ChrTh
Happy Yule!
The real question is, will there be a RBC4a-r for the Senguku (sp?) scenario?
RBC3c - Ancient Mediterranean Mayhem - Roma
- Thread starter Griselda
- Start date
The real question is, will there be a RBC4a-r for the Senguku (sp?) scenario?
If 6thGen hasn't played yet, I figure the team should weigh in a few ideas:
What should our fallback be if we don't get the Temple of Artemis? The Oracle? Hadrian's Wall would be a decent consolation prize, but will require us to acquire Construction prior to Artemis finishes. We could also use the GL for an army and have the Heroic Epic as a fallback.
This brings up what to research next. Military Training for Heavy Cavs seems logical, but starting on Construction is also a possibility (primarily to CYA with Artemis/Hadrians). We should be able to finish another tech before our GA ends.
Any thoughts on what the next leader should go to? Since the FP is broken, how about a mixed Legion/Pike army to pillage the snot out of the Carthaginian core? It may take us a while to get to North Africa, might as well destroy their economy in the meantime.
What should our fallback be if we don't get the Temple of Artemis? The Oracle? Hadrian's Wall would be a decent consolation prize, but will require us to acquire Construction prior to Artemis finishes. We could also use the GL for an army and have the Heroic Epic as a fallback.
This brings up what to research next. Military Training for Heavy Cavs seems logical, but starting on Construction is also a possibility (primarily to CYA with Artemis/Hadrians). We should be able to finish another tech before our GA ends.
Any thoughts on what the next leader should go to? Since the FP is broken, how about a mixed Legion/Pike army to pillage the snot out of the Carthaginian core? It may take us a while to get to North Africa, might as well destroy their economy in the meantime.
I got C&C 
As I stated, Mil. techs should be our priority.
If Heavy Cav. is a fast offensive unit, I agree with T_McC, this one next.
With legions availabel, I see no reasons to use garrisons in armies, let's
use legions with the huge offensive capability.
As I stated, Mil. techs should be our priority.
If Heavy Cav. is a fast offensive unit, I agree with T_McC, this one next.
With legions availabel, I see no reasons to use garrisons in armies, let's
use legions with the huge offensive capability.
6thGenTexan
King
I've had a chance to look at the game and have a few observations.
Our Legion is THE UNIT in this game. Imaging a guerilla with adn added attack and HP running around in the ancient age. Granted, four techs away and a cost of 90 shields, we will not be building many. What we will have is a lot of Legion I and II's to upgrade. All we need to do is keep them alive. The Heavy Calvary will be healpful in zone defense and to chase down retreating War Elephants.
I believe construction should be our next tech. Our victory condition is based on land and population. Getting the cities up to 12 will help in our victory condition and increased sheild production. Now that I'm writing, I cannot remember for sure but I think that Military Training is required for Carthage's War Elephants. I see no need to make it any cheaper for them to research.
On the wonder cascade, if it happens on my turns, I'll take what ever is available. I prefer the Oracle since it will benefit more than one city. Construction will not show up on my turns. Worst case is an overpriced Heroic Epic. There is an eleven turn differnece between the HE and the ToA.
Regarding the Greeks, leave them alone. At least leave them alone for now. They are locked in the war with the Persians who are leading in land and population. Anything to help them out would be good for us until we pass the Persians.
Since this is a short game, anthing to save a turn is helpful. At the start of my turns we have 10% lux tax with 3 specialists. One town needs the clown. The other two are taxmen. Changing these to scientists drop our "turns to tech" from 6 to 5. THis is something we all need to watch.
I will probably not play until Thursday afternoon. Ahy other thoughts?
6gntxn
Our Legion is THE UNIT in this game. Imaging a guerilla with adn added attack and HP running around in the ancient age. Granted, four techs away and a cost of 90 shields, we will not be building many. What we will have is a lot of Legion I and II's to upgrade. All we need to do is keep them alive. The Heavy Calvary will be healpful in zone defense and to chase down retreating War Elephants.
I believe construction should be our next tech. Our victory condition is based on land and population. Getting the cities up to 12 will help in our victory condition and increased sheild production. Now that I'm writing, I cannot remember for sure but I think that Military Training is required for Carthage's War Elephants. I see no need to make it any cheaper for them to research.
On the wonder cascade, if it happens on my turns, I'll take what ever is available. I prefer the Oracle since it will benefit more than one city. Construction will not show up on my turns. Worst case is an overpriced Heroic Epic. There is an eleven turn differnece between the HE and the ToA.
Regarding the Greeks, leave them alone. At least leave them alone for now. They are locked in the war with the Persians who are leading in land and population. Anything to help them out would be good for us until we pass the Persians.
Since this is a short game, anthing to save a turn is helpful. At the start of my turns we have 10% lux tax with 3 specialists. One town needs the clown. The other two are taxmen. Changing these to scientists drop our "turns to tech" from 6 to 5. THis is something we all need to watch.
I will probably not play until Thursday afternoon. Ahy other thoughts?
6gntxn
On the subject of techs:
The War elephant is enabled by Tactics, so Carthage will have those soon. Construction may be a pressing need (we currently have 5 cities that need aqueducts, and 6 that don't), as we may have to build some Colosseums to keep up the happies. That also gets us within 1 tech of Engineering, which will be real nice with all the rivers on this map. My only concern is that we can probably trade Military Training for Construction, but I'm not sure the reverse is true. (I think that since all civs had the opportunity to research Construction from the first turn, at least one will have.) Either way it will work out fine, we need both techs and will get them both soon enough.
My point with the mixed army was this: If the primary intent of the army was to pillage, hence being attacked rather than attacking, I wouldn't want to tie up more than 1 Legion in that role. Garrisons have the same defense as a Legion I, and are much cheaper to build. Disadvantage is that the army would have less hit points with vet Garrisons vs. vet Legion I's. Said army would still be effective attacking once a turn, as the Legion would get at least 5 (and maybe 6) hit points to work with. But the bottom line is that if we're going to form another army, might as well go bonk some heads with it, rather than tie up that many resources just to be spiteful to Carthage.
The War elephant is enabled by Tactics, so Carthage will have those soon. Construction may be a pressing need (we currently have 5 cities that need aqueducts, and 6 that don't), as we may have to build some Colosseums to keep up the happies. That also gets us within 1 tech of Engineering, which will be real nice with all the rivers on this map. My only concern is that we can probably trade Military Training for Construction, but I'm not sure the reverse is true. (I think that since all civs had the opportunity to research Construction from the first turn, at least one will have.) Either way it will work out fine, we need both techs and will get them both soon enough.
My point with the mixed army was this: If the primary intent of the army was to pillage, hence being attacked rather than attacking, I wouldn't want to tie up more than 1 Legion in that role. Garrisons have the same defense as a Legion I, and are much cheaper to build. Disadvantage is that the army would have less hit points with vet Garrisons vs. vet Legion I's. Said army would still be effective attacking once a turn, as the Legion would get at least 5 (and maybe 6) hit points to work with. But the bottom line is that if we're going to form another army, might as well go bonk some heads with it, rather than tie up that many resources just to be spiteful to Carthage.
