RB29c - Cultural Extermination

[Mutineer]

lurker's comment:
About GA.

My personal oponion that it is way to late to settle it.
technical note about using GA for culture bomb.

When GA used for bombing it put culture not in one hit, but in 20.

So, in your case 6000 culture div 20 = 300 culture apply 20 times try standart turn formula of applying culture.

Formular is a bit complex, but for simplicity it will look like
20*(300 + city culture/turn)

So, if city produce at that moment 400 culture turn GA will actially poor
20*(300 + 400)= 14000 culture in surrounding ties.

So, the best way to use culture bomb will be by maximising culture production when doing it. In your case it mean runnign castle sysytem and coverting every citisen to artist, bomb and then the same turn return to normal state.

 

[sooooo]

Gunships would be better than infantry as ... a) we can clear out every defender in the city legally

Is this true? If a gunship kills the last defender, then doesn't it finish it's move on the same square as the city, hence breaking the variant?

 

[sooooo]

@Mutineer: Interesting. So culture bombing a large mature city with plenty of culture already has a greater effect than bombing a new city? Crazy. I guess if it depends on CPT, then we get a greater effect if we have cathedrals in that city too.

If this is the case, then we should use the artist to bomb Yakutsk? Has about 5 cathedrals in it anyway.

 

[Ozbenno]

Is this true? If a gunship kills the last defender, then doesn't it finish it's move on the same square as the city, hence breaking the variant?

A gunship can't capture an enemy city, so if it kills the last defender it stays outside.

Didn't know that about a culture bomb either.

 

[sooooo]

Here's what I think we should do:

Get all our power (which is twice as large as JC's) to the roman borders in the next turnset. Pretty much all our workers should be making a railroad from Rome to Mongolia. Build some more if necessary. Then declare on Rome, wipe out as many troops as poss with artillery, hopefully before he gets infantry. Think we should research infantry BTW as it is on the way to tanks. After we have declared, Genghis's price will surely be lower and we can bribe him into the war. He says "We would have nothing to gain", but I've seen this change once we are at war (something about it being OK to join a war classed as a "dogpile" war).

Ozbenno, are you passing the save on or are you finishing there? You had 3 turns of anarchy, so you can play another 6 turns if you like.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Here's what I think we should do:

Get all our power (which is twice as large as JC's) to the roman borders in the next turnset. Pretty much all our workers should be making a railroad from Rome to Mongolia. Build some more if necessary. Then declare on Rome, wipe out as many troops as poss with artillery, hopefully before he gets infantry. Think we should research infantry BTW as it is on the way to tanks.

This is the idea I also had in mind, but the problem I can see with it is that Jules was piling units into Rome on my turnset, so we need to analyse how many units we can actually take out at Neapolis and Bremen. With our power advantage I think Jules will turtle, but I think we need to go for it anyway. Likely as not, he's researching Assembly and maybe his upgrade power boost will tempt him out (to his doom ).

For my money, set research to Assembly, then Electricity. Then decide between Industrialism and Flight/Rocketry.

 

[Ozbenno]

OK, I'll play the rest of the set tomorrow, unless Sunrise is desperate to play today.

 

[sunrise089]

Well I should claim to be desperate, since that gives me nice and safe Moving Troops Around and Building a Railroad turns, but you can feel free to finish if convenient

The Sooooo/Swiss plan is fine. As fort the culture bomb, is there any consensus on where to use it? Yakutsk seems like it would be the only place where it may immediately flip a city, but but those island cities are always worrying.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we should detonate the bomb in Khan's direction, as we'll have to do the city-taking ourselves when it's his turn, so the Yak gets my vote.

 

[sooooo]

Some of the troops inside Rome will reinforce the cities we hit on the first turn. Some of them will be used as a naval stack, so have reinforcements at potential landing sites like Magnitogorsk. I doubt he would do an amphi attack at Nizhniy Novgorod.

 

[sooooo]

Hi, unfortunately I will need a skip for the next round and probably some more rounds afterwards. I had a bit of trouble with apple not delivering me one of their shiny new computers on time, thus I will be away on a work trip sans-computer. So no civ for me until the end of June. Hopefully I'll be able to keep track of the game still though.

 

[Kodii]

Yakutsk sounds good to me too.

As long as we can defend from anything JC puts against us, go ahead and declare war.

 

[sunrise089]

Ok Sooooo, skip request noted. Also, I assume you have a MacBook pro ordered? Is there a Mac version of Civ, or will you be running Parallels or Boot Camp or whatever it is they use? When you get it, let me know what you feel the Civ performance is like. I think they have mobile X700s IIFC, or something of that class from ATI. I may be picking up a similar notebook down the road, and am curious if Civ is playable and at what settings.

