RBD Succession game 2 - Nippon Rising

[Jaffa Tamarin]

This turn brough to you earlier than expected courtesy of jetlag. Yay?

Building. Lots of building. Also, we made contact with the outside world

470BC Kyoto produces settler. Settler and Kyoto spearman start north to be shipped to island. This leaves Kyoto without any defence, but I think at this point it's safe to do so. Our galley explores towards the land sighted to the northeast. Rearrange Osaka for quicker growth.

450BC Northeast land seems to be just another small island.

430BC Thebes finishes spearman, starts courthouse. Philosophy done, start on Mathematics.
Our galley exploring the northeast island sinks after I accidentally leave it too far from the coast

390BC Kyoto finishes another settler. Izumo finishes temple, starts harbor. Tokyo finishes harbor, starts galley. Settler and spearman land on island near yellow dot site.

370BC Spearman sent to investigate fungal growth on mountains (goody hut). Finds it deserted. Too many happy mushrooms?

350BC Satsuma finishes harbor, starts courthouse. Kagoshima finishes settler, starts worker. Mathematics done, start Republic. One of our galleys sights the southern polar ice cap Yellow Dot City founded.

330BC Kyoto finishes another settler. Nagoya finishes harbor, starts courthouse.

270BC Galley finished in Tokyo. Worker finished in Kagoshima. Nagasaki finishes temple, starts courthouse. We make contact with an Iroquois galley! Pay 175 gold for contact with Romans and Greeks. Romans give world map + Horseback Riding + 90 gold + 1 gold/turn for our world map. Iroquois give us 47 gold to trade world maps. Greeks give 59 gold + 1 gold/turn. Can just see the edge of the Germans (?) on the Greek map. White Dot City founded.

250BC Nara finishes harbor, starts courthouse.

230BC Unrest in Osaka. Ack! Institute 10% luxury tax. Iroquois annoyingly land a settler team on the northern island and steal the goody hut Shimonoseki founded.

210BC The Iroquois start on the Great Library. We are 20 turns from finishing it. Dispatch a couple of workers to help with improvements on the northern island.

190BC Thebes finishes courthouse, starts barracks. Tokyo builds a spearman. Edo finishes temple, starts courthouse. Green Dot City founded.

We get Republic next turn. Science rate has been turned down to save gold.

Our empire is HUGE compared to everyone else we know about.

Our ship to the northeast with the spearman aboard is heading toward the goody hut location outside of Tonawanda.

 

[Zed-F]

Our empire ought to be huge relative to the others considering our starting location. Maybe we should rename Kyoto to Baby Factory?

On a side note, I'm curious how we stand tech-wise compared to the other civs, as well as what the map looks like now that we've traded to upgrade it. Anyone care to post a screenie of it? I'm not sure exactly how to capture one, PrintScrn doesn't seem to generate an image file in Civ3 like it does in D2.

 

[Jaffa Tamarin]

Techwise, the Iroquois are slightly ahead (they have everything we have, and Construction). Greeks and Romans are behind.

 

[Sirian]

In the year 200BC, a boy from Nagasaki was playing on a frozen lake. The ice cracked, the boy fell in and disappeared. His playmates ran to fetch help. Strong swordsmen from the royal barracks rushed to the lake. They broke through the ice and pulled the boy's body to shore. His warmth was gone, his breathing stopped, his heart no longer beating. The other children wailed and mourned, and the town was sorrowful. A ceremonial burial was scheduled and the entire community gathered to grieve at the loss. As the bonfire was lit beneath the boy's pyre, a wondrous and frightful thing happened: THE BOY SAT UP. He cried out in pain as flames licked up all around him, and he coughed and choked on the smoke. Men rushed to pull him from the fire, but not before his right arm was badly burned and most of his hair singed away. The men rolled him in the snow, then wrapped him in blankets. He passed out, and slept for three days, during which many believed that he had again died. Others said no, for he breathed and his heart did beat again, but who had ever returned from a Long Sleep? No one. To sleep forever was the same as death. So said the Verses.

But the Verses also said of the Third Prophet: "Twice resurrected he shall be, a man who walks with Death as his companion. His face will bear the scars of the Mother's burdens. Of fire and ice, the shards of his soul, rent asunder by the might and glory of Her. He will talk to spirits, and they to him. And his Vision shall reveal the Truth That Binds."

When the boy awoke from his Long Sleep, after three days, his hair began to grow gray on his right side, where he had been burned the worst. His face was scarred. His mother wept both from joy and sorrow, for it was a miracle that her child had been returned to her from the land of the dead, yet she grieved still for the pain he suffered. His father had been slain in battle, fighting barbarians on the tundra -- yet he spoke to the air as if to his father, and word spread across the countryside faster than a horse can ride. Silversan, he would come to be called, in honor of the silver hair that grew only on his right side.