6thGenTexan
King
MM to shave a turn off a couple of items. Drop lux to 10% increase science and the three specialists will not speed up production if tax was at 20%.
295BC-1 Pisae Legion-->Legion Croton garrison-->harbor Aquileia garrison-->barrack Canusium worker every 2 turns. Build an army in Neapolis. I'll go with the 2 garrisons and a legionary to pillage North Africa. Hadrian shows up by killing an archer outside of Syracuse. Heads to Messana to form an army. I'll use this army to pillage and the one in Neopolis to conquer. Pick up another 37 with some map tranding.
IBT Macedonia builds the Mausoleum of Mausollos in Athens.
290BC-2 The Goths show up as the last civ.
IBT Egypt has joined Persia against Macedon.
285BC-3 Neapolis, Ancona Legion-->Legion Cansium worker. Capture Marsala and a worker.
IBT The Celts have joined Persia against Macedon. Goths have joined Egypt verses Macedon. The Colossus has been completed in the Macedonian city of Byzantium.
280BC-4 Padua citizen-->garrison Tarentum Legion-->Legion Croton garrison-->garrison garrison-->garrison Genua barrack-->garrison Confinium barrack-->worker Macedon now has Monarchy. We will trade Tactics next turn for it.
Persia and Carthage have joined forces against us. We have lost our Dyes. Scythia declares war on Macedon. Neopolis riots and I make sure no one else does.
275BC-5 Canusium's worker. Well, now everyone but Egypt has Tactics. I take ther 10GPT and 65g. Pick up another 221g selling maps. Construction in 17 turns at -6GPT. I'm not going to buy Monarchy for 1600g. We do not need it now and I do not think it is worth swiching to.
IBT The Macidonians build The Oracle in Miletus.
270BC-6 Padua garrison-->garrison Legion upgrades to II are 60g. I upgrade 3 this turn. Capture Aleria. Moving a citizen to get some spices from near the Celts.
265BC-7 Pisae Legion-->Legion Croton Legion-->garrison Canusium's worker. Aquileia barrack--Granary Confinium worker-->garrison Upgrade 7 Legions. Segusio founded to get us some spices. Unfortunately the road created did not cover the spices. Greece is holding Monarchy and Construction. Buy construction and WM for 420g. I get 145g back for map trades. Switch Ancona, Croton and Tarentum to Aqueducts. Pisae, Padua and Neapolis to Colosseums. Start working on Engineering thinking Macedon will go for Tactics. 25 Turns at -2GPT.
Messana riots. I looked at the faces wrong. The Macedonians complete the Great Lighthouse in Cyzicus.
260AD-8 Genua garrison-->granary Upgrdae 2 more Legions.
255BC-9 Ancona Aqueduct-->legion Canusium's worker.
250BC-10 Land an army in Africa. Capture Olbia. Upgrade another Legion.
Messed up Canusiums MM. It needs to work the 2 wheat and the forrest to get a worker/growth every 2 turns. Switch this back next turn. I landed the army near Leptis Magna to keep the Carthaginians to our west as we conquer. The pillage army is in the boat out of Marsala. It can land near Carthago and start working next turn. The third army just left Aleria and is heading south. It can attact Caralis or let the Legions in Olbia take care of that island. Our fourth galley is heading south to help ferry troops from Sicily to Africa.
The three Carthaginian galleys near Syracuse have been there a couple of turns.
I have Legions running a blockade near Genua. Carthage finally sent some troops towards us.
Five turns to The Temple of Aremis. Engineering in 18 at 50% @ +21GPT. Lux at 20% but our spices are getting to Italy through Celtic territory. If they get upity, we will take a happiness hit.
Carthage whipped the cities on Sicily so they are extra unhappy.
The Game
6gntxn
295BC-1 Pisae Legion-->Legion Croton garrison-->harbor Aquileia garrison-->barrack Canusium worker every 2 turns. Build an army in Neapolis. I'll go with the 2 garrisons and a legionary to pillage North Africa. Hadrian shows up by killing an archer outside of Syracuse. Heads to Messana to form an army. I'll use this army to pillage and the one in Neopolis to conquer. Pick up another 37 with some map tranding.
IBT Macedonia builds the Mausoleum of Mausollos in Athens.
290BC-2 The Goths show up as the last civ.
IBT Egypt has joined Persia against Macedon.
285BC-3 Neapolis, Ancona Legion-->Legion Cansium worker. Capture Marsala and a worker.
IBT The Celts have joined Persia against Macedon. Goths have joined Egypt verses Macedon. The Colossus has been completed in the Macedonian city of Byzantium.
280BC-4 Padua citizen-->garrison Tarentum Legion-->Legion Croton garrison-->garrison garrison-->garrison Genua barrack-->garrison Confinium barrack-->worker Macedon now has Monarchy. We will trade Tactics next turn for it.
Persia and Carthage have joined forces against us. We have lost our Dyes. Scythia declares war on Macedon. Neopolis riots and I make sure no one else does.
275BC-5 Canusium's worker. Well, now everyone but Egypt has Tactics. I take ther 10GPT and 65g. Pick up another 221g selling maps. Construction in 17 turns at -6GPT. I'm not going to buy Monarchy for 1600g. We do not need it now and I do not think it is worth swiching to.
IBT The Macidonians build The Oracle in Miletus.
270BC-6 Padua garrison-->garrison Legion upgrades to II are 60g. I upgrade 3 this turn. Capture Aleria. Moving a citizen to get some spices from near the Celts.
265BC-7 Pisae Legion-->Legion Croton Legion-->garrison Canusium's worker. Aquileia barrack--Granary Confinium worker-->garrison Upgrade 7 Legions. Segusio founded to get us some spices. Unfortunately the road created did not cover the spices. Greece is holding Monarchy and Construction. Buy construction and WM for 420g. I get 145g back for map trades. Switch Ancona, Croton and Tarentum to Aqueducts. Pisae, Padua and Neapolis to Colosseums. Start working on Engineering thinking Macedon will go for Tactics. 25 Turns at -2GPT.
Messana riots. I looked at the faces wrong. The Macedonians complete the Great Lighthouse in Cyzicus.
260AD-8 Genua garrison-->granary Upgrdae 2 more Legions.
255BC-9 Ancona Aqueduct-->legion Canusium's worker.
250BC-10 Land an army in Africa. Capture Olbia. Upgrade another Legion.
Messed up Canusiums MM. It needs to work the 2 wheat and the forrest to get a worker/growth every 2 turns. Switch this back next turn. I landed the army near Leptis Magna to keep the Carthaginians to our west as we conquer. The pillage army is in the boat out of Marsala. It can land near Carthago and start working next turn. The third army just left Aleria and is heading south. It can attact Caralis or let the Legions in Olbia take care of that island. Our fourth galley is heading south to help ferry troops from Sicily to Africa.
