RB2b - Mali - Noble - Just Win Baby!

Our continent:

rb2b-ad1500.jpg


Closeup of the Indian border. You can see where I wanted the settler to go (sort of) - on the western tip - there are 2 macemen over there already
rb2b-border.jpg
 
Great job on Delhi! We're definitely in a nice position here.

I couldn't quite figure out why we declared peace... why not roll them off the map? Something to think about for later, anyway.

As for the engineer, it's a waste to use him on the national epic, and a criminal waste to use him for a golden age. I say we get a wonder with him, get economics with liberalism, then use the merchant and another GP for the golden age. That way, we can really start to pull ahead of the pack.

The other thing we should start thinking about is our victory condition. Given that we have neither cultural supremacy or particularily good relations, I suggest either space or conquest. Domination is also on the table, but would require taking our continent quite quickly.

What say you? I'm up for either. Space is the easy option, but conquest lets us have some fun. :lol:

-Jester
 
IIRC, we're 9 turns from building the Taj Mahal, so I'd hold off on any GP started golden age until we know whether we get it. As for victory condition, it looks like we'll need to get a move on if we're going to conquer the entire world. Whether or not we go the whole way, I'd kind of like to conquer our continent.
 
Definitely use the great engineer for a build, though I'm also unsure on which one. Don't know what's available.

Victory condition, hmmm. Space is too easy and this game is a way to learn the basics of CivIV. I'd have to go with either Domination or Conquest. Plus I suck at warmongering and really need the help there.:blush:

I wouldn't mind a diplomatic victory but I believe we've already screwed that one up.:D
 
We're 9 turns away from Notre Dame in Timbuktu. We're not building Taj Mahal, unless you meant 9 turns away from the tech that allows it (not sure which tech that is).

I think I agree on using the engineer on a wonder - and taking Econ for the free great merchant. Next person could check out how many hammers it would add to Notre Dame - might be worth finishing that off - otherwise I'm not sure when the next available wonder will be. It would be nice if Econ allowed a wonder.

As for why we declared peace, we didn't really have a whole lot of healthy units in the area and he had a Sword and a Chariot 1 turn away and I wasn't sure what else he'd throw at us. I figured we could use a 10 turn breather.

I think I vote for taking our continent and then going for space.
 
1) Taj Mahal is from nationalism, IIRC. I think that would be a good wonder to grab with our engineer, but there are obviously options here.

2) Simultaneous golden ages are additive. If we get the Taj while in a golden age, it just adds 10 turns onto the end of the current one. That could really rocket us pretty far ahead.

I think I agree with the notion that we should at least conquer our continent, and then decide either to go scorched earth on everyone else, or to space race our way to victory.

So, we'd better start thinking about what our best window is to kill Peter. Given the strength of cossacks, we either need to kill him with cavalry before he gets his, or we kill him with infantry afterwards. Thoughts?

-Jester
 
It looks like I mixed up wonders. Oops. The idea of a double golden age certainly sounds interesting.

Iester said:
So, we'd better start thinking about what our best window is to kill Peter. Given the strength of cossacks, we either need to kill him with cavalry before he gets his, or we kill him with infantry afterwards. Thoughts?

What about riflemen? With +25% vs mounted units, they would attack at 17.5 vs. the cossacks' 18, which isn't bad given a defensive bonus. They're also a fair bit less expensive than infantry. Whether we can take towns is going to depend on exactly how the "does not require defensive bonuses" works. At first glance, it sounds perfectly clear. On the other hand, I've had plenty of success defending with mounted units in another game. Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
(0) 1500AD I overlook our empire and decide that it’s time for some serious building. I generally prefer to play a game peacefully, only fighting wars when necessary. Infrastructure will be my priority.

I also sign Open Borders with Mao, seeing as how he’s the only person willing to sign one with us. We need at least one friend in the world, and if it’s Mao, that’s cool.

I send our great scientist to Timbuktu to build an academy.

(1) 1505AD Liberalism comes in, I pick Nationalism, then go to research Economics.
I decide to keep organized religion, as that’ll help us with our infrastructure push.

I rush The Taj Mahal in Niani with our great engineer.

(2) 1510AD Our golden age begins!
Our settler cannot move until our border at Delhi expands. I let him sit still.
The general plan is to build universities then banks in our major cities, and granaries/forges in smaller ones, and theaters/granaries/forges in border cities.

(3) 1515AD
Notre Dam is built elsewhere, and just as our golden age is getting underway too. This is very unfortunate. I build an academy in Timbuktu with our great scientist.

(4) 1520AD We meet Roosevelt of the Americans. He is annoyed towards us because we traded with his worst enemy. That’s probably Mao.
Economics come in and I decide to switch over to Free Market.
We get the great merchant Hanno for being the first to get Economics. I use him to knock off half the beakers for Constitution, which I want for representation.