Some ten years later, as Silversan had grown into a man, the temple elders found him wandering one night, talking to the spirits in a daze. They watched him from afar, not daring to disturb him, but then he fell to the earth, into the snow, and did not pick himself up. The elders carried him back to town, and again he slept the Long Sleep. This time when he awoke, he was mad with urgency. He babbled so quickly, no one could understand him, much less record his ravings. The next morning, he approached the Elders. He asked them to record a Vision he had of a place, a place, he claimed, that the Mother Herself had shown to him. "Now I must go and find this place."

The Elders thought they knew where the place would be, but they secretly consulted the Verses, which proscribed a Test for determing False Prophets. So they led Silversan around the land, to various cities, showing him places similar to what he had described -- yet purposely avoiding traveling to Osaka. At each such stop, Silversan scanned the land intently, wandering for days in a fevered search, only to return quietly and say, "This is not the place." Nagoya, Izumo, Thebes, Kagoshima, Tokyo... on and on they went, and always Silversan would search and search, then make his pronouncement: "This is not the place."

Finally they came to Osaka, and the Elders confidently led Silversan to the site of the ruins of the First Temple, which had been destroyed eons ago by the wicked Egyptians. All expected him to pronouce this as the place, for the shamen had agreed for centuries that this must be the site referred to in the verses foretelling of the Third Prophet. Yet Silversan said again, "This is not the place," and the priests were confounded. While they made plans to burn Silversan as a witch and False Prophet, and held him in chains, a handful of black clad men slipped unseen and unheard into the city. All that is known is that those few who witnessed the raid and lived to tell about it spoke of Running Death, as metal stars flew from the hands of these attackers, felling warriors in a single strike. Mighty iron swords would sweep from their sheaths, cleave a man in two and return beneath the black robes of the Ninjas in one smooth motion. Two hundred and seventy-one of the lord's guards and temple protectors were slain by a mere dozen Ninja, without harming one of them. They rescued Silversan and led him away.


It is written that when the Ninjitsu Masters led Silversan past mount Fuji and into the heart of the sacred valley, that he fell to his knees and wept, saying, "This is the place!"

"When I drowned, and was taken to the Land of the Dead, I saw a woman so lovely she could only be the Mother. She showed me her two hands, and in each she held a place dear to Her heart. In the one hand, I saw this valley, shielded by a great wall of stone that men had built. In the other hand, I saw a wondrous temple, decorated by divine works of art. The woman said to me, "You will build these things, that the truth in them will reveal itself to all who Seek. The gentle hearth shall be girded by a wall of might, while the iron fist shall be tempered by the artist's hand. The wife nurtures the husband, the husband protects the wife. Both are the same. Together, they are the One truth."

So it was that Silversan wandered the sacred valley and spoke of his vision, and the Truth that he revealed was so plainly elegant, that all the people followed him gladly, and the entire city of Kyoto set to work upon building The Great Wall. What better symbol of the Mother's divine hand of protection, here where the flower of devotion to Her first bloomed?

So it was also that Silversan journeyed to Osaka and ordered the disbanding of the great library project, for the Third Prophet foresaw that the Mother required perfect balance. Kyoto, the city of the First Prophet, devoted above all else to religion, should build the mightiest and greatest military fortification of all time, and so must the city of the Second Prophet, devoted to marking the rigors of war and serving to remind of the perils of weakness, should build the most grand religious Chapel to Her Glory. So would these great monuments be held in Her Two Hands, and the marriage of them bring the age of wonderment to Nippon.

While the wall would seem the more difficult task, requiring the labors of hundreds of thousands of lifetimes of hard work, its progress is marked and readily visible. One day it will be completed. Yet the Pristine Chapel eludes the people of Osaka, who struggle to figure out the proper way to construct this grand chapel and have not yet found it. Even as the Royal Treasury opens wide and wise men ponder the problems in the houses of learning in every city in the land, still we are unsure of the final nature of this chapel, what it shall be like. All we know is that the Verses, they are true, and the vision of the Prophets will guide us.

 

[Sirian]

Shamen and Elders have sought to understand the cryptic prophecies and visions of Silversan. The Great Wall is easy to understand, and you need but travel to Kyoto to see its progress for yourself. The Pristine Chapel remains a mystery. We do not yet know and understand enough about the construction of such a glorious building, nor is our expression of art sufficiently refined to be worthy to decorate it as yet. Surely we must bend all our research efforts to puzzling this out.