The three Carthaginian galleys near Syracuse have been there a couple of turns.
I have Legions running a blockade near Genua. Carthage finally sent some troops towards us.
Five turns to The Temple of Aremis. Engineering in 18 at 50% @ +21GPT. Lux at 20% but our spices are getting to Italy through Celtic territory. If they get upity, we will take a happiness hit.
Carthage whipped the cities on Sicily so they are extra unhappy.
The Game
6gntxn
Just in case Belisar hasn't played yet (and to keep this thread on the first page!) ...
Belisar is right, we are making terrific progress on the Mediterranean Islands. 6thGen left Carthage with only 1 city remaining, and a Legion Army in striking distance. Who's the next victim after that? It seems the Celts are the closest, and without Iron may not be that hard to smack around. They have at least 5 Iron sources in their territory, so our window may be fairly narrow until they get Gallics. Of course Legion II's are quite a bit tougher than Gallics anyway. Alternatively, we could sign an ROP with the Celts, and try to kick Carthage out of Spain.
[Edit: I didn't even note the Army already in Africa. I guess an ROP/MA (separately) with the Celts against Carthage may be a neat trick to activate Hannibal's dental plan]
If we wanted a couple of more easy settlements, there are two islands SE of Croton where we could settle on a hill and only require three units between them to run shore blockades. The two cities would overlap slightly, but after the 1st border expansion would have some good tiles. I can never figure out the flip formula, but there would only be 1 tile of overlap with a Macedonian city.
Final thought: If we do go to war with the Celts, it may be important to obtain Lutetia (and anything else they build in the British Isles) as part of the peace consession. The Isles would seem to be real easy pickings for relaxed settling to reach the Domination limits. Or is there someone else in this scenario?
Belisar is right, we are making terrific progress on the Mediterranean Islands. 6thGen left Carthage with only 1 city remaining, and a Legion Army in striking distance. Who's the next victim after that? It seems the Celts are the closest, and without Iron may not be that hard to smack around. They have at least 5 Iron sources in their territory, so our window may be fairly narrow until they get Gallics. Of course Legion II's are quite a bit tougher than Gallics anyway. Alternatively, we could sign an ROP with the Celts, and try to kick Carthage out of Spain.
[Edit: I didn't even note the Army already in Africa. I guess an ROP/MA (separately) with the Celts against Carthage may be a neat trick to activate Hannibal's dental plan]
If we wanted a couple of more easy settlements, there are two islands SE of Croton where we could settle on a hill and only require three units between them to run shore blockades. The two cities would overlap slightly, but after the 1st border expansion would have some good tiles. I can never figure out the flip formula, but there would only be 1 tile of overlap with a Macedonian city.
Final thought: If we do go to war with the Celts, it may be important to obtain Lutetia (and anything else they build in the British Isles) as part of the peace consession. The Isles would seem to be real easy pickings for relaxed settling to reach the Domination limits. Or is there someone else in this scenario?
Preturn: Croton swaped to courthouse, the city gets only 40% of it's shields and
the 6th citiz. is already a specialist.
We have 4 Gothic T-worriors (stats like longbows) near Aquileila, hopefully they don't try something stupid.
Our army is strong against their's but an additional front NE is not what we want.
However, if they enter our territory, we have the first shot and will be able to kill most of them.
I sign a ROP with Alex, the only civ that is not at war against him is Hanni, and I don't want them
to ally against us.
We should have enough money, so science up a notch, Eng. in 16 turns.
IT: Neapolis finishes Colloseum, starts legion.
Canusium worker, MM to get them in 2 turns.
I spot the first Carth. War Elephant, he is injured, interesting.
The Gothic stack moves east and the 3-unit Carth stack heads for Segusio, we have only 1 legion there.
245: Our army attacks Leptis, we defeat 2 defenders by losing only 2 HP.
We capture 2 new slaves at Olbia and land a 16! HP legion army near Caralis.
This is basically a Knight with 16 hitpoints, nice.
Personally, I think Genua should have been founded one tile SW on the wine-hill to better fit in
another city in northern Italy, but I will do this anyway, move settler in position.
I swap Segusio to walls due next turn. Founding at this lux site was a good move by 6thGen but
I think we will have to secure the area sooner or later by taking it to the Celts, only 110 turns
remaining. I do some exploring NE.
I add an archer to the garrison of Pisae, getting the specialist back to work.
IT: The Carths move two additional units near Massila, now they have 5 units (2 NuMes, 1 spear, 1 archer)
They also move an Elephant into Carthago.
240: Alex, the Goths and the Celts got Astronomy.
The Persians would talk, but Xerxes wants cash for peace, I'd say sweet dreams...
Tarentum finishes Aqueduct, start courthouse. Confinium garrison -> garrison.
Segusio walls -> rax
We begin pillaging near Carthago, first the cow tile, then I move on the Iron hill.
Hanni has swords fortified on some tiles, that's the main reason I would have prefered a higher
offensive capability for our army. With the 2-movement, they are simply huge.
We take Caralis from it's 2 spears and now we own all the islands, shouldn't the first Punic War now be over
We get a second spice source in the process.
The attack on Leptis kills another 2 defenders.
I found Mediolanum in northern Italy.
IT: I see a Carth Elephant army near Carthago, but it doesn't attack our pillaging army.
Carth and Egypt sign an alliance agaisnt us, Hanni declares on Alex.
The really bad news: Sparta completes The Temple of Artemis, beating us 2 turns.
Worse, Tyre completes Hadrians Wall in the same IT.
The Scythians establish an emb. in our capital.
Some resistance in Caralis ends, the city riots in the process.
The Carth. ships near Syracuse were not empty, they land 4 units near the town.
235: Swap Rome to HE, a 500-shield Epic.
We just got a excellent demonstration about the subtle differences between Deity and Demigod
difficult level, at Demigod we would have gotten the Temple.
I always thought that this level was completely redundant with its extra settler but it
seems that this 10% difference in cost factor is not negligible.
We finally capture Leptis from its last spear, getting 2 slaves.
Our army continues pillaging around Carthago, this extra-pillaging is nice.
I kill a sword and a NuMe at Syracuse, 2 archers left.
I buy Astronomy from the Scythias for 448 gold, this connects our new conquests in Africa with the mainland.
I get their WM in the process, there is a silk source east which would be nice.
Sell the new WM to Brennus for 108 cash and his WM, to Alex for 95 cash,
to the Goths for 23 cahs and their WM.
I also sign RoPs with the Scythias and the Goths as insurance, I want a city between their territory
and we need trading partners.
Xerxes still wants gold for peace and he just got Military Training.
IT: My RoP strategy seems not to work or Hanni simply payed enough as he signs the Scythias against us.
