RBC16 - Sleeveless

No, I don't. Rather than going and downloading right this second, can you just post the save for me, as I'm in the middle of about three things right now?

Very odd, I never had a problem using the built in XP agent before.....
 
The built-in XP agent only works with others who use the built-in XP agent. More or less.

Time to graduate to WinZip or something else less proprietary. Complaining that the Microsoft version OUGHT to work (when it doesn't) and expecting others to revert to it so you can keep using it... Well, that's not the path I would choose. :) Then again, I also gave up on Internet Explorer this year, too, because the thing is a walking security sieve that enables scumware makers of all types to infest my computer ad nauseum! :gripe:


- Sirian
 
Well, I have DL'ed Winzip and am playing now.

Still not sure how this:
can you just post the save for me, as I'm in the middle of about three things right now?
turned into this though:
and expecting others to revert to it so you can keep using it
Don't see any request for people to change their ways...:confused:

Sorry for the mistake, Bugs. :)
 
IHT – OK, let’s see … couple more swords and cats, right? MM looks dandy.

70 ad (1) – Canterbury sword -> sword. Big surprise, we’re the least powerful nation according to Thucydides.

IT – French complete SoZ.

90 ad (2) – Some deal ends our income jumps about 8 gpt.

110 ad (3) – London sword -> sword. Upgrade our curragh as it returns to port. Theo will trade us Eng or Theo for cash and gpt, but no dice on Feud, even though we only have 7 turns left. Stupid ai overvaluing govt techs. And that’s at fifth, no less! I was gonna buy Theology and try to save the 7 turns research, but doesn’t seem worth it now.

IT – Aztecs complete STAofW. Byz cascade to KT, Leos, and finish Sistine. China cascades and finishes KT.

130 ad (4) – And a turn after Feudalism, China acquires Engineering. I buy Theology from Byz for 790g and 18 gpt. Carthage will take 3gpt less, but since they’re in the crosshairs….

150 ad (5) – London sword -> sword. Nottingham library -> cat. Canterbury sword -> library. :mad: China is obviously getting some splendid discounts, now they have Theology. Three techs in three turns, and no serious money has changed hands! So much for my trade.

170 ad (6) – We lose our two luxes from the Aztecs. Frankly, I don’t know how we got them in the first place, so they’ll stay gone. Have to hire a clown in Nottingham, though that makes the city starve for now.

190 ad (7) – Not much here, deal with Carthage ends in a turn.

210 ad (8) – London sword -> cat. Deal with Carthage is officially over, but I hate doing something major like declaring at the end of my turns, so I’ll leave it for the next player.

230 ad (9) – Nottingham cat -> spear. France gets Eng. She has nothing else to trade, so I take the straight up swap while I can.

250 ad (10) – Feudalism comes in. I set it to PP, but that can be changed w/o penalty as the team desires.

Recap: Well, we have 7 swords, 2 archers, 3 cats ready, and a treb due next turn. With the exception of one cat, all of those units are unmoved. Aztecs, Byz, and Carthage are all up Inv and Chiv. China has Chiv. We’re on par with France, up Theo and Feud on India, and way ahead of Korea. My trade almost blew up on me, but ended up working out OK, though our economy is hurting under the weight of all these units without that gpt.

>>>SAVE<<<
 
I would say we better use our troops while they are there. no sense in them eating gpt without producing something for us in return. :evil:
 
I think Sesn stayed up too late last night watching the Sox on West Coast time. :D
 
*knock* *knock*
 
Preturn: switch Coventry from granary to temple. Upgrade two swords.

IBT Carthage builds Leo.

(1)260AD: Switch Newcastle to a spear to better protect the island losing 4 shields.

(2)270AD: Education shows up.

(3)280AD: Ask Carthage to leave and it agrees.

(4)290AD: Cancel lux deal with Carthage, and trade to China for incense+50g.

(5)300AD: I declare on Carthage and position all troops next to Cadiz. We don't have enough units for two cities so I go for the lux city. We have 3 cats, 4 MDIs, 2 swords and 2 archers.