 

[Ozbenno]

I test out Mutineer's GA bomb theory. Yakutsk has 19,619 culture. I fire all the citizens and employ 15 artists, giving us 661 culture a turn. If I understand the theory correctly we should get an increase of 20*(300 + 661)= a large number culture.



Now that's not enough for a cultural border expansion and a culture bomb does not increase your culture per turn output (which determines ownership of tiles) so I can't see the benefit of this but lets do it.

For the record, Genghis' ownership of the tiles from New Sarai down are 48, 57, 57, 53, 55.



Well whaddaya know?



We only got an increase of 6000 culture but I assume the game recalculated ownership of the tiles based on us having 661 culture/turn. Nice trick

Tiles are now 41, 49, 49, 45, 45.

Anyway, Research is set to Assembly Line, the Roman border appears safe from incursion so we can (somewhat) safely do this (after I beg 300 gold of him).



Our favourite attack dog comes cheap as well.



He has a few troops in the area.

I think it is unavoidable that we're going to face some pillaging from JC, especially his cossacks but we should be fine.

The only two things that happened IBT were one artillery attack against Cumae, easily defended and Old Sarai revolting again.

Actually the main worry is naval. He has Destroyers out. I've got some on queue but can't seem to upgrade anything?

I bombard and destroy all defenders but one in Neapolis so GK can clean out the survivors. His main attack is looking like coming to the eastern Roman cities.



Good work GK



Big problem though, we can't get to the flipper square. I've got a settler to the square east but it won't be nearly as good as that square. As this is my last turn, it can be the group discussion point.

Workers are on auto-railroading everywhere (its taking so long). Cancel them if you need anything else done sunrise.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88650/RB29_-_Cultural_Extermination_AD-1920.Civ4SavedGame

 

[sunrise089]

Ok. Got it, will play and post tomorrow (hopefully). Fighting the war shouldn't require too much discussion - just kill pillagers and attack border tiles when possible. That flipper tile does present a problem however. I don't know what the better move is - wait for it to become available or settle now. Is there any direction other than that tile to put pressure on the island city off the screen to the west? If not I'd probably say we have to wait on the tile.

Also, what are our civics like? Are we still in Caste system? When do we want to head back towards US?

 

[Mutineer]

lurker's comment:
Yes, increase of city culture is allwasy = value of bomb (6000 in your case), but amount of culture generated in ties is depends on city culture/turn.
Actially it should be expected, as idea is simular to other GP's scaling.

Value of ligthbulbing scale with civ population. GE build rushing scale with CITY population, GM trade mission scale from a bunch of factors.
So, it is not surprising that GA culture bomb scale with something?

It is interesting that in FFH mods used this effect. You can build unit that bomb city for 20 culture. One may think, useless. Only good for firs border pop. But wait!
City culture increase just by 20.
But, if city configure for max culture, one can observe borders moving very well and % shift in favor fast. So, so long as you allready pushing on opponent city, few such bombs and he below 50%.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Nice work, Ozbenno Any need to for sunrise to gift Khan Artillery?

Maybe we can put a city 1W of the workshop tile in Ozbenno's last screenie, and then settle the flipper in a second step?

 

[sunrise089]

Swiss: Unless I'm mistaken about the 2 tile rule (does it work differently diagonally?) there isn't room for two cities there. I wish there was. Since Khan is already at war, I would only be gifting him artillery to help him win, right? How much of an issue could that be when we go fight him? I know this is only Prince without our variant, but AI counterattack artillery stacks are annoying.

 

[Mutineer]

lurker's comment:
Cities on separate land mass (different islands for example) can be next to each other. 2 ties rule does not apply.

 

[KMadCandy]

lurker's comment: @ozbenno: "Actually the main worry is naval. He has Destroyers out. I've got some on queue but can't seem to upgrade anything?"

i hit shift-enter (didn't watch anything that happened, so i can't spoilerize) and moved the frigate that was in Turfan to your waters. it will upgrade now to a destroyer. the cost is 515 gold (ouch) which you did not have the turn of the save when it was in mongol waters. no matter, it wouldn't have been eligible for upgrade there anyway. if you can't afford it the option box is there but greyed out, maybe that was the confusion? you can now tho. i do only see one frigate, and frigates are the only thing that upgrade to destoyers.

good luck guys!

@mutineer: i used your GA bomb trick today myself in a completely different type of game and it was lovely, thank you!