Now this is getting ugly, numerous fronts. I don't even think about taking it to the Celts right now.
The 2 archers impale themselves on Syracuse.
Their army 'Hannibal' moves towards Leptis, 12 HP strong, containing 2 Elephants and a sword.
230: We have a legion army in Leptis, let's use it. We kill 'Hannibal' without problems, defense 2
is just not enough for our legions, 7 of 15 HP left. (One of the legions in the army promotes)
Our 3rd army arrives near Carthago, the pillaging continues and their capital is no disconnected
from their road network.
Near Segusio, the Carths have now 8 units but we have plenty of legions in the region,
we kill a NuMe and an archer that are within reach and get one more elite legion.
I found Silk City, avery additional lux is important.
IT: We lose a legion to a Carth Elephant in Northern Italy coming out of Celtic terrain.
Our GA ends and Marsalia riots, I scroll the city screens and prevent riots in 3 small towns.
An Elephant pillages the road near Leptis and their offensive stack moves next to Segusio.
225: Since our GA ended, Eng, is due in 15 turns.
I kill a sword and 2 Elephants near Carthago this turn.
The walls in Segusio are finished, move a second legion into the town.
I send some of our legions on the islands towards the Carth. mainland, will arrive next turn.
One army is healing in Leptis.
Swap production in 2 cities with 10+ or 15+ spt to horsemen for heavy cav upgrade.
IT: Most of the action takes place in Northern Italy.
A NuMe pillages the road to Segusio, 1 archer and 5 swords attack the city.
We have 2 legions fortified behind walls, on a hill, all attackers are killed and
both legions promote to elite.
Near Genua, 2 Elephants retreat redlined from our legions fortified on hills.
The Carths land 2 swords and a NuMe on Korsika near Olbia, I should have left more units on the island.
220: I kill the NuMe near Olbia, getting an elite legion.
Our army at Leptis kills 1 Elephant and 1 sword near the town, a 2nd sword remains.
Our armies and 1 additional legion take Carthago from its 4 defenders (spears), meaning we
got it 75 years earlier than our historical predecessors we get 2 slaves.
We start an expeditionary force (1 newly built settler, 1 legion, 1 garrison) heading
for the African dyes.
IT: The 2 swords impale themselves at our elite legion in Olbia.
An Elephant attack at Segusio ends with a dead Elephant, 3 more move within range.
They also move a lot of units near Carthago, but don't attack our 2 armies in and near the city.
The Celts and the Macedons sign a peace treaty.
Some resistance i Lepris ends and the city riots in the process.
The Carths have Heavy Cav, move 2 of them near Carthago.
215: Dyes Expedition continues, 3 turns until our 4th lux is secured.
I kill 2 Elephants and 1 Heavy Cav near Carthago, no promotions and 10 visible
Carth units left in the region.
Our legions re-connect the road to Segusio.
Kill two Elephants near the city.
Alex just got Literature.
IT: An Elephant attacks our 8HP garrison army in Carthago and dies.
1 Elephant and 1 Heavy cav die attacking a legion on a hill near the city, the second
Heavy cav kills our legion, our first casualty in Northern Africa.
A Carth stack moves towards Carthago, additional units pillage their former
improvements near the city.
An elite legion near Segusio is attacked by a sword and we get GL Maximus.
Our expedition force spots 4 Persian galleys heading our way.
Aleria finishes rax, starts additional garrisons, Croton finishes courthouse, starts horse
210: After the GA ends, I had to mine an irrigated tile but now I have Canusium back to
a worker every other turn.
The Persians would sign a peace treaty and give us Military Training for 840 gold, they just got Siege Craft too.
Kill 4 units near Carthago with legions and armies.
Maximus builds an army in Segusio.
IT: Two swords impale themselves on units fortified near Carthago.
205: Kill only 2 Carth units this turn near Carthago, most of our units are healing.
Send reinforcements from the mainland, will arrive next turn.
It seems the Caths are now mainly sending swords after I killed a lot of Elephants and a few Cavs.
Egypt and Scynthia still won't talk.
I whip walll in Carthago, there are numerous units heading our way.
IT: 3 Carth swords impale themselves against our army in Carthago.
New Elephants and Cavs move near the city.
I watch someone (maybe Alex, they have the most supply galleys near Carthago) fighting Hanni.
200: I finally get Croton to 10 spt.
Kill 2 Elephants with our legion army near Carthago, send reinforcements towards Carthago.
I left most of the units unmoved to allow some positioning.
Our northern army has still a slot left.
Our legions and armies are really powerful, kill-ratio was something like 1:10
I began producing horsemen for upgrading to Heavy Cav, these units will be extremely useful if covered by
legion armies. (I suggest using legions for armies to get those 2nd movement point)
Hanni still has a healthy production capability as he is sending a stream of units against Carthago.
If Leptis is reinforced the local army can be freed for offensive actions.
Egypt finally signs a peace treaty, allowing our dyes expedition to be completed next turn.
The Scynthians don't want talk right now.
I suggest making peace with Perisa, they finally made it near our coast with 4 galleys but will leave it
to the next leader to decide on that.
On tech, I think we only need Military Training, then maybe Republic will be best.
No new Carth units in Northern Italy except a spear in the last 2 turns, so after we get Heavy Cav
it's maybe time to hit the Celts.
Good luck
Belisar
SAVE
The current situation in Northern Africa
the 6th citiz. is already a specialist.
We have 4 Gothic T-worriors (stats like longbows) near Aquileila, hopefully they don't try something stupid.
Our army is strong against their's but an additional front NE is not what we want.
However, if they enter our territory, we have the first shot and will be able to kill most of them.
I sign a ROP with Alex, the only civ that is not at war against him is Hanni, and I don't want them
to ally against us.
We should have enough money, so science up a notch, Eng. in 16 turns.
IT: Neapolis finishes Colloseum, starts legion.
Canusium worker, MM to get them in 2 turns.
I spot the first Carth. War Elephant, he is injured, interesting.
The Gothic stack moves east and the 3-unit Carth stack heads for Segusio, we have only 1 legion there.
245: Our army attacks Leptis, we defeat 2 defenders by losing only 2 HP.
We capture 2 new slaves at Olbia and land a 16! HP legion army near Caralis.
This is basically a Knight with 16 hitpoints, nice.
Personally, I think Genua should have been founded one tile SW on the wine-hill to better fit in
another city in northern Italy, but I will do this anyway, move settler in position.
I swap Segusio to walls due next turn. Founding at this lux site was a good move by 6thGen but
I think we will have to secure the area sooner or later by taking it to the Celts, only 110 turns
remaining. I do some exploring NE.
I add an archer to the garrison of Pisae, getting the specialist back to work.
IT: The Carths move two additional units near Massila, now they have 5 units (2 NuMes, 1 spear, 1 archer)
They also move an Elephant into Carthago.
240: Alex, the Goths and the Celts got Astronomy.
