural borders do some strange things when enemy cities go into revolt). Try to keep an eye on this in case we can profit from it!

(5) 1945AD Industrialm -> Radio (10 turns). I start about a half-dozen tanks in our major production cities. We also have about 5 different sources of aluminum, although amazingly not one of them is mined at the moment! I'll make sure to fix that.

My luck keeps rolling, as we get another revolt at Pisae:



Is it time for me to go and buy some lottery tickets? :lol: 3 revolts in just 5 turns. So... maybe we don't need to declare war on Rome just yet after all! (Either we got very lucky, or my theory about number of defenders and culture flipping has some holes in it!) The Pisae location is critical, because it actually opens up THREE different locations on our dotmap. Let's hope we get another revolt there soon for the flip.

(7) 1947AD Two interesting bits of news this turn:



Temujin declaring on Bis is mostly a non-event, although it would actually be BAD if he captured Hamburg now (since we would then have to get another two revolts, as opposed to just one). We'll have to wait and see what happens. (We can always cut off Open Borders with Temujin if necessary.)

The Toku annoucement is a bit more serious. That means he already has Rocketry, and has had it for some time. Still, there's probably no need to panic. The odds of Toku researching ALL the necessary spaceship techs in the next 100 turns, AND building the darned spaceship, seems pretty small. (He's lacking both Assembly Line and Electricity, after all...)

(9) 1949AD Should I stop Temujin from attacking Bis' cities? He's got a whole pile of cavs on the way... Nah, doesn't seem worth it. We can always flip Mongolian cities a million miles away from home easily.

(10) 1950AD Whoa! Temujin just gave us a HUGE assist!



He just razed Hamburg AND Dortmund to the ground!!! :dance:

Good thing I have some settlers nearby to fill in the gaps! Dortmund site grabbed first (with a settler I was planning to use on the Setia location), then the Hamburg spot. Those icky German cities have been replaced with properly Russified names: Voronezh and Pskov. That's the way Cathy likes it! :D

And that's that for my turnset. Pretty eventful, all things considered. Paris is still taking its sweet time flipping, but everything else was pure gravy. Bis is down to just 4 cities left; since we're nowhere close to getting any of them, we could potentially even make peace with him for now and try to trade for Artillery (which he picked up recently). I have no idea if he'd still be willing to deal with us, but it's a possibility.

We ARE going to have to declare on Rome sometime in the near future, because although Pisae looks like it will flip to us, Cumae emphatically will NOT do so. The good news is that by the time Cumae gets under 50% (in, say, 25-30 turns) we'll have so many infantry and tanks that dealing with Caesar shouldn't be much of an issue. We're already WAY out in front in military power.
 
Here are the new cities on the German front:



Our missionaries will now finally have something to do again, heh. Some of them will have long hikes over here, but it'll be worth it for the extra culture.

We also just passed the Domination mark, with 62.4% of the land (and way more than that in population!) Even if we end up falling short of Conquest, that's some pretty good stuff in my book. :king:

Sullla
LKendter <<< UP NOW
Cosmichail <<< on deck
dathon78

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/12069/RB29a-AD-1950.zip
 
That means he already has Rocketry, and has had it for some time.

He's had it at least since the turnset I played before the last one. That's when I first noticed the SAM infantry. I meant to call it out specifically, but was in a little bit of a hurry on the report and forgot. However, Cosmichail pointed out the SAM's in his comments to my report, so I figured everybody knew. Sorry for the confusion!

Excellent news on the German front! :clap: I had actually debated bringing in Casesar vs. Bismark, but held off as I didn't want him capturing and garrisoning more cities. Go Khan!

dathon
 
lurker's comment: One thing to note, AFAIK it's actually twice as hard to flip a city when you are at war with that civilization, which might be why it took Paris so long to flip.
 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/RB29_-_Cultural_Extermination_AD-1960.Civ4SavedGame


1950 AD
I think we made a mistake with getting industrialism before radio. Our military is pretty good right now, and we just delayed the free broadcast towers. We lost focus on the good of getting flips.
(IT) Khan demands electric power - NO!


1954 AD
(IT) France is really hurting, as he will offer Tours for peace. :lol:
We finally enter the modern era.


1955 AD
(IT) We pop a GE from a city other then Moscow. I am sending him to Moscow to make a big push for Eiffel tower.


1958 AD
(IT) :assimilate: :borg: :assimilate: :borg:



:assimilate: :borg: :assimilate: :borg:



1959 AD
(IT) We complete the Eiffel Tower.

=======================

Summary:

One more flip has happened. Lots of temples built.