(5) 1525AD I hook up the clams with a work boat.

(6) 1530AD Zzz.

(7) 1535AD Mao wants Gunpowder from us. Since he’s the only person who even remotely likes us, I decide to give it to him. He goes from cautious to pleased. I think one tech hardly hurts, and we’re ahead of all the AI anyway, so why not make a friend?

(8) 1540AD Zzz.

(9) 1545AD I decide to buy engineering from Mao for Music and 450g. The gold is pricey, but by now all the other civs have engineering, and since no one else is willing to trade, I might as well with Mao.
Constitution comes in, so I switch to Representation and Freedom of Religion in hopes that the other civs won’t hate us as much. FoR helps, but not enough. Peter is actually willing to trade his furs with us. Otherwise, relations are still dismal.

(10) 1550AD Our golden age ends.
We get corporation and another boost in all our cities. I tentatively set research to Chemistry.
Delhi revolts again. Clearly the Indians must go.

Notes: Awdaghast is building a work boat to send to the whale.
A worker is chopping a forest near Kumbi.
We should road more tiles, especially tiles near cities. True, roads don’t add to the value of the tile anymore, but better transportation infrastructure is important.
Because of stupidity, I did not move our large stack of units to the Indians until Turn 7. It may be one or two more turns before we should redeclare on Asoka. Delhi is a useless city that keeps going into revolts because of Asoka’s massive cultural influence. The sooner we destroy him the better.

After this infrastructure push, science went up by over 50%, and I slashed civic upkeep costs. Our finances are in much better shape now.

I believe we should build Wall Street and Oxford in Timbuktu, or at least Oxford. It’s a holy city and it has an academy, so we should turn it into a super commercial hub.


The Save
 
I've got it, and I'll play tomorrow evening. In the meantime, here are some things I've been pondering.

We have a level 4 mace in Delhi, so we can build the heroic epic. Assuming that the +100% military production only applies to the city it's built in (I sure hope that's the case), we should probably stick it in one of our more productive towns. I was thinking either Niani or Tadmekka with some emphasis on Tadmekka. Once we get biology, there'll be enough food there to work the last hill and maybe add an engineer specialist. We can also rail the hills for even more hammers. Niani could also certainly gain some hammers using a couple lumber mills (and rails), so the choice is fairly open.

Once again, there are lots of research options available (I think I'm seeing a pattern here :) ). Given Peter's current level of advancement, I'm kind of tempted to rush for cavs, and start a small war with him before he gets to cossacks. Some other options I'd be quite open to are going for the statue of liberty, printing press to replaceable parts (to open up some new worker options), or astronomy (and put off war in favor of observatories).

Thoughts, anyone?
 
Another note, since we don't really have any foreign trade routes (except with China, and those aren't very profitable), I think we should switch back to mercantilism. I should've done that, but I didn't. With representation, caste system, and the Sistine Chapel, bonus specialists can become a huge influence.
 
"Given Peter's current level of advancement, I'm kind of tempted to rush for cavs, and start a small war with him before he gets to cossacks."

I like this plan. I like it a lot.

Mercantilism is also a good idea.

That's the way to go, I say. Get cavs, keep teching, and take what we can from Peter before he catches up. We might even be able to take him clear out.

-Jester
 
1550 AD (0) - Up research to 90%, set to Military Tradition (due in 4). Since we revolted to representation and free religion last turn, I can't actually revolt to mercantilism yet. Things seem to be humming along nicely, but we no longer have boats to defend our fishermen. Unfortunately, we're six turns from being able to produce a caraval in Takedda, and even then it would be fairly uncertain. I think that I'm just going to pull the trigger vs. Asoka sooner rather than later.

1555 AD (1) - The game says that the Malinese empire now holds 10 million souls! That certainly must be a full jar. Troops continue moving into position.

1560 AD (2) - Peter wants to trade furs for copper. I have vague memories of him doing this on my last turn too. The silly man just won't take a hint. Our troops are in place to march on Asoka.
rb2basokafinalwar2fw.jpg

Let's rock and roll!

1565 AD (3) - Timbuktu - Knight > Knight
Kumbi - Caraval > Caraval
Gao - Bank > Barracks
Walata - University > Caraval
We can now see Madras, defended by only a pike and two longbowmen. This is going to be fun!

1570 AD (4) - Military Tradition comes in, research is set to Printing Press (due in 3).
Djenne - Market > Cavalry
Awdawghost - Mustket > Cavalry

1575 AD (5) - We have plundered 15 gold from a village that I didn't give any order to destroy? What the?
Takedda - Harbor > Library
Tadmekka - University > Barracks (then Heroic Epic)
A crossbowman shows up in Madras, but that won't make a difference. I bombard its defense down to 24% (from 60%).