The Persians would talk, but Xerxes wants cash for peace, I'd say sweet dreams...
Tarentum finishes Aqueduct, start courthouse. Confinium garrison -> garrison.
Segusio walls -> rax
We begin pillaging near Carthago, first the cow tile, then I move on the Iron hill.
Hanni has swords fortified on some tiles, that's the main reason I would have prefered a higher
offensive capability for our army. With the 2-movement, they are simply huge.
We take Caralis from it's 2 spears and now we own all the islands, shouldn't the first Punic War now be over
We get a second spice source in the process.
The attack on Leptis kills another 2 defenders.
I found Mediolanum in northern Italy.
IT: I see a Carth Elephant army near Carthago, but it doesn't attack our pillaging army.
Carth and Egypt sign an alliance agaisnt us, Hanni declares on Alex.
The really bad news: Sparta completes The Temple of Artemis, beating us 2 turns.
Worse, Tyre completes Hadrians Wall in the same IT.
The Scythians establish an emb. in our capital.
Some resistance in Caralis ends, the city riots in the process.
The Carth. ships near Syracuse were not empty, they land 4 units near the town.
235: Swap Rome to HE, a 500-shield Epic.
We just got a excellent demonstration about the subtle differences between Deity and Demigod
difficult level, at Demigod we would have gotten the Temple.
I always thought that this level was completely redundant with its extra settler but it
seems that this 10% difference in cost factor is not negligible.
We finally capture Leptis from its last spear, getting 2 slaves.
Our army continues pillaging around Carthago, this extra-pillaging is nice.
I kill a sword and a NuMe at Syracuse, 2 archers left.
I buy Astronomy from the Scythias for 448 gold, this connects our new conquests in Africa with the mainland.
I get their WM in the process, there is a silk source east which would be nice.
Sell the new WM to Brennus for 108 cash and his WM, to Alex for 95 cash,
to the Goths for 23 cahs and their WM.
I also sign RoPs with the Scythias and the Goths as insurance, I want a city between their territory
and we need trading partners.
Xerxes still wants gold for peace and he just got Military Training.
IT: My RoP strategy seems not to work or Hanni simply payed enough as he signs the Scythias against us.
Now this is getting ugly, numerous fronts. I don't even think about taking it to the Celts right now.
The 2 archers impale themselves on Syracuse.
Their army 'Hannibal' moves towards Leptis, 12 HP strong, containing 2 Elephants and a sword.
230: We have a legion army in Leptis, let's use it. We kill 'Hannibal' without problems, defense 2
is just not enough for our legions, 7 of 15 HP left. (One of the legions in the army promotes)
Our 3rd army arrives near Carthago, the pillaging continues and their capital is no disconnected
from their road network.
Near Segusio, the Carths have now 8 units but we have plenty of legions in the region,
we kill a NuMe and an archer that are within reach and get one more elite legion.
I found Silk City, avery additional lux is important.
IT: We lose a legion to a Carth Elephant in Northern Italy coming out of Celtic terrain.
Our GA ends and Marsalia riots, I scroll the city screens and prevent riots in 3 small towns.
An Elephant pillages the road near Leptis and their offensive stack moves next to Segusio.
225: Since our GA ended, Eng, is due in 15 turns.
I kill a sword and 2 Elephants near Carthago this turn.
The walls in Segusio are finished, move a second legion into the town.
I send some of our legions on the islands towards the Carth. mainland, will arrive next turn.
One army is healing in Leptis.
Swap production in 2 cities with 10+ or 15+ spt to horsemen for heavy cav upgrade.
IT: Most of the action takes place in Northern Italy.
A NuMe pillages the road to Segusio, 1 archer and 5 swords attack the city.
We have 2 legions fortified behind walls, on a hill, all attackers are killed and
both legions promote to elite.
Near Genua, 2 Elephants retreat redlined from our legions fortified on hills.
The Carths land 2 swords and a NuMe on Korsika near Olbia, I should have left more units on the island.
220: I kill the NuMe near Olbia, getting an elite legion.
Our army at Leptis kills 1 Elephant and 1 sword near the town, a 2nd sword remains.
Our armies and 1 additional legion take Carthago from its 4 defenders (spears), meaning we
got it 75 years earlier than our historical predecessors
we get 2 slaves.We start an expeditionary force (1 newly built settler, 1 legion, 1 garrison) heading
for the African dyes.
IT: The 2 swords impale themselves at our elite legion in Olbia.
An Elephant attack at Segusio ends with a dead Elephant, 3 more move within range.
They also move a lot of units near Carthago, but don't attack our 2 armies in and near the city.
The Celts and the Macedons sign a peace treaty.
Some resistance i Lepris ends and the city riots in the process.
The Carths have Heavy Cav, move 2 of them near Carthago.
215: Dyes Expedition continues, 3 turns until our 4th lux is secured.
I kill 2 Elephants and 1 Heavy Cav near Carthago, no promotions and 10 visible
Carth units left in the region.
Our legions re-connect the road to Segusio.
Kill two Elephants near the city.
Alex just got Literature.
IT: An Elephant attacks our 8HP garrison army in Carthago and dies.
1 Elephant and 1 Heavy cav die attacking a legion on a hill near the city, the second
Heavy cav kills our legion, our first casualty in Northern Africa.
A Carth stack moves towards Carthago, additional units pillage their former
improvements near the city.
An elite legion near Segusio is attacked by a sword and we get GL Maximus.
Our expedition force spots 4 Persian galleys heading our way.
Aleria finishes rax, starts additional garrisons, Croton finishes courthouse, starts horse
210: After the GA ends, I had to mine an irrigated tile but now I have Canusium back to
a worker every other turn.
The Persians would sign a peace treaty and give us Military Training for 840 gold, they just got Siege Craft too.
Kill 4 units near Carthago with legions and armies.
Maximus builds an army in Segusio.
IT: Two swords impale themselves on units fortified near Carthago.
205: Kill only 2 Carth units this turn near Carthago, most of our units are healing.
Send reinforcements from the mainland, will arrive next turn.
It seems the Caths are now mainly sending swords after I killed a lot of Elephants and a few Cavs.
Egypt and Scynthia still won't talk.
I whip walll in Carthago, there are numerous units heading our way.
IT: 3 Carth swords impale themselves against our army in Carthago.
New Elephants and Cavs move near the city.
I watch someone (maybe Alex, they have the most supply galleys near Carthago) fighting Hanni.
200: I finally get Croton to 10 spt.
Kill 2 Elephants with our legion army near Carthago, send reinforcements towards Carthago.
I left most of the units unmoved to allow some positioning.
Our northern army has still a slot left.
Our legions and armies are really powerful, kill-ratio was something like 1:10
I began producing horsemen for upgrading to Heavy Cav, these units will be extremely useful if covered by
legion armies. (I suggest using legions for armies to get those 2nd movement point)
Hanni still has a healthy production capability as he is sending a stream of units against Carthago.