The sacking of the Great Library caused much consternation at the time, as this grand repository was supposed to house all knowledge of the world in one location, and greatly enhance the pace of learning by eliminating redundancies and offering our scholars definitive works on any subject they may have need to inquire over. Many have claimed that only the threat of the return of the Ninja kept detractors from taking bolder action to stop Silversan from disbanding the Great Library project. That he did, in fact, walk with Death by his side frightened many, and whether the Ninja were men or angels is still unclear. Yet as time has passed, the wisdom of abandoning the library has come to be understood. The nations of the earth are few, and so widely scattered that relying on the crafty sea-demons, the Iroquois, to give us all the knowledge of other lands, seems folly now. By the time we might construct the Library, it should already be obsolete.

Far better to turn away from building monuments to the Truth of Men, and build instead the Truth of the Mother, the works that She could hold in her hands, to be proud of how Her people have kept the Covenant. For Silversan was the Third Prophet, who revealed that there is no Third Truth, but only the One Truth, which is a marriage of the nurture and growth of the Verses of Siriansan with the strength and protection of Carbonsan. Nippon must always balance both, lest we fall from the Mother's grace.

So did Silversan order the construction of many barracks across the land, and the training of vast armies, even as he devoted the heart of the empire to his religious monuments. Will the completion of these two monuments indeed bring about a golden age of prosperity, as Silversan promised? Or will it take the training of our men not just in the art of war, but of the holy war of Ninjitsu, to bring about that golden age? The widespread training of whole armies of such samurai lies yet beyond our grasp, even as does the mystery of the Chapel. We must learn more. We must find a way to control and organize such warriors, as well as to teach them. We need traditions, systems. And then we need ships as seaworthy as those of the crafty Gaijen, the Iroquois. All our vessels that have sought to cross the vast oceans to reach the lands of the west have been lost at sea.

What can be made of these visions? Time will tell.

 

[Sirian]

I stayed in Despotism through my turn. Republic would cut corruption, and perhaps break even on income, but would require luxuries. Most of our larger cities have some wheat or cattle, so they are growing quickly enough for the moment. The whip was cracking as I could crack it in cities plagued by dismal corruption or low production. Spicetown got a library, Ego got a harbor, Yellow Dot got a temple, Yoko got a granary, Nagoya got a courthouse. There is more whipping to do, I think, because the despotism curve starts to hit diminishing returns.

A few turns in, Greece made contact with the Germans. I bought embassies with everyone on earth and, because they all have less territory than us, got back all I spend and more from Right of Passage agreements. Every 20 turns, somebody needs to check in on them, see if the price can be increased.

The first thing I did when I opened my inherited turn was scan the sea for paths to the AI continent. Sadly, there are none, we are STUCK in isolation until the arrival of Navigation, but for whatever colonies the Iro squeeze out on our side of the divide. They can barely get across the ocean, even counting their extra movement point AND the ability to safely navigate sea squares. I am pretty sure the AI actually "cheats" in that regard, being able to "see" its way from one landmass to the next, if there is a legal path for it it to take without have to pause its ships in waters that are dangerous to its current tech level.

So knowing that we're isolated means we can't make this an early finish. Just not possible. Maybe early-ISH, but not until we have Navigation or Magnetism. Likewise, we are shielded from all but the Iro's. So for a while this will be a building game.

As I researched Construction, still some twenty turns from being able to finish the GL, I realized that it was going to come too late to matter. The Iros are ahead of the other AI's in tech, or at least they were until I traded Construction and a hefty chunk of gold to Rome for Polytheism. (It would have cost us more to research it, I checked the science bar carefully). With Rome having Poly and Iro having Currency, they were just going to trade with each other, so I brokered it. I held on to Republic jealously, but the rest of the techs got brokered around, because the AI's collectively had too much cash-on-hand, and I had to do something. And just like that, we're in the middle ages, still 7 turns to go on the GL. Well, heck, beelining to Education, we could let the AI's build the GL, get zero from it, and we could swap out to Sistine Chapel, using the Palace as a placeholder. We have to run a hefty negative cash flow for a while to get to Sistine in time, but we can more than absorb it with 500 in the treasury.

Small maps, the research needs less total science to make a breakthrough -- yet we have a normal-map kind of civ going here, with tons of cities cranking the growth curve, and with the rushed Pyramids and FP, not even harsh corruption is much slowing us down as yet. So our research rate is ahead of the curve, and we neither need the GL nor do we need to stop the AI's from grabbing it. It's a nice cultural item, but so is the Chapel. The GL is a wash. So I started Great Wall, to grab that (because we can, and it fits nicely with the theme of our civ here). I settled the last two spots on our mainland, and grabbed the "Isle of the Verses" before the Iro's could. I set up a naval blockade across the narrows between our islands, and have been postponing aqueducts in favor of training more troops.

The Great Wall may seem like a useless wonder, but it DOES double the effect of walls, which are ultra-cheap to build for a military civ, and lasts until metallurgy. It's not a bad wonder to have for a scattered archipelago empire that would have troubles reinforcing quickly. No need in cities size 7+, but those ones that need aqueducts might improve survival odds if they build a wall. I did so in a couple spots, and set a couple others up so they can build a wall (no need to build troops, as those were provided) and then can whip a temple, harbor, or whatever the next warlord may decide.