1580 AD (6) - Asoka runs the crossbowman out of Madras to attack a staggling musket. On a hill. That's 6 vs 11.25, our favor. I'm not sure whether that was an act of desperation or spite.
Kumbi - Caraval > Market
Looking closer at the musket that was just attacked, I notice that he wound up in the crossbow's square, rather than staying put. What's up with that?
I bombard Madras the rest of the way down to 0% defense, and sound the attack!
Up first, a city raider 3 mace vs a longbow. Easy kill.
Next up, a city raider 1 mace vs the other longbow. He goes down to 3.4 strength, but wins.
I decide to try to get our medic mace some more experience to get medic 2. He goes down to 3.2 strength, but wins.
Victory is ours!
On the other hand, taking Madras dropped our income 10 gold. Ouchie!

1585 AD (7) - Printing Press comes in, research is set to Replaceable Parts (due in 3).
Niani - bank > courthouse
Our troops start healing in Madras. We'll be ready to move out again in 3 turns.

1590 AD (8) - Timbuktu - Cav > Cav
Nothing much happens

1595 AD (9) - Bombay - Forge > Library

1600 AD (10) - Replaceable Parts comes in, research is tentatively set to Chemistry.
Pytheas (great merchant) is born in Niani.
All troops in Madras are healed, except for one maceman who lied to me. (Seriously, they all said 3 turns or less.) I start moving in.
I also order up a round of lumbermills where I feel they could be useful (I'm thinking more once we have biology than in the immediate future).

Aftermath - My apologies, I got here, then immediately realized that I hadn't swapped to mercantilism. As long as we're running representation, I think we're probably going to want to do that. Like I said, my research choice was very tentative. I was thinking of going for railroads to boost our mine output, but the statue of liberty is still wide open if we want it. We could also go for physics (free great scientist) or biology (more food -- I might wait on this one until we're done beating up Peter so as to not run into happiness problems). If possible, we should also try to arrange for a caraval to ferry our great merchant and a couple jewish missionaries over to Mao's land (the missionaries being for a little income, and just in case we ever change our religion from free back to organized).

Now, for some screenshots. Here's our continent.


Here's the other continent.


Finally, here's the save. Happy hunting, Jester!
 
Settling a city out there didn't seem like a very good idea while the war was going on. I moved him back to Timbuktu, but it's probably time to move him back now that Asoka will only be around a few more turns.
 
Jester’s Fifth Turn

(0) 1600 AD: I take a look around, and notice a couple things. First, we don’t have either Oxford or Wall Street in Timbuktu. We should get on that. Second, we’re way in the lead in terms of technology. Peter should fall quickly. Third, our tech options look very nice. I’m going to finish chemistry, and go for physics or railroads, haven’t decided yet. The SoL is in no danger of finishing for the AIs, but we should guard against that happening. For now, though, we don’t have the production to finish it in a reasonable span of time. Fourth, I notice that a lot of our cities have unhappiness. I add on 10% luxury tax, which brings us up to +11 gold per turn, and cuts our research down some, but not a lot. Fifth, we’re not mercantilist, so I switch us over. I’m not actually sure that was the best idea, as it hurt both our income and our research, but it increased our production by giving us free engineers, and we’re certainly getting more Great Person Points. It might all come out in the wash.

(1) 1605: Djenne finishes cavalry, starts another cavalry. Gao finishes barracks, starts cavalry. Walata finishes caravel, starts courthouse. Delhi finishes granary, starts a library. Hilariously, the AI then recommends that I build a library there next. Uh… sure. I’ll do that. :rolleyes: I move our troops towards Bangalore. It looks like game over for Asoka!

(2) 1610: Timbuktu finishes cavalry, begins Oxford university. Awdaghost finishes cavalry, stays on cavalry. Tekedda finishes library, switches to barracks. Madras starts granary. I attack an Indian maceman in the field with our cavalry, and, at totally staggering odds against, the maceman forces the cavalry to retreat, and remains at half health! What are the odds of that, something like 1 in 400? Yikes. Our macemen clean up the mess, though, and the Indians lose a mace and a chariot. Our main force advances up to the very gates of Bangalore, squaring off against two longbows, a pike, and a catapult. Should be a pushover. However, I notice our triple-upgraded city raider maceman is still back in Madras! Well, that won’t do at all, so I send him up to join the main force. Somehow, I’m not afraid of sneak attacks from Asoka anymore. On the fishing front, Whales are now hooked up. Our great merchant, Pytheas, boards his caravel, and sets sail for Beijing. We could have gotten some missionaries on there, but I didn’t think it was worth waiting for.