If Leptis is reinforced the local army can be freed for offensive actions.
Egypt finally signs a peace treaty, allowing our dyes expedition to be completed next turn.
The Scynthians don't want talk right now.
I suggest making peace with Perisa, they finally made it near our coast with 4 galleys but will leave it
to the next leader to decide on that.
On tech, I think we only need Military Training, then maybe Republic will be best.
No new Carth units in Northern Italy except a spear in the last 2 turns, so after we get Heavy Cav
it's maybe time to hit the Celts.
Good luck
Belisar
SAVE
The current situation in Northern Africa
Kylearan
compound eye
You have exposed an enemy spy! He's from evil Carthage!
"You filthy Romans! Just because your Legionaries are way overpowered (and have silly numbers attached to them, too!) doesn't mean you're allowed to take our capital! Leave our lands immediately, or Italy will suffer the consequence of your arrogance!". Foaming at the mouth, he shows you a map of a beachhead in southern Italy full of Carthaginian war elephants, fire catapults and Numidian mercenaries.
You wonder what madness this man suffers from - his mind seems to be from another world.
"Fools! You will die a horrible argl grmpf..." His screams subside as he is gagged and then dragged away to be thrown into one of your newly built colisseums.
goodjob: )
"You filthy Romans! Just because your Legionaries are way overpowered (and have silly numbers attached to them, too!) doesn't mean you're allowed to take our capital! Leave our lands immediately, or Italy will suffer the consequence of your arrogance!". Foaming at the mouth, he shows you a map of a beachhead in southern Italy full of Carthaginian war elephants, fire catapults and Numidian mercenaries.
You wonder what madness this man suffers from - his mind seems to be from another world.
"Fools! You will die a horrible argl grmpf..." His screams subside as he is gagged and then dragged away to be thrown into one of your newly built colisseums.
goodjob: )Excellent progress Belisar. 
Who needs to pillage when you can capture?
Looked at the save and had a couple of thoughts:
We are currently building a road SE of Leptis Magna (to pull in Ivory), but the Ivory is outside our cultural borders. Maybe we want to make that a colony instead. We may also be running into a weird bug where silks display as Ivory on the city screen. Check a city before you build the colony, is shows we have Ivory but not Silks. Check F2 and our Silks are displayed. I think this was reported in the bugs forum, but I'm not sure if it is at all important.
The fix is here.
Also just noticed that Ivory is a strategic resource, not a luxury in this scenario.
We don't have an embassy with the Celts. Might be a good idea to get one, so we can ROP to more easily attack the Carthaginian holdings in Spain. Also, the Celts have a worker for sale.
Also noticed that the Carth capital moved almost all the way to Gibraltar, so we shouldn't have much in the way of flip risks for the cities east of Cirta.
Nora would be an interesting target, as I believe it is build upon the only source of Spices for Carthage.
Lastly, maybe we want to start settling a line of cities along the road to our silk source, so we aren't at risk of losing the lux through a weedy AI MA.
Who needs to pillage when you can capture?
Looked at the save and had a couple of thoughts:
We are currently building a road SE of Leptis Magna (to pull in Ivory), but the Ivory is outside our cultural borders. Maybe we want to make that a colony instead. We may also be running into a weird bug where silks display as Ivory on the city screen. Check a city before you build the colony, is shows we have Ivory but not Silks. Check F2 and our Silks are displayed. I think this was reported in the bugs forum, but I'm not sure if it is at all important.
The fix is here.
Also just noticed that Ivory is a strategic resource, not a luxury in this scenario.
We don't have an embassy with the Celts. Might be a good idea to get one, so we can ROP to more easily attack the Carthaginian holdings in Spain. Also, the Celts have a worker for sale.
Also noticed that the Carth capital moved almost all the way to Gibraltar, so we shouldn't have much in the way of flip risks for the cities east of Cirta.
Nora would be an interesting target, as I believe it is build upon the only source of Spices for Carthage.
Lastly, maybe we want to start settling a line of cities along the road to our silk source, so we aren't at risk of losing the lux through a weedy AI MA.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask for a swap or skip (which I feel bad doing, since this is such a short game). I was expecting to be able to play tonight, but I had to finish a paper last minute and tomorrow I am driving 8 hours home for Thanksgiving. I will have time to play over the long weekend, so move me accordingly, or don't. Your call Gris.
Griselda
Realms Beyond
Sorry for my absence here, but I have been sick. The good news, I'm back, and should have some days off this week too!
When I had the game, I'd thought it was set up nicely for a quick bite out of the Celts. I guess that got the big veto stamp! In any case, it seems like that's a front we're glad not to have at the moment with the other wars going on, so it's probably for the best.
I am concerned about leaving them around, though. Our legions are so slow, and more so across enemy territory. Even if we have a ROP with the Celts, their settlement and road system won't give us a lot of speed. To win in Spain, I think we're going to need to conquer and settle our way to it. We may not be ready now, but let's keep it in mind.
I guess I shouldn't have tried to squeeze in that temple first in Rome. I wasn't sure that our economy could handle wonder building without it.
I don't know if the gpt bug has been mentioned yet in this thread, but let's try to avoid making any gpt deals if at all possible (of course, if everyone's at war with us, that's moot!).
Griselda
6thGenTexan
Belisar - just played
Speaker - ON DECK
T_McC - UP NOW
I'd rather not do skips in such a short game, so hopefully Speaker can find some time to play after T_McC
-Griselda
When I had the game, I'd thought it was set up nicely for a quick bite out of the Celts. I guess that got the big veto stamp! In any case, it seems like that's a front we're glad not to have at the moment with the other wars going on, so it's probably for the best.
I am concerned about leaving them around, though. Our legions are so slow, and more so across enemy territory. Even if we have a ROP with the Celts, their settlement and road system won't give us a lot of speed. To win in Spain, I think we're going to need to conquer and settle our way to it. We may not be ready now, but let's keep it in mind.
I guess I shouldn't have tried to squeeze in that temple first in Rome.
I wasn't sure that our economy could handle wonder building without it.I don't know if the gpt bug has been mentioned yet in this thread, but let's try to avoid making any gpt deals if at all possible (of course, if everyone's at war with us, that's moot!).
Griselda
6thGenTexan
Belisar - just played
Speaker - ON DECK
T_McC - UP NOW
I'd rather not do skips in such a short game, so hopefully Speaker can find some time to play after T_McC
-Griselda
Two words to keep in mind for this report: Unintended Consequences
Be careful what you wish for ....
And now on with the show
RBC3c
200 BC (0)
Diplomacy check: We are at war with Scythia and Persia in addition to Carthage. Scythia won't talk, but Persia will. Pay Darius 120 gold to end this charade. We aren't close to attacking him, and I don't want to deal with anything he lands. Monarchy is at 4th (at least) and Seige Craft at 3rd. Will want to get Monarchy for Engineering, if at all possible. We need this tech to reach Republic. Only Persia (and Carthage) have Military Training. At least establishes easy trade strategy if we can get there.