Oddly, I inherited the game on 190BC? Did somebody not take all their turns? Did a couple of you count the inherited turn as one of your turns? (It's not). I went ahead and took 12 turns to round us back out to even numbers. The next player will last until 250ad with his ten turns, then the turns will drop to ten years each, and we'll each play 100 years for a while.

It will be necessary to run a deficit until Theology has been researched. How much of a deficit may be variable. With little chance of war until Navigation, we MAY risk missing a golden age entirely, so that's one more reason to build Sistine in Osaka: it's a religious wonder. We may want to have switched to Republic before the wonder is completed, in case it does kick a golden age, we won't waste a turn in anarchy. If that doesn't work, we may have to attack local Iro colonies with Samurai and HOPE.

Racing ahead in tech, instead of pausing to build the GL and ride that out, is certainly a radical shift in the game plan, but this is a small map, and the GL here starting looking overrated to me.

Whale of a Town has some lore to it, something about Silversan waking and mumbling about "giant fish", and pointing in some random direction, and settlers head out that way and lo and behold, there's a healthy society of the Mother's Own Giant Dolphins out there, who sing and moan. Some folks say those whales could be hunted some day, if the town was properly outfitted. Sounds like a plan, but make sure to build a Temple to the Mother in the town first, before any whale hunting takes place.


- Sirian

 

[Carbon_Copy]

When the great and fearsome Silversan slept the Long Sleep for the third and final time, the search began for a new leader (though his honored body has been preserved and lays yet in state inside the palace, as nobody quite trusts the formidable old man to not wake up again), and forthward came a young Osakan to take the throne, claiming to be the heir to the second ruling house of Nippon, the house of Carbon-sama. This caused quite a buzz of curiousity amongst the learned of Japan, as claiming lineage to Carbon-sama the Forgotten (also sometimes called Carbon-sama the Tardy, as it was his delay in sending reinforcements to the town of Osaka that caused it to be taken by the barbaric Egyptian gaijin) is a somewhat dubious honor. His successful retaking of Osaka after his error is all that kept his ruling house from falling into complete dishonor. And while the line of Sirian-san, the Father of Japan and Revealer of the Sacred Verses, and the Shogunate of Charisgawa, avenger of the Sacred Valley (and his great general Tojo) are all known and revered in turn-of-the milennium Nippon, Carbon-sama remained largely unknown except as the first and only ruler of Japan to suffer the dishonor of defeat.

Nonetheless, his claim of lineage was verified by the scholars in Kyoto, and despite the minor objections of the lesser nobility and some grumblings of the people, his claim to the throne was the strongest (the line of Sirian-san appears to have lain dormant or vanished entirely, the lack of a sufficiently fearsome foe has brought the houses of Charisgawa the Shogun into relative disfavor, and the other ruling lines have all diminished during recent times, bad genetic draws in recent history have found many of them without male heirs), and thus a new Emprorer, Carbon-Sama II was crowned.

His first few years were quite peaceful, much like the reign of his forefather. He mainly completed the work started by the great Silversan, and under the prosperous and peaceful new reign, the people rejoiced, to the point that the people in Tokyo greeted the arrival of a newly-mustered regiment of horsemen with celebrations of affection and love for the new Emperor. Carbon II then decided to add some spires to the courtyard of his palace, overlooking the lawn built by his forefather.

The year 150 AD is a year to be remembered by all the Japanese, as in that time two great events happened at once. Firstly, a monotheistic cult of the Great Mother rose to religious dominance in Japan, signalling a religious changing of the guard and the passing away of the old tribal deities. Secondly, and most importantly, however, was the completion of Silver-san's Great Wall, protecting the Sacred Valley forever from all gaijin who would try to claim it. The Imperial scholars, upon poring through the old histories, agree that never before in Nippon's history has the country been so prosperous as it was now, going as far as calling it an "Age of Golden Prosperity". Politically, it caused the growing Republican movement to die still in the womb, for though the philosophers and the ambitious agreed that perhaps a representative form of government was theoretically superior, nobody wanted to do anything to disrupt the reign of the House of Carbon-Sama the Golden.

While all this was going on in the Sacred Valley, in the northern Island provinces Carbon-sama was known as Carbon-sama of the Iron Fist, as he ruthlessly oppressed these far-flung lands to speed their production. For while there was no immediate threat, the gaijin Iroquois settlement on the Island of Many Dots troubled him, and remembering his progenitors' troubles with gaijin, he vowed not to be taken off-guard by foreign devils again. There he sent a handful more workers and a few military regiments that had lain idle in Edo during the protracted peace to connect and shift the balance of power in the region, while his overseers cracked their whips and forced out many civic improvements, though at a great cost of Japanese lives. Even the hallowed Isle of the Verses was not safe from the cracking of the whip, as the idlers and the loafers had dawdled too long on their temple to the Great Mother in the eyes of Carbon-sama.

