RBCiv Conquests SG Discussion Thread

[T-hawk]

I'll captain up the Sid team, of course. Portugal sounds good as per Gobi Bear's suggestion. Not sure if I want a second game, I'll see what happens.

Feel free to run more than one game with a civ if there's enough interest. 14 different civs got filled up for the Middle Ages, so 8 here will probably go pretty quick...

We're running patch 1.15 still for all of these?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I would like a piracy game and a Meso-American game.

 

[Rubberjello]

They all sound good to me! Sign me up anywhere. (just 1 though please)

 

[Jabah]

Any game, with high difficulty level but 'normal' (or almost) restrictions, which might mean Portugal or Aztecs if taking Arathorn's list.


Jabah


BTW:
1. I am not sure Arathorn means OCC with the Mayans, but only 1 city culture victory.
2. for 'historical' purpose, if you want a European civ having treasure VP coming only from piracy, it really should NOT be spanish, they were the victims (at least on sea), not the hunters. England is probably more realistic for that.

 

[LKendter]

Manly Mayans -- Regeant -- Goal is domination win
I would suggest you check the game - I don't think domination is a victory condition!

If it is, then what percent is needed?

======================

Do the American civs *have* to sacrifice to win?
I think the starting buildings put you close to 3000 culture by game end. The question is there enough time to build some killing wonders to culture?

 

[Charis]

Thanks Lee! You're right, domination is not an enabled victory condition. Nor is conquest. ONLY Cultural and VP wins are enabled (unless an Iroquois game which has to be a mod anyway adds new victory conditions, but I couldn't hazard even a rough guess as to an appropriate percent even then)

Charis

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

We're the Idiosyncratic Iroquois! We don't play for Cultural or VP victories like all of those other civs! We have our own unique path to victory!

I had mentioned the Iroquois mod to Charis a few weeks ago. Basically what this mod will entail is:

*Iroquois as a playable civ

*Domination as an added victory condition. The exact % is yet to be determined - I have to run some tests to find out what a good % would be.

*Conquest as an added victory condition. I don't see this happening, but leaving the option open for the team could be fun. Who knows, depending on how the game goes we might be able to research caravels and sail some Mounted Warriors to attack Europe

*Changes to Victory point scoring. We all saw what happened in RBC13 games that had conquest and domination as victory goals - the VP scoring made them impossible to accomplish. After a quick look through the editor, I may change Conquest VPs from 100 to 25, Unit VP from 5 to 2, and Special Unit VPs (treasures) from 2000 to 4000 (so that the Iroquois will have to assault and defend plantation sites.)

*Cultural Victory would be left on, but wouldn't be a goal for the Iroquois team. Our goal is to the Europeans and Americas!

*Maybe change turns from 150 to something higher? This would depend on what is decided for a final domination %

*In a PM, Charis had mentioned giving the Mounted Warrior enslave, so that cultural victory could be a nice fallback option. However, there are scores of barb camps in North America, so I think this would give the Iro an unfair advantage.

*Perhaps play this as an Always War variant with Domination as a goal? Maybe allow peace until the first European city is settled in North America - and then the Iroquois go on the warpath for the rest of the game! Could be interesting, although settling cities on the coast would be a no-no with all of the amphibious units in this game . . .

*Difficulty level is open, though I'd like it to be Emperor+


Well, there's enough to discuss for the moment. I'll run some tests in the editor to see how much land would be a good domination %. There's a lot of sea to factor in.

EDIT: Alright, ran a quick test. Settling all of NA gives about 25% land. All of NA, Central America, and the Caribbean gives us 33% land. All of NA, Central America, Caribbean, and SA gives us 61% land. Note that this doesn't factor in sea tiles brought in by border expansion, since I was too lazy to increase the culture of each city. It also does not factor in 20 tiles of the Amazon that I couldn't bring into cultural control (can't found cities on jungle/marsh/forest/tundra).

What does everyone think? I think settling all of SA would make for a boring, long game, so how does 30-35% sound for land?

 

[Arathorn]

Whoops! My bad on the domination. Conquest is always a victory condition, though, so it's still possible.

Possible alternative for Mayans, then....
Masochistic Mayans -- emperor (demi-god?)
Win by culture in single city. That city may have no culture-producing buildings ever built in it (unless there's a building that doubles culture/sacrifice -- I don't remember...then limited to just that one). [E.g. Sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice to get the needed culture.]