IBT Hastings riots due to the cut trade route but we'll fix it next turn.

(6)310AD:

3 cats takes off 2hp from 2 NMs.
Vet MDI 3/2 kills NM and promotes.
Vet MDI 4/1 loses to NM.
Vet MDI 0/1 kills NM and we capture Cardiz.

Byzantines has Printing Press.

(7)320AD: Spices to Byzantines for silks+2gpt. Lux still at 10 but fire some clowns.

IBT lose MDI to longbow.

(8)330AD:

IBT Carthage lands a reg archer and NM next to Cardiz. It starts Copernicus.

(9)340AD:

3 cats take off 1hp from NM.
Vet MDI 3/3 kills NM.
Vet MDI 2/2 kills NM.
Vet MDI 3/4 kills longbow.
Vet MDI 0/3 kills longbow and we capture Cita.

We take care of the landing without loss.

(10)350AD:

Bombard the pillaging NM. Fortify some archers to defend our tiles.

Let's capture the remaining two towns and try to get Education as concession. We are behind in tech now.
 
IT 350AD: I leave the units where they are, for now. I considered attacking the wounded NM in our territory but decided not to do it. I really have to wonder what's been going on with these fishing villages, though. The ideal long term build order for a fishing village is granary, harbor, temple, aqueduct, market, in that order. Fishing villages either run high food or high shields, never both. High shields means two forests or mined hills and break even food. Well, a fishing village at size two can man two forests, and so it should, until it has a granary. Anything else is bad news for the long term, as precious shields are just pouring down the drain if running high food WITHOUT a granary in place. I had put what fishing villages we had on granaries, but those orders were overruled. So it goes.

Everything else seems to be in order. I change a build or two, and put some cities to higher shields, and off we go.

360AD: The NM attacks a fortified archer and wins, losing 1 hp. We retaliate with our elite archer and kill it.

370AD: Two longbows are cut down. One sword lost a hp.

380AD: Losing one MDI, I capture Rusaddir. I check the leverage on F4... Hmm. Not only won't he give us Education, but we can't even get Chivalry yet, and that's on the cheap. Almost everyone except us owns it. Not a good sign. I check the city situation. We can get the last city on our continent for free, plus a full world map, plus a far off colony in the south, plus some chump change, for peace. I decide to take the deal.

rbc16-380ad.jpg


I then sell our maps around and pick up some more cash. I then decided to rushbuy the rest of our temple down at Newcastle to get its culture going in this millenium. Time to shift our economy back to infrastructure. This war is over, and we've secured all of the former Carthaginian locations on our continent.

390AD: Found Oxford on north coast. Buy Education from China @5th for 51gpt and 151 cash.

400AD: Obtained Invention from France for Education and change. Signed RoP with Korea, paying them pennies in cash, so we can retrieve our worker from Newcastle. Galley now in Korean waters.

410AD: Traded Education to Ghandi for Chivalry. This ends our tech trading run, as only the Koreans still lack all techs we know, and they are too far behind, I think, to be useful in this department for some time to come. Not good news, other civs are still further ahead: Gunpowder, Astronomy, some have Navigation too.

420AD: When the borders expanded at Warwick, the hot popped and out came hostiles. :eek: Our spear left the town to attack the nearest warriors, winning handily. Our workers from the hill were recalled to safety. China has workers in danger, too. Korea made it out of the ancient age on this turn. They got Engineering as their free tech.

rbc16-420ad.jpg


430AD: Upgraded our trade agreement with the Aztecs, exchanging sale of spices for 5gpt for dyes plus 2gpt. Fired the entertainer in London.

450AD: Left an MDI active, so next player can decide what to do about remaining barbarian warrior. Our towns are finally in decent shape, though many fishing villages have gotten off to a slow start. China owns one village on our land mass, but it's of no threat, and may even flip to us, though probably not, considering our anemic culture. Remember, as a commercial civ, we benefit markedly from getting cities to size 7, so please don't neglect the fishing villages. Get them a granary, a harbor, a courthouse if applicable... an aqueduct, and get them to size 7. Don't let them grow much until they have both the harbor and the granary, or their long term development will be slowed!

rbc16-450ad.jpg


There's not much gain left for us with warfare. The AIs are all up to gunpowder, so we achieved our goal of owning our own continent, and that's about it. The colony in the deep south looks pretty sad, but I have a warrior being built down there. Change to spear if you think it's OK to leave it undefended an extra ten turns. MAYBE it should become the location of a scientist, as I'm not sure it won't starve if allowed to grow to size 2.