I concede we have lost this variant, but I would still like to see France flipped out of existence before it ends.
 
Please skip me until May2nd. It too late to play now and have lots to do tomorrow. Nice on getting the Eiffel tower and I wasn't totally keen on the switch to industrialism however very glad to see we didn't miss it. I was worried Julius might snag it.
 
I think we made a mistake with getting industrialism before radio. Our military is pretty good right now, and we just delayed the free broadcast towers. We lost focus on the good of getting flips.

I would actually argue that Industrialism was the faster route. The biggest obstacle is Rome, and the only way we're going to knock over Cumae, and get cities going deep in their borders, is to knock out their military as fast as possible.

Either way, though, it's too little too late. I don't see us flipping the entire map in 90 turns, despite our huge army and Eiffel Tower. Not that we should give up, but I think we can see that we're not going to make it.

As I said previously, I'm out until Tuesday night. Lee and Sullla, you can either take the weekend off, or finish the game off. I won't be offended or heartbroken if you do end it :) It's been a fantastic run, I've learned a lot, and had a great deal of fun. Couldn't ask for more for my first Civilization SG :D

dathon
 
lurker's comment: One thing to note, AFAIK it's actually twice as hard to flip a city when you are at war with that civilization, which might be why it took Paris so long to flip.

This is not the case; I've verified this in debug mode. The flip probability is exactly the same regardless of whether or not the two civilizations in question are at war. I wonder how this urban legend got started... perhaps because it's impossible for cities captured in war to flip back to their original owner (?)

LKendter said:
France is really hurting, as he will offer Tours for peace.

Interesting... I didn't include anything in the variant rules to cover this situation, since the AI almost never is willing to part with cities. I wonder if we should have taken the deal and then simply re-declared war 10 turns later? I'm not blaming LK, just thinking out loud here.

dathon78 said:
Either way, though, it's too little too late. I don't see us flipping the entire map in 90 turns, despite our huge army and Eiffel Tower. Not that we should give up, but I think we can see that we're not going to make it.

Well... no. But it's been pretty clear to me for the past 100 turns that it was unlikely we would manage to achieve Conquest. I think we would have had a decent chance on a Small map, but there was simply too much ground to cover here. (I do hope one of the other teams manages it, but that seems a bit unlikely.) I should remind everyone, however, that in the discussion thread at Realms Beyond most of the signups wanted to play this on MONARCH difficulty on a Standard map. Not quite as easy a variant as it sounded initially, eh? ;)

If we can manage to eliminate France, flip another capital (Kyoto), and reach 70% land area, I'll consider this game a major success.

As I said previously, I'm out until Tuesday night. Lee and Sullla, you can either take the weekend off, or finish the game off. I won't be offended or heartbroken if you do end it It's been a fantastic run, I've learned a lot, and had a great deal of fun. Couldn't ask for more for my first Civilization SG

I may or may not have time to play before Tuesday. If not, we can certainly stand to wait a couple days, since we've had a consistently fast pace throughout. :)
 
lurker's comment:
Well I think the variant is very possible. It probably would take some innovation in strategy to consistently beat, but very possible in my mind. If anyone wants to try again with a new map I'm in :)

GS

 
I may or may not have time to play before Tuesday. If not, we can certainly stand to wait a couple days, since we've had a consistently fast pace throughout. :)

My vote is to wait until the other people are back. This have been rough already with only 4 players, and I don't mind a slight break.
 
And the lurkers will still be here when you get back!

Great game so far, one of the best SG reads in some time.
 
This is not the case; I've verified this in debug mode. The flip probability is exactly the same regardless of whether or not the two civilizations in question are at war. I wonder how this urban legend got started... perhaps because it's impossible for cities captured in war to flip back to their original owner (?)\

lurker's comment: Huh, I'm not sure myself where the theory came from, I read it in a thread somewhere, if I can manage to find it I'll post it here.
 
lurker's comment: Huh, I'm not sure myself where the theory came from, I read it in a thread somewhere, if I can manage to find it I'll post it here.

lurker's comment: i have at least one source handy. i previously linked it in another team's thread when they were wondering about the formula. i've linked this post in lots of threads about culture flips (not just this SG variant). apparently i've been spreading an urban legend! i don't know how to read sdk, i just went by what i read here and never checked CvPlot::doCulture myself. i don't even know where to find that *giggle*.

link to formula

the false part i guess: "If you are at war with the owner of the city the value of cultureGarrison is doubled, so it is harder to flip cities of civs with whom you are at war."
 
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