Turning his eye briefly to monitor the various sorts of gaijin and their uncultured peoples, he heard somewhat troubling news from the ongoing war between the Iroquois and Romans. The Iroquois devils' town of Grand River has changed hands during the fighting and now is possessed by the Roman gaijin. And about the same time Imperial messengers hear more about the Iroquois culture from their colonies to the northeast. This worries Carbon-sama, as he does not want to see Japan becoming a close neighbor of the uncouth gaijin chief Hiawatha should the Romans take adjacent Salamanca.

During the final years of the House of Carbon-sama, there has been a great surge in the formal study of religion, and it is felt that the full truth of Silversan's vision for a Pristine Chapel is about to be realized within the decade. And even as the preliminary excavations for a chapel are begun, the line of Carbon-sama is cut short with the surprising and premature death of Carbon-sama's grandchild before he could produce an heir. In mourning, the people of Japan planted trees in the lawn of Carbon-sama I in memory of the Great Carbon-sama the Golden, who restored his formerly infamous (or even notorious) House to glory and honor.


Okay, here's the scoop:

We're 1 turn away from Theology. I've started a Cathedral in Kyoto as a placeholder (though only one turn into it, I completed a Library in Kyoto on the turn before my last). I believe all the towns in dotland and the Isle of Verses have temples now (i built a temple instead of a granary in green dot since it was stuck at size 2 until i could clear jungle or raise its culture, so I raised the culture first. It's now building a courthouse though you can change it at any time to whatever w/o losing shields since its production sucks so badly).

The Golden Age was begun with the completion of the Great Wall in 150 AD, five turns into my reign. I perhaps should have gone to Republic before that, but I still had a lot of whipping I wanted to do in Dotland while I could. Now that all of our towns are growing culturally, it might be worth wasting a Golden Age turn on anarchy to get better production under Republicanism (or they could all be hopelessly corrupt under any government). I'm glad I don't have to make that choice. As long as we're on this research track, we might even be able to just jump straight to Democracy (with maybe a pit stop in Chivalry for some Samurai or Music Theory for J.S. Bach's).

Also, the Iroquois give me a bad feeling. They lost a city right next to their capital to the Romans, and I can't tell whether Salamanca will fall, and if it does fall, whether the AI will chose to relocate to another mainland city or to one of the settlements near us. We might want to consider war on the Iroquois to rout them off of Dotland (and to perhaps exploit the Romans out of a few more gold for an alliance). In related news, the Romans canceled the RoP agreement for 3g/turn, but I was able to get it back at 2g/turn). The rest of the agreements are still in force, but I don't know for how long.

Taking a look at the histogram, we're kicking butt and taking names in all the categories. Methinks that this game is all over except for the shouting. Here's hoping for more good times ahead, Charis.

 

[Carbon_Copy]

I forgot that the chapel was supposed to go into Osaka instead of Kyoto. It doesn't make a difference, as Osaka still has got quite a long ways to go on that palace it's building, and Kyoto could still use a cathedral.

As for what I did with the workers during my turn, I did a lot of road building. I got the two tundra paradise cities connected to the roads, and in Dotland White Dot got connected to Yellow Dot and a slightly augmented team of three workers is churning away in the mountains towards Yokohama and eventually Green Dot. On the mainland I managed to connect the rest of the luxuries to roads, though they're all redundant ones, I can't remember if we can trade them or not until there are roads built on them. In any case, it might be a while until we can trade those away as we seem to lack the appropriate trade routes.

 

[Zed-F]

Some comments:

- We're already getting to the point where we want to be ultra-stingy in what techs we give to the AI empires, if any. We could easily bust open a big tech lead if we go directly for Education followed by Banking and Democracy and/or Economics.
- The alternative after we get Education (and probably Banking, need to fund the army) would be to get Navigation, build Magellan's, get Chivalry, and start pumping out Samauri & Caravels... but odds are the others will all have Knights by then anyway. Maybe not in quantity, but enough to slow us down to the point where a sea-borne invasion would probably be impractical.
- Is there even anything worthwhile attacking, other than the pathetic local Iro colonies? Corruption effects will be brutal on the other continents. We might need to go to Democracy just to get any kind of reasonable use out of foreign colonies, and hence before we start thinking about building up for an offensive war. Unless Republic is better at squelching corruption than I expect, the only way I see us getting into a wartime situation before Democracy is if the Iroquois get pissed off at us, or we decide to take out their nearby colonies.
- If the Iroquois capital does come out our way, we shouldn't worry too much about wiping out their local colonies. Their mainland colonies will become hopelessly corrupted if that happens; we should just be able to beef up our military a tad and take over their local colonies (capital last) while Rome (or whoever) wipes them out on their mainland. Failing that, Mauch Chunk (what kind of a name is that!?!) should culture-flip to us anyway.