Sleeveless - 450AD


- Sirian
 
I suppose there's a small chance of taking over Korea if we hurry. Not sure if that's wise, but it should be considered. If not that, then full tilt toward building our economy, which is what I left us on. Warwick seems to be on high food in the screenshot. I must have forgotten to fix it after borders expanded. (Can you imagine how cool it would be if the governor could handle stuff like that? Whew. I'd be really happy to be doing less micro!)

If we go peaceful, FP belongs at Cadiz. If we attack Korea and succeed, it belongs down there. We need to decide quickly, and my turn has passed, so I will leave the choices up to current and future leaders of England. :cooool:


- Sirian
 
I see it, and will try to grab it later tonight.

Hopefully I can do some spreadsheeting on the harbor or granary first. I am not certain which way is more efficient. ( Or searching. I am fairly confident someone has done an in dept analysis somewhere on this board. )

Grimjack
 
I have done some fast simulations on fishing villages, but they are too simple to reflect very well. I have not taken into account building upkeep, happiness requirements. Also, if whipping is taken into consideration, I will admit, that building granary before harbor is a Good Thing. Also, I have assumed we have enough water tiles within our nine, and this is not necessarily true until cultural expansion. So, I admit I was wrong to veto the granary. My apologies.

I ran a hundred turns,
case 1: Granary->Harbor at max shields, Temple at max food, Aqueduct max shields, Market Max shields

Case 2: Harbor at max shields, Aqueduct at max food until size 6, max shields then. Temple at max food until size 7, max shields then, Granary max shields, market max shields.

At turn 100, case 1 have acucmulated 118 shields towards market, and 860 gold.
case 2 have 5 shields towards market and 918 gold.

So, is 23 turns of market enhanced income worth more than 58 gold and the extra building upkeep of case 1 ?

It is close enough to say that your civs happiness may be the deciding factor.

If there is any interest in the complete sim, I may post in the tech forum. Growing beyond size 7, you definitely want a granary.
Grimjack
 
I think attacking Korea depends on the strength of our army. If we need to spend 20-30 turns preparing for war, that is too long, and we should let Korea be. If we can land a strong force at Inch'on like MacArthur within the next ten turns let's go for it.
 
Dizzy Lizzy the growth years.

Have to decide if I want to grow by conquest or building. There sure are lots of stuff to build.
Looking through our available forces, I see we can field about two medievals and half a dozen artillery.
If it had been someone on the same continent, I would possibly have gone to war, but as an invasion force, it lacks units.
We could take one city, and no more, so I will use our meagre income trying to get a feasible income for researching.

I see if I can promote our Medieval against the barbarian inside the chinese borders. ( I have never seen a barbarian warrior manage to defeat a n AI spear defender. ) I move our scientist to the southern colony, as I believe it will indeed starve if it reaches size 2. ( because at size 2, it will need a specialist, and with a specialist it will only get three food. )

I will rush the granary in Cadiz asap, and then start the FP.

Trade situation is dismal. Only thing we can trade is our only iron. That is not sufficient for Banking, which is a tech we might be able to sell ourselves. We might get Astronomy, and then Printing press next turn, but it is doubtful, so I will hold of on any trade, and see what I can do about building a more solid economy.

IBT: French start Copernicus.

460AD, It is tempting to switch our scientist to Musician, as Printing press is universally known, while Music Theory is not, but I deem the likelyhood of netting Music Theory as low, so I do not.