(3) 1615: Chemistry comes in, and I switch to steam power, tentatively. I want to be the first to Physics, so I’m going to see if I can trade anyone for astronomy. If not we’ll research scientific method first, and go from there. Madras has an Indian revolt, which is not pleasant, but at least we can feel safe that those won’t go on for much longer. ;) Bangalore is bombarded down to 24%.

(4) 1620: Two workers sent to mine Iron died from an indian catapult! Sorry, that was totally my fault, I didn’t see any way for them to be under threat. Apparently, I was wrong. Well, the Indians will pay, I’ll see to that. Niani finishes courthouse, builds cavalry. Bombay finishes library, starts barracks. I bombard Bangalore down to 0%, and kill a longbowman. However, I hold back from attacking this turn, and will wait for our troops to arrive next turn, just to be safe. No point in losing units when we’ll be fighting Peter next. Our caravel finds Roosevelt’s island, to the deep south. Our workers are mostly now employed building lumber mills.

(5) 1625: Asoka prays for his life, but he just doesn’t understand. There can be no peace for Asoka. Kumbi Salesh goes from a market to a cavalry. Bangalore falls to our troops, wiping Asoka off the map! Victory for the Malinese! Not content to rest on my laurels, I take stock of our foreign situation: Roosevelt is willing to trade incense for corn. Given our superabundance, I make the trade, and turn down our culture to 0%.

(6) 1630: Tadmekka finishes the Heroic Epic, switches to cavalry. Tekedda finishes its barracks, and starts on a cavalry. Noticing that we’re now building almost exclusively military units, I switch us to theocracy and vassalage, with Judaism as our religion. I have to turn our science back down to 80%, but this means we’re making 28 gold per turn. We’ll switch out of war mode once we have a dozen cavalry or so, but for now, the free experience is too good to pass up. Plus, it reactivates the Spiral Minaret, which was fallow up until now.

(7) 1635: Peter declares war on us! Wow. I wasn’t quite expecting that. Well, at least we’re getting well prepared! Cavalry ought to give us the edge, but it’ll be touch and go for a little while. Steam power comes in. I set our research to assembly line, for two reasons. One, it gets us infantry, which is very nice. Two, it doesn’t negate Chichen Itza, like rifling does. It also happens to open up some of the nicest city improvements in the game, factories, for when we’re done making cavalry. Djenne finishes another cavalry, and keeps building them. Gao finishes cavalry, keeps building them. Delhi finishes library, builds a Jewish Temple. Peter’s forces move into the absolute worst (for him) or best (for us) position they could, right in range of our existing cavalry. I send out our cavalry, who kill two knights and a crossbowman without difficulty. I also note that the Russians only have one source of Iron, so I’m going to send a cavalry up to disconnect it.

(8) 1640: Roosevelt offers sheep for gold. We’re not having any health problems, and relations with him are irreparably damaged already, so I decline. Awadhagost finishes cavalry, keeps building cavalry. Bombay builds a barracks, switches to cavalry. Blaise Pascal pops in Timbuktu, another great engineer! I’d wager we could get something nice out of that. :lol: Maybe he’s the one to help grab the SoL? I send one cavalry to kill a longbow at yakutsk, which we can take without difficulty.

(9) 1645: Walata finishes a courthouse, switches to market. Niani finishes cavalry, switches to colosseum. Yakutsk falls to our cavalry. Our main force is healing at Kumbi Salesh, and waiting for our catapults to advance.

(10) 1650: Tadmekka finishes cavalry, switches to theatre. Once that’s done, it should build infantry. Delhi finishes a Jewish Temple, starts on a bank. Our cavalry disconnects Iron from Peter.

So, that’s that. We’re doing well on pretty much every front. In 4 or 5 turns, we can switch off theocracy and vassalage. We could go back to free religion, or we could use organized religion to speed up infrastructure builds. We’ll definitely need to convert our new conquests to the true faith, though. Regardless, some infrastructure will be a priority for the second half of the next 10 turns, and probably the turn beyond that.

Asoka is gone, we’re at war with Peter, and we’ll have over a dozen cavalry within a couple turns. Our catapults are almost at the front lines, and I suggest we move as fast as possible to take the core of Peter’s empire. Some units will need to be trained to garrison our cities, but for now, I think cavalry is the more useful investment, since they have nothing that can stand against it. For technology, I suggest going for democracy next, then using our engineer to get the SoL, then going for our free scientist with physics.

So, there we are! I think this game is pretty much won, but there’s still plenty of fun to be had crushing our enemies under our boot.

Good luck, Methos, not that you’ll need it, with our army of Cavalry.

-Jester

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB2b_AD-1650.Civ4SavedGame
 
Back
Top Bottom