Think about buying Celt worker, but I vaguely recall some sort of Gentleman's Agreement not to buy multiple workers from any of the AI, and I'm nearly positive we already have a Celt working the fields.
And in a bit of foreshadowing, consider whether it would be a good idea to MA with Celts against Carthage. Decide not to in case next leader would like to attack Brennus.
The Best Laid Plans
I'd like to focus our military activity on North Africa, and not divide troops to attack Spain. We can play defense on the northern front, and I'd like to settle Northeast (at least once the Scythians will talk), so that our route to the silks only goes through our territory. Swap Neapolis to Citizen, Padua to Garrison to form first settler pair. Swap 14 spt Ancona to a Legion II (instead of a 42 shield horse). Swap Croton to Garrison, intending to use this to free-up Legion at Caralis for North African duty. Swap Pisae to worker, with growth in 1 and an icky 13 spt.
Goals for turn: Get good value to Engineering in trade. Hold NW front steady. Settle 2-3 new cities in the NE. Capture 2-3 cities in former Carthaginian core.
Build colony on Ivory near Leptis Magna. Start moving a horse and Legion II towards Silk City. Leave NW army in place, to keep the Celts from getting any funny ideas. [cue dramatic music
]Nice touch Belisar, leaving the galleys out in the water so I can find them. Have to remember that for the end of my turn.
Press return ...
Carthage and Celts sign MA against us.
So much for my plans.
Three Carthage units die at Carthago. Only noticed Celt movement was a dinky boat.
195 BC (1)
Kill Carthage spear. Reverse some troops towards the Celt lands. Move army to spice city. When it is properly garrisoned, I'll smack down the Celts with the army. Move loose Legions towards Celt city that interrupts our road network. Found Dyes Town on top of Dyes. Pay Scythians 60 gold for peace. Note a Gallic Sword wandering around the East. Think about MA with Goths to give Celts something to think about.
IT - Two more Carthaginian units die at Carthago. And Brennus has been a very bad boy.
Celts sign MA with Macedon against Scythia, Goths, and ... Carthage! Why do I think there is something broken in this scenario. 190 BC (2)
Shuffle units to repel Celt attack on Mediolanum. Kill Gallic in E with Legion/Horse combo. Kill Jumbo with S Army.
IT - Persia allies with Carthage against Celts
185 BC (3)
Lose a Garrison to Gallic Sword, shuffle units to prevent second attack losing city. Scratch another Carthage unit near Carthago. Hannibal seems to have noticed Leptis Magna. Adjust science to get Engineering in 4 turns. (Still not out there with anyone we're not at war with.)
IT - Macedon and Celts sign MA against us. Welcome to the three-front war.
Many cities start to riot, use scroll-ahead to adjust. This was a theme this round, as our lux routes kept getting formed and broken.
180 BC (4)
Capture Celt city of Masillia. Have a sneaky idea and set Masillia to Citizen (boy, is that whip going to hurt!). [later, I just changed to walls rather than the -3 pop citizen whip]
This Re-establishes our trade routes. Put everybody back to work.
Engineering still due in 3. Hope to get Macedon and the Celts off of our backs before the end of my turn. New strategy is to really hurt Celts and bring them to the table (pay for peace). Peace with Macedon could then include a tech swap. Start building Horses instead of workers out of Canusium.
Carthage seems to have run out of units, so move offensive Army next to Nora (along with two Legion II), score one army victory. Defensive army covering workers on hill adjacent to Carthago. Only 1 War elephant can attack next turn, across a river against a Legion II fortified behind walls.
With Macedon at war with us, the sea is dangerous. (I think they have 6 bazillion galleys, and boy is it exciting to watch them move every turn.) Will try to get one shipment of Garrisons to Leptis Magna, then wait for peace to really begin ferrying troops to Africa. In meantime, hurt the Celts.
IT - Elephant retreats from Carthago. Greeks land Hoplite pair next to Caralis. I have no idea where the Celts are going. They seem to be retreating from our cities.
175 BC (5)
Walls in Caralis complete. Capture Nora, gain 147 gold, and I think cut Carthage off from Spices. Kill three Carthaginian units near Carthago. Donk another Celt unit. I'll let the Hoplites try a go on offense against Legion II's. Behind walls or fortified on a hill, their choice. Make about 100 gold trading the WM around.
IT - Celts and Carthage fight in the East. Both Hoplites die on our Legion II. Celts land an archer near Olbia.
170 BC (6)
Kill Celt archer. Nothing else of note.
IT - Carthage loses a sword and jumbo to us. See them fighting with Celts and Macedon. Carthage lands two heavy cav (separately) on our islands.
165 BC (7)
Engineering comes in. Engineering to Persia for Military Training + 210 gold. Military Training to Egypt for Monarchy + 156 gold + WM. WM + 90 gold to Scythia for WM. WM to Persia (who has Republic) for 20 gold. 20 gold from Goths for WM. Upgrade 4 Horses to Heavy Cav. Research set for Republic (30 turns @ -8 gpt). Dismiss both Carthaginian Heavy Cavs.
IT - Carthage lands Heavy Cav + Jumbo next to Olbia. Then Macedon lands a Hoplite there.
160 BC (8)
Chase jumbo from Olbia. Kill spear at Agedincum. Move citizen into position to found city that secures our road network in Celt territory. Celts will talk, but I'm going to wait until Agedincum falls. Then Macedon should talk, and we'll be the only ones they know with Engineering.
IT - Lose a Garrison and a Legion II on the Hill outside of Carthago. Sound the retreat for the Armies in Carthage. [I had started to leave defense of Carthago to Garrisons, moving the defensive army into Nora, and attacking another Carth city with the offensive army. Went too soon. Premature evacuation
]All three units threatening Olbia die. There had been a trickle of units from Carthage the last few turns, but all of a sudden they come up with 4 Heavy Cav outside of Carthago. Retreat the defensive army. Macedon lands another Hoplite next to Caralis.
155 BC (9)
Re-position troops in Africa. Defensive Army to Carthage, Offensive Army to Nora. I had visions of taking one more city before my turn ends, but what are you gonna do?
Our two Heavy Cav kill their two heavy Cav at Carthago. Threat averted. Kill three spears at Agedincum and burn the city. Brennus will pay us for peace, not sure I want to take it. Macedon won't talk. The Celts are losing against Carthage, as the grey borders are creeping out of Spain.
Kill Hoplite harassing Caralis. Take peace with the Celts. I want to be out of the war with Macedon ASAP (so the seas will be safer), and breaking the MA is a good start. Plus, our Celtic conquests give us a clean shot into Spain and the northern Carthage holdings. Peace + 140 gold from the Celts. Macedon still won't talk to us. Sell WM to Celts for 20 gold + TM. (Other, subtle reason for peace: The boot has been almost fully improved, so our workers will be heading to the front lines.)