I had originally planned on proposing England as the "pirate civ" (as I think a pirate civ is a really cool idea and I would like to see it played out -- and England seemed natural). I changed my mind for one reason. As I read the Civilopedia, the English UU Sea Dog replaces the privateer. However, the privateer has hidden nationality and the Sea Dog does not. In my mind, piracy has that element of "not at war" about it, and it simply would not be possible to do this as the English. They have Sea Dogs...they don't get privateers (again, as I read the Civilopedia), so there's no real chance to attack without war. Just explaining my rationale....

I had not envisioned an OCC for the Incans, simply victory by the culture of one city. It might well work, though. The Incans have good starting lands and a fair chunk of culture/turn already. They seemed to me to have the best chance of the non-sacrificing single city win. Whatever Charis thinks is best, of course.... Adding the settler back in right away would certainly help with getting a couple of the nice American wonders...)

I hadn't thought about open. That's a good idea, too, of course. More ideas than civs... Probably good. I would caution against too many games, though. I think a lot of us got a bit burned out by the Middle Ages games, so a bit fewer commitments might be wise.

I'm up for pretty much any ONE game. I'd probably rather avoid the easier ones (England and Aztecs from my list) and would put a weak first choice on Portugal, but I'm up for nearly anything. Put me wherever you need me (captaining, too, if you need/want...not a big deal either way).

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

I might sign up for one, but I want to see the revised list removing the domination idea.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

Sign me up for Corrado's Crazy Iro game, as well as the piracy game (whichever civ that ends up being), if there is enough space.

 

[Justus II]

Wow, a lot of activity since this morning! That’s what I get for going to work!

I’d definitely like to take a crack at the Cultural French. Difficulty of Emperor is fine, DG would be tempting, but I’m afraid that would just mean more AI units killing each other and racking up VPs. I can already see the need for some Piracy of our own, just to keep the AI from getting treasure back home for VPs. There would also be some motivation for colonizing the New World, as that’s the only place to get more cities, for cheap (well, rushed) culture, as well as pulling in luxuries.

Which leads me to my next point. I agree with some restrictions on European warfare. Passive (i.e. no attacking cities) on the continent would probably be right, and probably no pillaging inside their borders, as otherwise a pillaging army can knock them back into the Middle Ages. But any cities in the New World should be fair game, kind of a Cold War situation. I would make a few exceptions for historical reasons, definitely the English ought to be able to conquer the French cities in the British Isles (which represent the rebellious Scots, IIRC), and maybe an exemption for the Dutch to go against Spain. Without seeing the map, I don’t know if there are any other anomalous situations that would apply. I would think that you could fight to retake cities you lost (either due to war or flip).

I’ll just stick with one game for now, unless I see some other teams come up short, although the Iroquois variant also sounds pretty intriguing…

 

[Arathorn]

Hmmm...Justus raises some good/interesting points/questions.

I would argue that re-capturing of cities be allowed (not normal in passive rules) in Europe, that pillaging be allowed even inside enemy territory in Europe (serves 'em right!), and that anything goes in the new world. As for historical exemptions...not my cup of tea. It's hard enough for some of us to remember the difference between Europe and America and rulesets, let alone different rules for different parts of Europe. But to each his own!

Arathorn

 

[Gobi Bear]

I'm in.

I'll probably sign up for a game with historically-based variant victory conditions, if one like that is set up.

 

[Caesar_Augustus]

Originally posted by Arathorn
Conquest is always a victory condition, though, so it's still possible.

Actually this isn't true. If conquest is disabled, you can eliminate all of the other civs but the game will continue until you've satisfied one of the other victory conditions.

I tested this at the same time as I tested the domination limit for the Iroquois game. I changed things around until each AI only had one undefended city, and the Iroquois had a stack of longbows next to each one. After eliminating them all, I allowed 5 turns to pass and the game didn't end. So I retired, and replay verified that none of the AI had respawned anywhere.

First time I've ever seen ALL of the civs beat up!

 

[romeothemonk]

Put me down for a cultural team, either French or American, depedning on where the need is greater.

 

[Speaker]

Sign me up for Sid with T-Hawk.

 

[Bede]

Demigod English historical theme, please. And a MesoAMerican if slot is available.

 

[Yom]

Sign me up for DG or Deity please. No strong preference as to country.

Edit: I will be busy until the 7th/8th though, so whoever starts the game, put me low on the roster and skip me if I'm up before then.

 

[Cuivienen]

Sign me up for the French cultural victory, and any one of the historical-based games.

 

[akots]

Bloodthirsty nature sometimes demands something brutal. If possible, please sign me up for a game where it is allowed to sacrifice (Maya Deity, signle city cultural or similar?).