 

[Ionpure]

Very nice to start the working day with a cup of coffee and those great storys of Sirian an Carbon Copy

Looking forward to check the savegames tonight.

... back to work-mode

 

[Charis]

I'll be able to play this tonight, should be a quiet turn, but the question of the hour is, what is the next path. I'm leaning more toward the Education, Bach's, Democracy route, and tech rush to a cultural (or early space) victory. While the Samurai are great units, trying to get enough overseas for a decisive advantage seems impractical, and as pointed out, what do we gain?? I'm thinking more that we have all the land we ever need (except for the doomed-to-flip Chauk) and no is going to have any chance, ever, of taking us on in war. (If they do however, they can expect a fierce, fierce, retaliation.)

That's just my prelim thought, I'll look closer tonight, and see if others chime in.
Charis

 

[Zed-F]

I'd rather hold off on the decision as to what victory path to pursue for a bit. Right now it looks like we could pretty much pick whatever we want. We probably won't be able to make good use of Samurai, unfortunately, but one possible alternative to space/cultural would be to zip up to Democracy/Bach's/Adam Smith's, get Chivalry & start cranking out Samurai & Caravels, get Leonardo's, get Magnetism and Military Traditions, upgrade everything, and blitzkrieg the world for a Domination victory. There's no way they'll have anything better than musketmen (at best) by then, and we could easily build up a massive army by the time we get Military Traditions.

Regardless, it all starts with going towards Democracy/Bach's/Adam Smith's. We should probably wait and see what the state of the AI empires is when we get those before we make a decision.

Even if we don't go for a Domination win, I'd like to make some use of our Militaristic attribute, so as to potentially get some Great Leaders going. For instance, one thing we could potentially do is conquer some cities and then sell them back, to drain the AI of cash & keep them focussed on military rather than science/economy, or go on pillaging & slave capturing expeditions -- once we can get to them in the first place, of course. Or else we could just wait for Privateers...

 

[Charis]

The year was 250 AD, and it was a glorious time for the Empire of Japan.
The hearts of the people were full of faith, their bellies full of rice,
and their barracks full of strong warriors. A golden age had truly begun.
Sadly, there was a dispute for power, and the mighty Carbon-sama was displaced.
That vicious leader, he who has no name, was spoken against by the prophets.
Anarchy arose! Yet, with the guidance of the verses, anarchy had no foothold,
and Charisan, descendent of the great and mighty Charisgawa, was chosen
unanimouisly to lead the great people of Japan.

250 AD (0) - The last turn for despotism, as we learned the secrets of theology.
While we had the chance, whipped a harbor in Whale town. (And next turn a
Cathedral in Sasuma)

260 AD (1) - The arrival of Theology renders the old ways of the Oracle in Thebes
obsolete (much like their civilization.) This is what finally kicks off the
anarchy.

270 AD (2) - The anarchy is over as soon as it begins! We're now a Republic,
and seeing a nice increase in production, compounded by the Golden Age.
All across the land, people are self-motivated to push production. Although
Feudalism is tempting to head to Samurai, Education is chosing, towards Bach
and democracy.

280 AD (3) - Osaka is due for Sistine in 6 turns. Minor worker movement, and
careful watching of shields, production, science, and happiness. The taste
that anarchy left in our mouths calls for a time of precise leadership in
this Golden Age.

290 AD (4) - The Iroqouis are building the Great Library, we are told. We will
likely let them have it, unless we run out of improvements to make in a city
and are still in the Golden era. Several cathedrals and libraries are finished,
and cultural borders expand, putting more pressure on Mauch Chunk.

300 AD (5) - The arrogant Romans want an alliance vs the Iroquis. We tell the
gaijin that the Verses are not aligned with their quest for conquest. We show
them our map, full of bright yellow and white dots, and tell them where,
one day, it is fortold, we will settle. Caesar is dismayed to see several
dots in his homeland. The Palace is expanded as well.

310 AD (6) - We discover the secrets of education, and press for...
Music Theory! A wonder which goes along with religious civs and golden ages,
and which decreases discontent by two per city on the great continent.
We even find a new source of iron, in the South just outside of Matsuyama.

320 AD (7) - More aqueducts finished, more cathedrals started. With three turns
left to learn Music Theory, Kyoto switches from marketplace to a University
placeholder, and we can switch to Bach's just before it completes.

330 AD (8) - The people want to read more, and some library projects begun.

340 AD (9) - The people of Osaka complete the Sistene chapel! This glorious
news spreads throughout the Valley like a sacred bonfire, and the people are
just delighted!! Osaka starts a University, to study Theology.