IT - No attacks. Our Ivory colony may get pillaged (heh, until our army squashes the invader.) The Greeks are advancing a mini-SOD up the east coast of the Mediterranean. It'll be three turns until they reach us.
150 BC (10)
Whack said invader. Build Ariminium (NE) in strong defensive position (on hill, attacks must come from across river.) This gives us a three-city western front where the army can cover all three cities. Load Elite* Legion II into the Western army, now has 18 HP.
I leave all (but one) galleys with movement. They are all in coastal cities, and should be active when the game opens. There is a citizen/garrsion pair NE of Aquileia (NE). I had intended to a city 1 NE of the fortified Legion, but the next leader can choose what to do with it. I figure most any city we found from here on out is going to be hopelessly corrupt, so first priorities are food and defensibility, with production potential not being of much relevance.
End Notes
Well, I had a plan, but a potential 3-front war put the boots to that. Anyway, captured two cities and founded one. If I kept track correctly, our kill ratio was 35:4. But it still feels like nothing got accomplished.
It looks like we will be playing defense in old Carthage for a little while longer. Just when I thought they were gassed, they came up with a bunch of Heavy Cavs. We're now in a good position to take their Spanish holdings, as they are still fighting the Celts. (Heh, I think Carthage will attack anything before our Legions!) The unintended consequence of getting the Celts to declare war on us was to force us (me) to put all of our new Legions up towards the Celt territory. Well, we now can cross rivers, and don't have to go through anyone else's territory to hit Spanish Carthage. We have a lot of firepower available on that front. The Celts can wait, as I don't think they get any unit better than the Gallic sword. Spears really don't hold up well to Legion armies.
Macedon still won't talk. They probably should sometime soon, but bear in mind that they do have a stack approaching our eastern holdings. Should be two turns before they are in our territory.
Most regretful thing about my turn was no GL on about 6-8 elite victories. Would have been nice to have a 4th army to deploy east of our core.
On a completely different note: I'm not sure the Macedon-Persia front has moved the entire game? Unless Miletus was originally Greek?
The Save
First, a picture of our NW front. Note the wide-open roads to Spain.
Now the situation in N. Africa. Not much different than when I got the game, as I pushed our production North. Still don't have enough units in Leptis Magna to allow our army to attack.
Now the situation in N. Africa. Not much different than when I got the game, as I pushed our production North. Still don't have enough units in Leptis Magna to allow our army to attack.
Just a few more notes/thoughts for the next player.
We are probably not running at the proper level of science funding. I just set it for break-even. I did not revolt to Monarchy, nor do I think we should. I think in this scenario that Monarchy and Oligarchy have the same MP and unit support, but Monarchy allows cash-rushing. Since we will have Republic in 30 turns or less, I feel we should hold off revolting until then. After Republic we can run all cash, and it will be much easier to generate Citizens out of corrupt cities than with pop-rushing. [Everytime a corrupt city grows, we'll be able to get a Citizen for ~100 gold]
The 30 turn run-up to Republic should also coincide nicely with the lifespan of Spanish Carthage. Even though we could have banged the Celts around a lot more, I made peace with them so we could use their units against Carthage. With the AI targeting, I suspect the Carthaginians will send every turns production in Spain chasing Gallic Swords since they are much softer targets than Legions. This seemed like a golden opportunity to hit Spanish Carthage. There will be a bit of a lag at first, since we have to run units out of our core, but once we start hitting cities it should go pretty quick.
Next player should also look for whip opportunities (maybe Dyes City harbor?), as I didn't whip anything on my turns. The city MM has gotten easier, as we are now using almost every land tile in the boot. I didn't try to make any stacked galley runs for Leptis Magna, as both Carthage and Macedon were also running stacks (of about 4 each).
Don't know how much longer until Carthage is gassed. Hopefully they are in Republic, and will soon run out of money to rush things. [I kind of suspect that the lag at the end of Belisar's turn and the beginning of mine may have been an Anarchy period of a Gov't change for Carthage.]
I think we have to plan to be at war with most people most of the time. The ping-pong of alliances is starting to get dizzying. So if the gpt bug wasn't incentive enough, I think we should try to get cash for anything we sell, and not plan on getting luxuries from anyone else.
We are probably not running at the proper level of science funding. I just set it for break-even. I did not revolt to Monarchy, nor do I think we should. I think in this scenario that Monarchy and Oligarchy have the same MP and unit support, but Monarchy allows cash-rushing. Since we will have Republic in 30 turns or less, I feel we should hold off revolting until then. After Republic we can run all cash, and it will be much easier to generate Citizens out of corrupt cities than with pop-rushing. [Everytime a corrupt city grows, we'll be able to get a Citizen for ~100 gold]
The 30 turn run-up to Republic should also coincide nicely with the lifespan of Spanish Carthage. Even though we could have banged the Celts around a lot more, I made peace with them so we could use their units against Carthage. With the AI targeting, I suspect the Carthaginians will send every turns production in Spain chasing Gallic Swords since they are much softer targets than Legions. This seemed like a golden opportunity to hit Spanish Carthage. There will be a bit of a lag at first, since we have to run units out of our core, but once we start hitting cities it should go pretty quick.
Next player should also look for whip opportunities (maybe Dyes City harbor?), as I didn't whip anything on my turns. The city MM has gotten easier, as we are now using almost every land tile in the boot. I didn't try to make any stacked galley runs for Leptis Magna, as both Carthage and Macedon were also running stacks (of about 4 each).
Don't know how much longer until Carthage is gassed. Hopefully they are in Republic, and will soon run out of money to rush things. [I kind of suspect that the lag at the end of Belisar's turn and the beginning of mine may have been an Anarchy period of a Gov't change for Carthage.]
I think we have to plan to be at war with most people most of the time. The ping-pong of alliances is starting to get dizzying. So if the gpt bug wasn't incentive enough, I think we should try to get cash for anything we sell, and not plan on getting luxuries from anyone else.
Good turns, we are making progress.
With the AI in pop-rush govs at the beginning of the scenario, they had lots of money so multiple alliances are one consequence.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as everyone is fighting everyone else and our legions are probably the best units in the game for an AW situation where you have to kill lots of units on defense.
Now that we have Havy Cav our offensive actions will be much faster.
One thing: Do we want peace with the Celts? If our forces are concentrated
north why not taking them out? Remenber, only 90 turns left for domination.
Will have to look at the save.
With the AI in pop-rush govs at the beginning of the scenario, they had lots of money so multiple alliances are one consequence.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, as long as everyone is fighting everyone else and our legions are probably the best units in the game for an AW situation where you have to kill lots of units on defense.
Now that we have Havy Cav our offensive actions will be much faster.
One thing: Do we want peace with the Celts? If our forces are concentrated
north why not taking them out? Remenber, only 90 turns left for domination.
Will have to look at the save.
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