470 Ad Next turn I will be able to rush the granary in Cadiz.

IBT: Canterbury Market->Cathedral ( So you have the option of growing it. ) Saldae Warrior->Temple ( It will forever be corrupted, but nabbing a possible oil by our superior culture on this island might be worth something. ) It could be faster to let it grow to size two, and whip the extra citizen than by letting it accumulate shields. Feel free to overrule this in case my logic is flawed somewhere.

480, Time to bite the bullet. Since we do not build military, we do not need our iron. It is risking our trade rep, but I see no faster way out of our tech hole. I trade iron and 13 gpt to Carthage for Banking. I trade around our world map to get enough gold to rush the granary in Cadiz.

IBT: Cadiz Granary->Forbidden Palace ( It is a 100 turn build, but I will soon have a spare worker that can mine the hill for some extra shields.

490 Banking gets us Astronomy and 19 gold from Joan of the French.

IBT: London Cathedral->Bank,

500 Trade opportunities are shrinking, as most nations are up Printing Press, Navigation and Gunpowder. India are lacking Banking and Astronomy. Banking gets us Gun Powder and 13 gold from the Indians.

IBT: A purple warrior encroaches our city in the south.

510 Getting nervous, I trade 5 gpt and Astronomy for Printing Press, 21 gold and wines from the Indians. I put our scientist on Music Theory. I suggest you check how fast we can research that when we get our income back, as it feels like it is time to start doing some research soon. Our enormous income right now of 5 gpt is not really enough to support research.
I rush a spearman in the southern colony, seeing as India looks about ready to sneak attack us with a fearsome warrior.

IBT: As expected the Indian Warrior enters our borders. I will see if I can get him to declare now, so I can buy in the chinese and French, whom I fear the most. Aztecs start Magellans as do the Chinese.

520 Hmm, we have a RoP with India, and I cannot demand they leave. I can just hope they do not buy in anyone during the next IBT. Chemistry and Democracy are known by the leaders in tech. Sulcis will starve, as it needs a specialist when we drop the lux tax. I will not spend 13 gpt to support them. The chinese colony on our island wins the culture war, and expands its borders. You might want to build a library in Warwick to let it keep its advantage.

IBT: I will have to pay Byzantine 11 gold for the luxury instead of getting 2 gpt from them. I do renew the lux deal though. India does NOT declare. Weird.

530 Cadiz is 45 % corrupt. Courthouse will take 24 turns, and Forbidden Palace 64 turns at present speed. I do not know if we will end up with the forbidden palace faster if we build the courthouse first, but I suspect it will be close, so I switch to courthouse. ( Courthouse can be rushed, and then we definitely will build the Palace faster. )

IBT: This time it is a Korean sword approaching our southern colony. Not much I can or want to do about it now though.

540

IBT: The Aztec swordsman moves towards the french colonies instead after seeing our fearsome spearmen.

550 Nottingham is maximized for gold, while still getting Aqueduct in one. London is at size 12, and there are tiles that can be mined. I managed to miss this, so lost us two worker turns. We will be able to make 20 spt, so it could be fairly significant to do this.
I suggest we save money to rush the courthouse in Cadiz, so we can start building the Forbidden Palace there ASAP.
There are cities better placed that Cadiz, but Cadiz is the only one able to grow to a decent size and get at least more than a few shields.
I consider Russadir as a candidate too, as the two gold mines could be worth a lot to be able to work without corruption, but Russadir has longer to go before it can start to build.

Grimjack
 
Sounds good. Nice work on keeping us up in tech. All these fishing villages, plus the need to build all those units to capture our own lands... We're behind where I expected to be when I conceived the scenario, so no surprise that we have yet to achieve anything on the self-research front. Our economy is just too sad as yet. We will need libraries, and then also need our gpt payments to expire and NOT to renew them with a new tech buy, in order to start our own research. I figured to be doing that "sometimes" by now, but we're just not ready yet, so don't push too hard, guys. Wait for us to get libraries going and a uni or two, and then we need to hit the books for at least one tech. :) The question then will be, do we research something most civs know, or try for something nobody knows? The former will probably need to be the case at first, but the latter may be possible in the Industrial age.


- Sirian
 
I've got it. I will be about 24 hours for a turn around.
 
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