With the Chapel in place, and the golden age in full swing, Charisan decides
it is a time to celebrate. He allows, in some cities that have never seen them,
dancers and entertainers. He runs at no federal luxury spending, the people
are so happy. (This switch saved almost 30 gold per turn vs 10% luxuries)
The only places that needed the entertainment, btw, were those building
cathedrals - they're just a few turns away from that.

350 AD (10) - ROmans and Iroqouis sign a peace treaty. We learn Music Theory,
and Kyoto takes up the building of a *great* cathedral, the likes of which
has never been seen! We choose Astronomy, not for the ships, but due to the
rumor of a great Observatory by Copernicus! Charisan is QUITE happy on his
own island and has no interest whatsoever in exploring lesser gaijin lands.
(Should the next king differ, we just started this turn, so he can switch
without penalty.) Kyoto switches and will complete Bach's in 14 turns (if
the Golden Age holds out). Thebes is put on Palace placeholder, but the next
leader may prefer not to do this, and could build a Colliseum in Thebes instead.

Charisan gets reports back from his envoys, who give our map as a love token,
who find out we have a two tech lead on everyone, and equal military to all
(except Iroqouis, who we exceed.) That's sad, as we've spent not a dime on
military in so many years Charisan cannot remember.

Best wishes to the next leader, whomsoever the Verses may choose...

 

[Zed-F]

I'm up next but I'm not sure when I'll be able to get my turn in. Will let you know...

 

[Zed-F]

Can't sleep, so I guess I'll take my turn now...

During the time between 350 AD and 450 AD, Japan's Senate came under the leadership of Zedrick II the Somnambulent, so named because it was often said by later rulers that he did nothing but sleep through his term of office. He was afforded this luxury on the basis of the admirable work done by the previous several rulers, such that nothing needed substantial changes during his term, and by the continued isolation of Japan from the various petty conflicts that occurred across the rest of the known world.

360 AD: Nagasaki builds Cathedral & starts Library, Greece declares war on Romans

380 AD: Tokyo completes Cathedral & starts Library, Kagoshima completes Library & starts Harbour, Nagoya completes Cathedral & starts Library

390 AD: Astronomy discovered & start research on Banking, Thebes changes from Palace to Copernicus Observatory

400 AD: Golden Age ends, Whale of a Town completes Library & starts Aqueduct

410 AD: Osaka completes Cathedral & starts Library, Edo completes aqueduct & starts Cathedral

420 AD: Kagoshima completes Harbour & starts Marketplace, Nara completes aqueduct & starts Cathedral, Matsuyama completes Harbour & starts Courthouse.

440 AD: Nagasaki builds Library & starts Harbour, Banking is discovered and research changed to Printing Press. Zedrick II wakes up from his morning-noon-afternoon nap one day and notices that the treasury is running low and has fallen below 200 gold; all those Cathedrals are expensive! Since we still can't trade our surplus luxuries with anyone, there's no real way to make money off the other Civs yet (short of selling them tech, which is unlikely,) Zedrick reduces the science rate from 70% to 40% to get some positive cash flow going again. Need more Marketplaces in the smaller towns and Banks in the larger cities.

450 AD: Nagoya completes a Library & starts a Marketplace. As Zedrick's term of office ends, he takes a quick look at the world political situation; it looks like the Romans are doing fairly well in their wars against the Greeks and Iroquois, having taken Salamanca (and the Great Lighthouse) as well as Sparta. A Roman galley is spotted off the west coast of Japan, but is studiously ignored by the people.

Advice from Zedrick to the next leader -- pretty smooth sailing, though keep an eye on the cash flow with an eye towards bumping science back up when possible. Also keep an eye on cities that have recently built aqueducts (like Edo, for instance) that may be growing past size 6 but have not yet built Cathedrals; some worker management may be needed to prevent unrest. The same applies in the island colonies, which were pretty much left to their own devices during Zedrick's term of office.

 

[Carbon_Copy]

Now that Rome has the lighthouse and not the Iros, I think the time is ripe for the next ruler to kick the Iroquois out of this hemisphere, since they can't send any sort of reinforcements.

And now that we have Astronomy, we can safely use sea squares as well, right?

If so, then we should have what passes for a sea route to the other countries (or at least to Rome), unless the ability to reach the other party's ports needs to be bilateral. I've never ever been able to figure out exactly what it was that creates "sea routes" to other civs.

 

[Zed-F]

The Iro capital is in Allegheny, on their main continent. So, yes they can't really retaliate. OTOH, we don't have much of a military to hit them with either. Are they worth the bother? Up to the next leader (Jaffa I believe.) If we still have any swordsmen around, they're expendable...

As for trade routes, nope, don't have them -- I would have been happy to trade some luxuries for cash but no can do. We have 3 ocean (not just sea) squares between us & the other main continents; hence we need Magnetism. Trade routes don't benefit from the Lighthouse or Magellan's either.

EDIT: Someone in another thread suggested Navigation would also let us trade over Ocean squares; I checked it out and it allows both that and Caravels to travel the ocean, so if we really want trade we could check that out... might be good to deplete the AI of their cash & bolster ours. I vote we go for it.

EDIT: Incidentally, speaking of trading, I neglected to shop Republic around to the 2 civs that don't yet have it. Since the other 2 AI civs already do, the next leader might want to try to get some cash for it.

Everyone please post your opinion as to whether you would prefer to go towards a cultural/tech victory or a Domination/Sole Survivor victory... we will be getting Democracy soon and need to start deciding how much production to switch from city improvements to military. Are we building a defensive/harrassing military force or an army large enough that, after upgrades, it can take on the world? We will probably need to come to a consensus in the next 10-20 turns so get your votes in now!

Charis: I'm assuming you'd still prefer a cultural victory.
Zed: I'm leaning towards blitzkrieg while still working toward a long-term cultural victory. That would mean our core cities (Kyoto, Osaka, Thebes, ?) would primarily focus on Wonders and city improvements in general while secondary coastal cities like Tokyo would build up some cultural improvements then concentrate on military. It seems to me that all we need to do to win a cultural/space victory is keep building city improvements and hit next turn for about 1000 years, as we're pretty much unassailable so long as we don't completely neglect military -- too easy, and we won't learn as much.

 

[Sirian]

There's no way this game will last to a cultural victory. Spaceship, maybe. The followers of the Second Prophet, Carbon the Liberator, will surely organize their own expeditionary force at some point, and justify it with references to the Two Hands, even as religious leaders build their cathedrals and great projects.

I vote for war. When have any of you seen this kind of production and territorial lead at this point? Two ancient leaders put us over the top. We can finish this thing early, without even doing the whip-o-rama loophole that invariably identifies early conquest games. Yes, we need navigation, for the ability to cross the ocean, and we need feudalism to train our hordes of samurai. We would have to devote the whole empire to the cause, but samurai are fast units, meaning they don't much die against most foes. Retreat, heal up, go at it again. That sort of war would take long enough for most everyone in the rotation to get a taste of it.

Of course, waiting won't really hurt us. We collectively beat this map by the end of the first round and Egypt's demise, the rest is mainly a matter of deciding our path to victory and enjoying the ride. We could wait and build more infrastructure, which is what I would do on a larger map, but I smell blood. ... Don't you?



If we can plunk down nine or twelve samurai onto the shores of the gaijen at one time, that will be all She wrote.


- Sirian

 

[Zed-F]

If we go for an immediate Domination victory using Samurai we may not need nor want Democracy, as the war will be relatively long and war weariness will become a factor, and we really don't need enhanced worker speed since we don't have a big rail net to build. In that event we might want to switch right away to Navigation.

I still think we ought to keep Kyoto, Osaka, and Thebes concentrated on development before military, to ensure our finances and research efforts remain healthy. Once we get to the bottom half of the tech tree there really isn't anything in the way of improvements or Wonders (besides Leonardo's Workshop) that we might want to build, so there will be plenty of time to build military then. Kyoto and Thebes just need Universities and Banks to be in good shape, while Osaka has a bit further to go. As far as the coastal cities go, in my view they should all at least have Aqueducts, Cathedrals, Marketplaces, maybe Libraries, and of course Barracks and Harbours, before they start on military units. Several of them are close to being in this position, and Izumo is already building a University, which we should switch to a Bank (more useful and done sooner) if we decide to go military.

The concept of building up a massive, irresistable army of Cavalry, and taking the world in one fell swoop, appeals to me... but I can smell blood too.

 

[Charis]

The followers of Charis are this time divided...

Charisgawa, father of Tojo, is convinced that Samurai should bring swift and potent retribution to all who do not pay homage to the verses!

Charisan thinks that our mission is to flourish in, and protect the valley, and let others share in that golden vision by culturally persuading them.

I think we have our choice. The more 'fun' one will be to acknowledge the smell of blood in the air and go for it. Alas, the ocean and the need for Navigation is not good. The unit we would want to do this with, the Samurai, has a major advantage pre-Pikeman. Once they get Musketmen, the next advantage as large is Cavalry. 8-\ I would really hate to see us do THIS well early, then never see Samurai enter glorious battle. So what we must do, do quickly. Techwise, beeline Feudalism, Chivalry, Navigation, then crank out a dozen Samurai and four Caravel.
If the city with the Great Lighthouse, Salamance, were closer, we could cross fingers and sail across ocean to take it quickly.

Charis